PERSEVERANCE ON MARS - SEARCHING FOR LIFE OR DEATH OF A CIVILIZATION?

[ChoirLoft]

The newest Mars probe, named Perseverance, landed Thursday in Jezero Crater.

Jezero is located in the Isidis Basin or Isidis Planitia depending upon which map you refer to. The Isidis Basin is thought to have been a large lake or sea. Jezero Crater may have been part of that sea.

Examined alone Jezero Crater measures about thirty miles in diameter - the same size in volume as the Sea of Galilee. Large rivers spilled water into the area. The landing site of Perseverance is squarely in the middle of what was once a river delta.

Surface coordinates for the exact landing site are: 18.38 degrees north and 77.58 degrees east.

The larger area containing Isidis Planitia is called Syrtis Major, which can be found on most maps of Mars. The Jezero landing site is in the northeast corner of Syrtis Major. Syrtis Major is a large dark area visible from Earth via telescope. It’s on the opposite side of the planet from the large east west canyon known as Valles Marineris and quite close to Mars’ equator.

Perseverance’ landing site is also in close proximity to the landing site of UK's Beagle, which landed on Christmas Day in 2003. The European Space Agency’s Mars Express studied this area as well.

With Mars’ entire planetary surface to choose from, why are these international space agencies focusing their limited resources on the same spot within a few miles of each other?

The progression of Mars lander spacecraft is interesting.

In 1976 the 2 Viking landers didn’t move around. They stayed in the place where they landed and used a kind of scoop to retrieve surface dirt for examination. When it was discovered the surface soil of Mars was uniformly radioactive a new family of spacecraft were dispatched to the Red Planet with drilling mechanisms to examine underlying soil samples or to drill into rocks to obtain samples beneath the radioactive surface.

The radioactive isotope Xenon 129 is found extensively on the surface of Mars. It is this component of meteors found on earth that tell scientists the rock originated from the Red Planet.

Xenon 129 occurs nowhere in nature, but is created as a result of a nuclear explosion. There are only two places in the solar system where this isotope is found - on earth in limited quantities and on Mars everywhere.

The surface dirt and dust our spacecraft have to examine on Mars is contaminated with Xenon 129, which is why they have to drill through it to get a clean sample.

There are a LOT of really odd things going on with the Red Planet. This is just one of them.

What impact do these discoveries have upon the gospel? It's worth considering. Those that oppose the gospel consider it seriously.

So should we.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Runningman]

The newest Mars probe, named Perseverance, landed Thursday in Jezero Crater.

Jezero is located in the Isidis Basin or Isidis Planitia depending upon which map you refer to. The Isidis Basin is thought to have been a large lake or sea. Jezero Crater may have been part of that sea.

Examined alone Jezero Crater measures about thirty miles in diameter - the same size in volume as the Sea of Galilee. Large rivers spilled water into the area. The landing site of Perseverance is squarely in the middle of what was once a river delta.

Surface coordinates for the exact landing site are: 18.38 degrees north and 77.58 degrees east.

The larger area containing Isidis Planitia is called Syrtis Major, which can be found on most maps of Mars. The Jezero landing site is in the northeast corner of Syrtis Major. Syrtis Major is a large dark area visible from Earth via telescope. It’s on the opposite side of the planet from the large east west canyon known as Valles Marineris and quite close to Mars’ equator.

Perseverance’ landing site is also in close proximity to the landing site of UK's Beagle, which landed on Christmas Day in 2003. The European Space Agency’s Mars Express studied this area as well.

With Mars’ entire planetary surface to choose from, why are these international space agencies focusing their limited resources on the same spot within a few miles of each other?

The progression of Mars lander spacecraft is interesting.

In 1976 the 2 Viking landers didn’t move around. They stayed in the place where they landed and used a kind of scoop to retrieve surface dirt for examination. When it was discovered the surface soil of Mars was uniformly radioactive a new family of spacecraft were dispatched to the Red Planet with drilling mechanisms to examine underlying soil samples or to drill into rocks to obtain samples beneath the radioactive surface.

The radioactive isotope Xenon 129 is found extensively on the surface of Mars. It is this component of meteors found on earth that tell scientists the rock originated from the Red Planet.

Xenon 129 occurs nowhere in nature, but is created as a result of a nuclear explosion. There are only two places in the solar system where this isotope is found - on earth in limited quantities and on Mars everywhere.

The surface dirt and dust our spacecraft have to examine on Mars is contaminated with Xenon 129, which is why they have to drill through it to get a clean sample.

There are a LOT of really odd things going on with the Red Planet. This is just one of them.

What impact do these discoveries have upon the gospel? It's worth considering. Those that oppose the gospel consider it seriously.

