Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.
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I forgot to mention earlier that Peter specifically uses a word which destroys your idea that Jesus comes as a thief in the night which begins 84 months of something something something...
Peter says "...iN...", remember?
"For the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt..."
See that? Peter says the Earth is going to look like a bazillion nukes went off "in" the very day that the Lord comes as a thief, NOT SOME TIME 84 MONTHS AFTER THAT DAY.
Again, how can there be a 7 year tribulation after the day Jesus comes as a thief when there won't be even 7 more minutes?
Peter says "...iN...", remember?
"For the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt..."
See that? Peter says the Earth is going to look like a bazillion nukes went off "in" the very day that the Lord comes as a thief, NOT SOME TIME 84 MONTHS AFTER THAT DAY.
Again, how can there be a 7 year tribulation after the day Jesus comes as a thief when there won't be even 7 more minutes?
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Peter agrees with what I posted earlier. Because we have both been gifted with the understanding of end-time truth of course...
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ure-is-compelling.197095/page-83#post-4495034
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ure-is-compelling.197095/page-83#post-4495034
1Th_5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
While not all "day of the Lord" is the second coming, surely the second coming is called the DOTL at least once
Rev_16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
While not all "day of the Lord" is the second coming, surely the second coming is called the DOTL at least once
Rev_16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
"the DOTL" is an earthly-located time-period (of some DURATION that is not merely "a singular 24-hour day").
Agreed, so far??
That wasn't my question though.
Read again carefully.
My question was:
Agreed, so far??
While not all "day of the Lord" is the second coming, surely the second coming is called the DOTL at least once
Read again carefully.
My question was:
You're not understanding me.
I've already stated numerous times that, yes [!], His Second Coming to the earth IS indeed an ASPECT OF the [entire long] "DOTL" earthly-located time-period.
No doubt about it!
(I've said this many times, myself.)
But what I am asking here is:
...show me reference or references to such a statement ^ , in Scripture...
I've already stated numerous times that, yes [!], His Second Coming to the earth IS indeed an ASPECT OF the [entire long] "DOTL" earthly-located time-period.
No doubt about it!
(I've said this many times, myself.)
But what I am asking here is:
...show me reference or references to such a statement ^ , in Scripture...
The book of Revelation is not in strict chronological order its in the order that John received the visions. I believe the rapture happens around the same time as the Beast/Antichrist enters the Temple and declares himself God its from this time the great tribulation and the wrath of God breaks occurs
What do you do with the verses in Daniel 12 that link the weeks to the end of time?
(All these verses are from Daniel chapter 12)
At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
“From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
“As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”
(All these verses are from Daniel chapter 12)
At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
“From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
“As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”
See, that’s why I can’t be a Jesuit Futurist, because it requires me to ignore the undeniably plain words of 2 Peter 3:10 KJV which says IN the day Jesus comes, the world as we know it ends:
“For the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night, IN THE WHICH the heavens shall pass away with a great noise...”
Your link says “What you fail to comprehend is that the time of the Tribulation is coming as a thief.”
That’s NOT what Scripture says—Peter plainly says the DAY of the Lord is coming as a thief and IN THAT DAY, meaning in that 24 hour period, is when destruction happens, not after years and years as you claim. Let’s not add to a Scripture, please
“For the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night, IN THE WHICH the heavens shall pass away with a great noise...”
Your link says “What you fail to comprehend is that the time of the Tribulation is coming as a thief.”
That’s NOT what Scripture says—Peter plainly says the DAY of the Lord is coming as a thief and IN THAT DAY, meaning in that 24 hour period, is when destruction happens, not after years and years as you claim. Let’s not add to a Scripture, please
Your link says “What you fail to comprehend is that the time of the Tribulation is coming as a thief.”
