Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.
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Here's the context for v.19
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
v.18 addresses Christ's crucifixion.
v.19 addresses what Christ did AFTER His resurrection (made alive in the Spirit). This does NOT, as you claim from your old post, refer to His preaching to anyone during Noah's generation.
It is very clear that "after being made alive (resurrection) He WENT and MADE proclamation to the spirits".
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
v.18 addresses Christ's crucifixion.
v.19 addresses what Christ did AFTER His resurrection (made alive in the Spirit). This does NOT, as you claim from your old post, refer to His preaching to anyone during Noah's generation.
It is very clear that "after being made alive (resurrection) He WENT and MADE proclamation to the spirits".
Well, for starters...
... by their seeing the phrase "the day of the Lord" (v.2) as speaking of His Second Coming (or commencing at that point), rather than acknowledging that Paul said it would be ARRIVING just like Jesus had referred to, when He spoke of "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" but Paul is speaking of the INITIAL MOMENT of its arrival ["PANG"] (aka the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" at the START of the 7-yr trib, 2Th2:8a/9a [/Dan9:27a(26b)], aka SEAL #1 (Rev6:2), at the START of the 7-yr trib (not at its MIDDLE [2:4], nor at its END [2Th2:8b])...
...and then by their bypassing that verse, in order to SKIP BACK OVER AND PAST v.2, when ascertaining what v.3a's "that day" is speaking of... thus completely missing what it is that Paul is actually conveying here in this context.
... by their seeing the phrase "the day of the Lord" (v.2) as speaking of His Second Coming (or commencing at that point), rather than acknowledging that Paul said it would be ARRIVING just like Jesus had referred to, when He spoke of "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" but Paul is speaking of the INITIAL MOMENT of its arrival ["PANG"] (aka the ARRIVAL of "the man of sin" at the START of the 7-yr trib, 2Th2:8a/9a [/Dan9:27a(26b)], aka SEAL #1 (Rev6:2), at the START of the 7-yr trib (not at its MIDDLE [2:4], nor at its END [2Th2:8b])...
...and then by their bypassing that verse, in order to SKIP BACK OVER AND PAST v.2, when ascertaining what v.3a's "that day" is speaking of... thus completely missing what it is that Paul is actually conveying here in this context.
No.
You think He could not tell them Himself later that same evening when He would be seeing them, IF He were referring to THAT (40-day later thing)?
He wasn't referring to that. (And all references to that [Acts 1 VISIBLE ascension event] are in the "passive," that I recall.)
No... He said to her, "[YOU] GO... SAY UNTO THEM, I ASCEND [active]"... And some time after she left to "GO" do that, He did that very thing! ON FIRSTFRUIT! (THAT VERY DAY)
["The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk." Ex23:19 and 34:26]
You think He could not tell them Himself later that same evening when He would be seeing them, IF He were referring to THAT (40-day later thing)?
He wasn't referring to that. (And all references to that [Acts 1 VISIBLE ascension event] are in the "passive," that I recall.)
No... He said to her, "[YOU] GO... SAY UNTO THEM, I ASCEND [active]"... And some time after she left to "GO" do that, He did that very thing! ON FIRSTFRUIT! (THAT VERY DAY)
["The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk." Ex23:19 and 34:26]
No.
The PRE-trib view is that MORE ppl come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... (so how could they ALL have been "RAPTURED". No.)
Then... I just made abundant long posts about THOSE who do come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (as well as the OT saints' ) "resurrection" and what Jesus said pertaining to those...
I'm beginning to suspect you're being facetious... [it's ringing in my ears this very minute...
]
...gotta run...
The PRE-trib view is that MORE ppl come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... (so how could they ALL have been "RAPTURED". No.)
Then... I just made abundant long posts about THOSE who do come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (as well as the OT saints' ) "resurrection" and what Jesus said pertaining to those...
I'm beginning to suspect you're being facetious... [it's ringing in my ears this very minute...
]...gotta run...
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You don't understand what I am saying? the rapture of the Body of Christ was a mystery hidden in God until it was revealed by the apostle Paul.
So naturally you won't find it in Jesus's words during the 4 Gospels. Jesus being God knows how to hide something from the foundation of the world (Ephesians 3:9)
So naturally you won't find it in Jesus's words during the 4 Gospels. Jesus being God knows how to hide something from the foundation of the world (Ephesians 3:9)
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FreeGrace2 said:
What? Of course the pre-trib view is that Jesus glorifies all believers and then takes them back to heaven.
Of course it is. The pre-trib view is that the church will be raptured and taken to heaven. How can you say no?
You are just dodging the issue. Because you know that there are no verses that indicate that Jesus glorifies believers and then takes them back to heaven.
This isn't any problem for my (the Bible's) view. There is NO pre-trib anything. So those who come to faith and survive the Trib will be among "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord". That's why I believe all believers, dead or alive, will be glorified at the SECOND coming of the Lord.
What? Of course the pre-trib view is that Jesus glorifies all believers and then takes them back to heaven.
Of course it is. The pre-trib view is that the church will be raptured and taken to heaven. How can you say no?
You are just dodging the issue. Because you know that there are no verses that indicate that Jesus glorifies believers and then takes them back to heaven.
This isn't any problem for my (the Bible's) view. There is NO pre-trib anything. So those who come to faith and survive the Trib will be among "we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord". That's why I believe all believers, dead or alive, will be glorified at the SECOND coming of the Lord.
I'm beginning to suspect you're being facetious... [it's ringing in my ears this very minute... ]
I can't help your tinnitus, but you have no reason at all to suspect that I'm being facetious.
Ooh, tinnitus AND the runs. I do sympathize.
]I can't help your tinnitus, but you have no reason at all to suspect that I'm being facetious.
Ooh, tinnitus AND the runs. I do sympathize.
Rather, it seems you haven't understood me.
Did I say otherwise? I quoted from Matt 24, which are Jesus' own words about the "gathering of the elect" at the Second Advent.
Well then, it seems you've already cut Matt 24 out of your Bible. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Eph 3:9 - and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
So, this is your support for the rapture being a mystery??
The mystery that Paul spoke of was in regard to salvation offered to Gentiles. The Jews totally missed what the OT prophets had said.
Regardless, if you believe that Jesus will rapture believers before the Tribulation, glorify them, and then take them back to heaven, what evidence do you have for that from Scripture?
Thanks.
Did I say otherwise? I quoted from Matt 24, which are Jesus' own words about the "gathering of the elect" at the Second Advent.
Well then, it seems you've already cut Matt 24 out of your Bible. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Eph 3:9 - and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
So, this is your support for the rapture being a mystery??
The mystery that Paul spoke of was in regard to salvation offered to Gentiles. The Jews totally missed what the OT prophets had said.
Regardless, if you believe that Jesus will rapture believers before the Tribulation, glorify them, and then take them back to heaven, what evidence do you have for that from Scripture?
Thanks.
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