So should we.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Does the Bible make a problem out of life either having existed or currently existist outside of earth? If yes, which verses describe that? I have heard people say it's a problem, but never really understood why myself. Thanks.

 

[tanakh]

Does the Bible make a problem out of life either having existed or currently existist outside of earth? If yes, which verses describe that? I have heard people say it's a problem, but never really understood why myself. Thanks.

I cant understand where he problem is either. The Bible teaches that life exists outside the Earth now
and has done so since ''the beginning'' which is an interesting subject in itself. The Bible doesn't actually tell us when creation started but the following verses are of special interest

In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth . And the Earth was without form and void
and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters
And God said let there be light and there was light . And God saw the light that it was Good and God divided the light from the darkness. And God divided the light from the darkness And the evening and the were the first day.

Genesis 1 v 1-5

For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens God himself that formed the earth he hath established it he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited I am the Lord and there is none
else

Isaiah 45 v 18

If you compare these two passages in the belief that the Bible doesn't contradict itself and that both Moses and Isaiah were used by God then you could come to the conclusion that creation didn't start with Adam Eve and Eden but that was a recreation that followed a huge universal battle between Light and darkness. Good and Evil

 

[DWR]

Waste of money and brain power and for what?
People are hungry, cold, sick, unemployed, and homeless and we spend money on such foolishness.
The people who authorize such a waste of money should join the homeless, cold, and hungry and stay with them until the problem is solved.
Now if you want to send all these people that waste money on such foolishness on a one way trip to Mars, I might consider spending that money.

 

[tanakh]

Waste of money and brain power and for what?
People are hungry, cold, sick, unemployed, and homeless and we spend money on such foolishness.
The people who authorize such a waste of money should join the homeless, cold, and hungry and stay with them until the problem is solved.
Now if you want to send all these people that waste money on such foolishness on a one way trip to Mars, I might consider spending that money.

You have a point but if the money wasn't spent on this it would probably have been spent on
building bigger and better weapons. Given the choice I know which I would choose. Its Human nature to explore and expand our knowledge. I expect some people said much the same thing when Columbus set sail. When you consider the worries about our environment making the many desolate places here more productive and habitable would be a sensible move.

 

[Lanolin]

hmm interesting news..
People have always speculated that Mars once contained water and had life on it. I guess we dont really know, but seems a bit uninhabitable for the monent. Our own planet has serious problems. Were humans planet hopping and leaving behind them ruined planet after ruined planet? It sems the way with land on earth the way people migrated and leaved behind a ruined mess for a better life too.

I wondered if the icecaps did melt would people be able to live on antarctica.

I dont really know where people got all this money from to explore Mars though, and how they name all the landmarks and features. Jacques Cousteu apparently got all the money to explore under the sea and oceans from the oil companies, and also a television deal in america. He had a boat called Calypso that was an old minesweeper, that he leased for One franc.

 

[Lanolin]

The oil companies and energy companies wanted to dump radioactive waste in the oceans, and use them as testing or drilling sites.

 

[Genipher]

hmm interesting news..
People have always speculated that Mars once contained water and had life on it. I guess we dont really know, but seems a bit uninhabitable for the monent. Our own planet has serious problems. Were humans planet hopping and leaving behind them ruined planet after ruined planet? It sems the way with land on earth the way people migrated and leaved behind a ruined mess for a better life too.

I wondered if the icecaps did melt would people be able to live on antarctica.

I dont really know where people got all this money from to explore Mars though, and how they name all the landmarks and features. Jacques Cousteu apparently got all the money to explore under the sea and oceans from the oil companies, and also a television deal in america. He had a boat called Calypso that was an old minesweeper, that he leased for One franc.

Are you speculating that humans planet hopped from Mars to Earth? Because that's not Biblical.

I have thought it might be more worthwhile to figure out how to settle Antarctica than Mars. Probably cheaper, too. lol.

 

[ChoirLoft]

Does the Bible make a problem out of life either having existed or currently existist outside of earth? If yes, which verses describe that? I have heard people say it's a problem, but never really understood why myself. Thanks.

The Bible does not say anything about life beyond Earth. The book focuses upon the fall and redemption of man. That's all it does. Like all good books it's consistent with its theme. It's not about dinosaurs, tectonic plate movement or astronomical observation of the movements of the planets and stars. It's about God's relationship with man.

The problem isn't with the Bible, it's with those who denigrate it, who cast aspersions upon it and those who want to claim falsehoods in its pages where none exist.

This is why I posted my remarks about the Mars lander. There's been ample evidence of life and huge amounts of water existing there for many years of investigation. For me, it's fun to watch and learn new things about it.

A key point of possible contention is the growing body of evidence that Mars once hosted an intelligent well developed civilization and that it was destroyed in a nuclear holocaust. What does that say about God's kindness toward the civilization on Earth? If we take the Bible seriously, we understand that God isn't happy with us - not happy with ust at all. Some people interpret the Bible as hinting Earth will go the same way as Mars - destroyed in nuclear fire.