That’s NOT what Scripture says—Peter plainly says the DAY of the Lord is coming as a thief and IN THAT DAY, meaning in that 24 hour period, is when destruction happens, not after years and years as you claim. Let’s not add to a Scripture, please
That’s NOT what Scripture says—Peter plainly says the DAY of the Lord is coming as a thief and IN THAT DAY, meaning in that 24 hour period, is when destruction happens, not after years and years as you claim. Let’s not add to a Scripture, please
Not merely "a singular 24-hour day".
Paul tells us the manner of its ARRIVAL, in 1Th5:2-3, where he uses the EXACT WORD that Jesus used in Matt24:8 / Mk13:8 (Jesus used the "PLURAL"; Paul used the "SINGULAR" because he's speaking of the moment of its ARRIVAL):
Matthew 24:8 N-GFP [re: the BEGINNING OF them... vv.4-8]
GRK: ταῦτα ἀρχὴ ὠδίνων
NAS: are [merely] the beginning of birth pangs.
KJV: these [are] the beginning of sorrows.
INT: these [are] a beginning of birth pains
Mark 13:8 N-GFP [re: the BEGINNING OF them... vv.5-8]
GRK: λιμοί ἀρχὴ ὠδίνων ταῦτα
NAS: are [merely] the beginning of birth pangs.
KJV: these [are] the beginnings of sorrows.
INT: famines Beginnings of birth pains [are] these
1 Thessalonians 5:3 N-NFS [SINGULAR - "birth PANG"... this is the SAME WORD but in the SINGULAR (Grk)]
GRK: ὥσπερ ἡ ὠδὶν τῇ ἐν
NAS: like labor pains upon a woman with child,
KJV: as travail upon
INT: as the labor pains to her in
Strong's Greek: 5604. ὠδίν (ódin) -- a birth pang (biblehub.com)
--In 1Th5:2-3, Paul is speaking of its ARRIVAL point-in-time (the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]");
--Jesus (when speaking of this same word) tells of a SPANS OF TIME ("the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" - Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8) which is well-before the END of the matter when He RETURNS to the earth (Matt24:29-31);
...IOW, MANY MORE "birth PANGS" follow on from "the BEGINNING of" them (and these "BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are EQUIVALENT to the SEALS in Rev6... which is the early parts of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period that Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 says that those "future" aspects of "[The] Revelation" are said [of them] "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [not said re: "the things WHICH ARE" section (chpts 2-3), by contrast]).
It is by disregarding this connection (of Jesus' words and Paul's here), that ppl miss what Paul (and Peter) are conveying by the phrase "the Day of the Lord" (and namely, its "ARRIVAL"--1Th5:2-3; Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE').
[also, I've mentioned before, when reading Peter's 2Peter3:8-10, read also BOTH CHPTS of Isaiah 34-35 to get a sense of what he's covering (not merely 34:4 - ONE VERSE extracted out from its CONTEXT)]
In case he doesn't arrive for awhile (and because I wondered the same thing for a few minutes, some pages back )... he means "Second Coming" (like Rev19 point in time); what I call, "His Second Coming to the earth"...
["the GREAT tribulation" is just the second HALF of those 7 yrs (Matt24:15,21 / Rev7:14)... but some ppl have just made a habit of calling the whole thing (all 7 yrs) by that term...]
)... he means "Second Coming" (like Rev19 point in time); what I call, "His Second Coming to the earth"...["the GREAT tribulation" is just the second HALF of those 7 yrs (Matt24:15,21 / Rev7:14)... but some ppl have just made a habit of calling the whole thing (all 7 yrs) by that term...]
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Can you quote the ones I brought to the table?
Seems quite dishonest to even go there sir.
In fact, show me a postrib rapture teacher on youtube that even knows about them.
One reason postrib rapture can not be taken seriously is that you guys omit the ones I and others have introduced.
We INTRODUCED them.
Be honest about it please
Seems quite dishonest to even go there sir.
In fact, show me a postrib rapture teacher on youtube that even knows about them.
One reason postrib rapture can not be taken seriously is that you guys omit the ones I and others have introduced.
We INTRODUCED them.
Be honest about it please