Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?
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1 Gospel with dispensational administrations.
We/humans are ALL sinners, deserving a sovereign creator God's heavenly LAWS required payment/judgment for transgression = DEATH!
Gospel = Good news. What's the good news? God via his loving merciful grace, has provided sinners a way/path to a full pardon.
God, 1st revealed his plan of redemption/sin forgiveness/reconciliation to Adam & Eve. When he covered them with/in sacrificed animal skins (Gen 3:21).
Later on Mt Moriah, God, reveals his plan of redemption/sin forgiveness/reconciliation to Abraham. Abraham names the place: Jehovahjireh
Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
(NOTE: Jehovahjireh means = The Lord Will Provide. Ok, PROVIDE what? A SACRIFICE! The promised seed/Christ: = Is the redemptive SACRIFICE/Atonement!)
Next God calls out a people, the Nation of Israel. He gives them the LAW (works required) a sacrificial system (to cover "NOT" remove sin) and promised them a King (Messiah) that would provide thru faith (required in every dispensational administration) complete sin redemption/remission/forgiveness/removal/pardon from their sins. This gospel's focus was faith in the identity of the promised coming Messiah & to a people (Israel) God had set apart.
BTW: There were NO gentiles on Mt Sinai when Moses gives the law. John the Baptist, baptizes NO gentiles in the wilderness. NO gentiles receive the Holy Spirit on the Temple Mt on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. There are NO gentiles members in/of the early church in Jerusalem.
It's not until after Israel rejects & has their long promised Messiah killed & Christ is resurrected (Father's stamp, sin's required wage received & accepted).
The risen Christ calls out Paul & sends him to preach the gospel/good news to gentiles. Here faith is to be place in Christ's death, burial & resurrection.
Eph 2:
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(MY NOTE: Recap Vs 11 until after sins payment & resurrection uncircumcision/gentiles, Vs 12 were exempt from God's covenants of promise, having no hope & were lost without God.)
In short: Abraham had to have FAITH that God would later provide a sin savior.
Israel had to have FAITH that Jesus was the promised sin savior (they had a temporary system for dealing with sin. Jesus was dwelling with them & didn't have to die. Christ's coming physical Kingdom could have begun then. Would gentiles have be forever lost? Only God knows.
Today a person must acknowledge there is a sovereign creator God (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Israel ALL knew God) the person must also understand & acknowledge they have sinned against a sovereign creator God's heavenly laws & are in need if a savior. Place their FAITH in Christ's sin atoning death, burial & resurrection.
No matter the dispensational administration a person needed to have FAITH in God to provide a means of sin redemption/remission/forgiveness/removal/pardon.
Jesus the Christ is that provision
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men
Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Amen
seeing that Jesus "opened the hearts" of His disciples to see, understand & believe, showing them how from Moses through the writings and all the prophets, they testified of Him and how He must suffer and enter His glory, how do you figure Jesus interprets scripture?
He Himself is the Author of scripture; He's God. so it's kind of more relevant how Jesus views it than how you or i or any other human views it.
i.e. it does not **change** but the perception of it does, and the hidden thing in it becomes seen.
i.e. there is only one gospel, and it's been there the whole time, and you did not comprehend it, and the fact of you not seeing it did not make it a different thing.
tell me about what the veil obscures
Just curious on your thoughts...why the two different terms? I know what flaky commentaries say. What do you say? Things that are different are not the same.
7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
i don't. i generally don't ever read commentaries.
i have a Scoffield KJV -- i have no idea what Scoffield says. i appreciate the maps and cross references tho
that's a really good question. i mean that
and my thoughts ((no idea if commentators think the same)) are that "of the ..." isn't what the text actually says.