What does that say about the gospel?

I believe it says that instead of inviting ET to dinner here, we need to invite the Holy Spirit into our hearts as a nation and as a planet.

Unfortunately that doesn't appear to be happening now or any time soon.

that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[ChoirLoft]

hmm interesting news..
People have always speculated that Mars once contained water and had life on it. I guess we dont really know, but seems a bit uninhabitable for the monent. Our own planet has serious problems. Were humans planet hopping and leaving behind them ruined planet after ruined planet? It sems the way with land on earth the way people migrated and leaved behind a ruined mess for a better life too.

I wondered if the icecaps did melt would people be able to live on antarctica.

I dont really know where people got all this money from to explore Mars though, and how they name all the landmarks and features. Jacques Cousteu apparently got all the money to explore under the sea and oceans from the oil companies, and also a television deal in america. He had a boat called Calypso that was an old minesweeper, that he leased for One franc.

Once it was speculated that large bodies of water existed on Mars. That speculation has now ended by reason of evidence for it. Yes, we really DO know. More than uninhabitable, Mars has a layer of radioactive dust on its surface that makes living on the surface impossible. NASA is currently looking at caves and lava tubes as an alternative shelter within which can be constructed pressurized living spaces for astronauts.

According to legends from all over this planet, humans never left Earth. Instead we have been subjected to bombardment from above in the form of meteors and some sort of visitation. The Bible hints at this as does every other human culture.

Your speculation about financial sources for exploration are somewhat vague.

Space exploration arose from the development of ballistic missiles by Germany in the 1940's. At war's end, Russia and America kidnapped German scientists and used them to develop missile technology for weapons systems. America got the chief scientist from the German missile base at Peenemunde. His name was Werner von Braun and he helped develop Americas' Apollo program that got us to the moon. Space exploration arose as a result of weapon development. The first rockets used by NASA to launch astronauts into space were converted military rockets - Redstone, Atlas, etc.

Jacques Cousteu invented the Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus - SCUBA. The equipment allowed humans to swim freely underwater. Cousteu made a fortune from it. Everybody from the military to sports enthusiasts bought his patented SCUBA gear. Some of Cousteu's explorations were subsidized by private corporations, some by the government and some by academic institutions. Oil companies did their own exploration. The US Navy is the biggest proponent of underwater exploration in the world.

What's all this to do with Mars and the gospel?

Mars is apparently the focal point for a lot of strange activity - to this day. According to legend as well as hard evidence, Mars was the source of much evil activity. It did not end well, if we are to accept what we've learned thus far.

The Bible promises the Earth may one day suffer the same fate as our neighbor in space. It's a hard thing to consider especially when we look around and see how much the people of Earth love SIN. Even our churches have enthusiastically embraced it these days.

What is to come for us? Look to Mars and find out. Was the death of Martian civilization any different from what the Bible promises for Earth? It is a chilling idea to consider.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Lanolin]

Are you speculating that humans planet hopped from Mars to Earth? Because that's not Biblical.

I have thought it might be more worthwhile to figure out how to settle Antarctica than Mars. Probably cheaper, too. lol.

well antarctica isnt really that biblical either. Its not Jerusalem. But it is 'to the ends of the earth' I suppose. Even if theres nobody really living there permanently.

I would advise against it though. Mt Erebus crash anyone?

 

[Genipher]

well antarctica isnt really that biblical either. Its not Jerusalem. But it is 'to the ends of the earth' I suppose. Even if theres nobody really living there permanently.

I would advise against it though. Mt Erebus crash anyone?

I meant it's not Biblical to say that the origin story of humans somehow started on Mars and then we somehow ended up here on Earth, as Genesis clearly lays out how man came to be. So past planet hopping would not be "a thing". Though future planet hopping? Who knows?

 

[RomanticRevolutionary]

Even if they climb up into the stars the Lord my God will tear them down from there. They will never escape the hand of Lord Jesus!

 

[Scribe]

The Bible does not say anything about life beyond Earth. The book focuses upon the fall and redemption of man. That's all it does. Like all good books it's consistent with its theme. It's not about dinosaurs, tectonic plate movement or astronomical observation of the movements of the planets and stars. It's about God's relationship with man.

The problem isn't with the Bible, it's with those who denigrate it, who cast aspersions upon it and those who want to claim falsehoods in its pages where none exist.

This is why I posted my remarks about the Mars lander. There's been ample evidence of life and huge amounts of water existing there for many years of investigation. For me, it's fun to watch and learn new things about it.