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the scripture isn't saying there's a different gospel of the Jews than there is of the Gentiles.
the scripture is using a definite article indicating it's not just any gospel but THE GOSPEL
this is the same as The Angel of the LORD compared to 'an' angel of the LORD. the same as 'Adam' compared to any man in general ((because the word Adam is the same word for man)).
i guess essentially i'm saying kjv isn't the perfect English translation. the Greek doesn't directly translate to our language - there's a reason God chose Greek & Hebrew, and there's a reason that the tower of Babel took place and was recorded for us. i'm not saying you can't understand this in the KJV version of an English rendition of the actual language God gave scripture in; i'd be saying that the real sense of the passage is understood through knowing other things in scripture. because the Bible is not a disjointed set of texts; it's one text: it's one revelation of God, given in parts, making an whole. in my opinion.
so you can read "gospel of blah blah" and "gospel of other blah blah" and you can, if you don't have your mind opened to God, think that this means God has a different salvations. and this is like a a parable in the ear of what who do not has. even what they have is taken away. or you can read "gospel of yadda yadda" and "gospel of other yadda yadda" and you can remember and understand what else is written, that God is Salvation and there is no other, that there is no name but Jesus by which anyone can be saved, and you can put 2 and 2 together and know that this isn't saying God speaks with a forked tongue. and this is like a parable in the ear of one who has - more will be given.
in my opinion.
like i said, this is a good question. this is a better question than "is Jesus preaching the same thing Paul is preaching" -- in my opinion that's a dumb question. if Paul is speaking by the Spirit of course he's not saying something different than Jesus. Christ is God. the Spirit is God. the Spirit breathes all scripture. God isn't divided and God isn't self-contradictory.
the question isn't 'are there two gospels'
the question is why does the scripture say what it says? why does God hide Himself.
those are my thoughts, my friend. take them for what they're worth -- probably not much lol
Grace And Peace, Precious friend. Thanks - I resemble that remark!
Hopefully my ignorance changes soon, beings how I am a life-long
professional student.
I believe that God Has ONE "General Purpose/Plan" = "save all mankind,"
But, Has TWO Different "Programs": Prophecy And The Mystery With
The Following:
How is this not TWO Different "gospels" with Clearly delineated Distinctions?:
{details?}:
(1) TWO Different names? the "gospel of the kingdom" {taught By CHRIST on earth! = "The Gospel Of GRACE" {Revealed By CHRIST From Heaven}?
(2) TWO Different requirements? "faith + works" = "GRACE Through faith"?
(3) Different numbers of baptismS? "TWO =water + WITH The Spirit" =
........................................................................ "ONE BY The ONE Spirit!"???
IF I remain in my ignorance, then so be it. Appreciate Great Discussion...
Jesus death and resurrection was prophesied in the ot.
That does not mean the 11 were taught the mystery to be revealed to Paul later.
The NLT is rather succinct about this answer. Check it out . . .
John 5:39 NLT - "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!"
Neither do I. That's a great way to learn apostasy. The Bible is clear that we should depend upon the instruction of the Lord first and foremost.
because their minds & hearts were not fully unveiled at one time to it does it make it a different thing they believed?
i don't think so. i agree there is progressive revelation in the Bible, but i don't think progressive revelation = multiple gospels.
i do analysis for a living. literally my job title is "analyst" -- when i have a problem to work on, i don't consider it a different problem as my understanding of the extent & the root causes of the problem become more clear to me through increasing knowledge. very often i have 3 or 5 'problems' that all turn out to have one cause. i consider that one problem with 4 or so expressions.
i don't know & frankly don't care if that makes me a 'covenant' or 'new covenant' or whatever kind of theologian. it's just what i think is the truth, what the Bible teaches, how Jesus Himself taught and spoke of the scripture. i think He spoke of all of the scripture and all of time as though there is exactly one gospel: Himself.
True. But to maintain biblical balance, let's not forget that the Lord gives evangelists. pastors, and teachers to the churches for their edification.
Regarding commentaries, they should all be consulted with the caveat that the commentator may be in error in certain points. Most commentators are.
That's exactly what Jesus said:
And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)