A key point of possible contention is the growing body of evidence that Mars once hosted an intelligent well developed civilization and that it was destroyed in a nuclear holocaust. What does that say about God's kindness toward the civilization on Earth? If we take the Bible seriously, we understand that God isn't happy with us - not happy with ust at all. Some people interpret the Bible as hinting Earth will go the same way as Mars - destroyed in nuclear fire.

What does that say about the gospel?

I believe it says that instead of inviting ET to dinner here, we need to invite the Holy Spirit into our hearts as a nation and as a planet.

Unfortunately that doesn't appear to be happening now or any time soon.

that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

There isn't a shred of evidence of life on Mars yet. Not even a microbe fossil. And It is crystal clear that God will judge the earth with supernatural judgments that people will know are the wrath of God and not the accidents of men.

 

[Lanolin]

I meant it's not Biblical to say that the origin story of humans somehow started on Mars and then we somehow ended up here on Earth, as Genesis clearly lays out how man came to be. So past planet hopping would not be "a thing". Though future planet hopping? Who knows?

oh ok, well who knows, the title of the thread indicated or suggested either way. I was just riffing off that. I havent made any claims.

 

[Lanolin]

There isn't a shred of evidence of life on Mars yet. Not even a microbe fossil. And It is crystal clear that God will judge the earth with supernatural judgments that people will know are the wrath of God and not the accidents of men.

well there is NOW, that robot probe thing...isnt that a life? Sent by remote control? Its moving around manipulated by humans on earth.
or did God send it.

If mars has any active earthquakes and volcanoes it might indicate that there is life. What do you mean by 'life' anyway.

 

[RomanticRevolutionary]

well there is NOW, that robot probe thing...isnt that a life? Sent by remote control? Its moving around manipulated by humans on earth.
or did God send it.

If mars has any active earthquakes and volcanoes it might indicate that there is life. What do you mean by 'life' anyway.

A robot is not a life because it does not have the breath of life. This is of course making a grand assumption that the unbelievers are not simply lying and there is indeed even a robot up there to begin with.

 

[Lanolin]

yea well you not going to go there to find out I suppose and see for yourself.

I suppose this thread was posted on a christian forum to see if we believed the report lol.

its like another 'whatever' news.

 

[ChoirLoft]

There isn't a shred of evidence of life on Mars yet. Not even a microbe fossil. And It is crystal clear that God will judge the earth with supernatural judgments that people will know are the wrath of God and not the accidents of men.

Quite a few 'shreds' of life if that's the way one wishes to phrase JPLs use of tax payer money.

Basic chemicals necessary for life to develop have been found on Mars as far back as 1976. What we call life is a series of chemical reactions, a bio-mechanical engine if you are able to accept the notion. Every engine burns fuel and exhausts by-products of its chemical reactions. Bio-chemical engines, or life, are no different. Those exhaust products of life processes were discovered on Mars long ago. The problem isn't discovering these things. The problem is admitting that what's been found is what we've been looking for. The problem is that JPL doesn't want to admit it. Photographic evidence that an ancient civilization once existed on Mars has been documented as well as its demise by nuclear fire. That's not the problem.

NASA is riddled with political considerations. Two warring factions have arisen. One is based in Houston and supports manned space flight. The other is JPL in California that supports robotic missions. There is a limited amount of money for NASA space research and the two groups are literally at war with one another. Some reports indicate the contention is so severe that fist fights have broken out at conferences and that some scientists have literally decked their fellow coworkers - literally knocked them to the floor. A terrible example of this political intrigue at NASA is the Challenger accident. It was political from beginning to end.

Getting back to the Bible I do not agree that supernatural judgments from God will persuade anybody of divine wrath. Not even good Sunday-go-to-meeting church folks will believe it. Everybody is persuaded of anti-Christ doctrine and tradition. Nobody takes any argument against it seriously. Nobody.

Look at the current COVID crisis. The plague is global. If ever there was a plague upon mankind of the intensity and diversity of COVID it has not been seen until today. It even changes its shape as it infects and kills. Yet NOBODY perceives this as an act of God. Not even preachers who can take advantage of it and preach repentance pay attention to it for what it is.

Exactly what do you think needs to happen to get everybody's attention?

The people of the world in general and the church in particular have become jaded. They only know hatred of God, of His people and His LAW. They refuse to accept or understand His gracious gift of immortal life and they ABSOLUTELY REJECT GOD'S WORD. Respect of God's LAW has been rejected by the church. Is it any wonder that secular society now does the same about the laws of man?

Yet lawLESSness is one of the symptoms of the End Times. Nobody pays any mind to that either.

What needs to happen to get people's attention?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[phil36]

What impact do these discoveries have upon the gospel? It's worth considering. Those that oppose the gospel consider it seriously.

I don't think they have any bearing whatsoever to the Gospel. And even if they find signs of life, so what? It still doesn't have any bearing on the gospel.