Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[TheDivineWatermark]

Rev 19 provides insight into when the wedding supper occurs.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
Does this sound like a description of an event about to occur or an event that has already occurred?

I already answered that. = )

"the wedding/marriage of the Lamb CAME" (same word said of "the queen of Sheba"--long before she was being talked about in Matt12:42)... and "his bride PREPARED" (ditto what I said before, on that word).

8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

Same question.

Ditto the above.

9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

If the wedding supper occurred in heaven right after a pre-trib rapture, we should see different words. Especially in v.9, "who ARE invited". It would have said "who WERE invited."

"those HAVING BEEN INVITED [PERFECT participle] unto" (the "INVITING" happened all throughout the trib yrs, and is now COMPLETED / DONE)... the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is the next thing on the agenda, from this point in the chronology (it IS the *earthly* MK age)--NOT "UP IN Heaven" for THAT.

The words in red suggest an event that is about to occur, not one that has already occurred.

The "HAVING BEEN INVITED" part is DONE / FINISHED... but the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is about to commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth (where those ppl in all the parables on this Subject, will still be located--NO "bride/wife" was mentioned nor referred to in those passages...); I believe this also parallels the passages I've pointed out about "G347 - the meal" (i.e. Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" ... THEN the meal [G347]... and Matt8:11 and its parallel, etc)

For those who want to parse the verbs, I already know which are aorist and which are perfect participles. The aorist, while usually refers to a past event, it doesn't always.

 

[Absolutely]

I already answered that. = )

"the wedding/marriage of the Lamb CAME" (same word said of "the queen of Sheba"--long before she was being talked about in Matt12:42)... and "his bride PREPARED" (ditto what I said before, on that word).



Ditto the above.



"those HAVING BEEN INVITED [PERFECT participle] unto" (the "INVITING" happened all throughout the trib yrs, and is now COMPLETED / DONE)... the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is the next thing on the agenda, from this point in the chronology (it IS the *earthly* MK age)--NOT "UP IN Heaven" for THAT.



The "HAVING BEEN INVITED" part is DONE / FINISHED... but the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is about to commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth (where those ppl in all the parables on this Subject, will still be located--NO "bride/wife" was mentioned nor referred to in those passages...); I believe this also parallels the passages I've pointed out about "G347 - the meal" (i.e. Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" ... THEN the meal... and Matt8:11, etc)

The only way that works is to leave out verses.

The dialogue at the last supper is clear.

" I will not drink of the fruit of the vine again until I drink anew with you in my fathers kingdom"

Crystal clear.
Wedding supper in heaven

It also says the bride has become the wife IN HEAVEN.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The only way that works is to leave out verses.
The dialogue at the last supper is clear.
" I will not drink of the fruit of the vine again until I drink anew with you in my fathers kingdom"
Crystal clear.
Wedding supper in heaven

I think I may have already pointed out to you the parallel passage on that verse... did I?

It also says the bride has become the wife IN HEAVEN.

I agree this is true ^ . I just said that. But "the MARRIAGE" itself is an intimate affair (involving the "Bridegroom" and His "Bride/Wife" only )... "the FEAST/SUPPER/FESTIVITIES" involves "GUESTS [plural]" and "5 VirginS [plural]"... who are not "the bride/wife" (though they are indeed "saved persons / saints / righteous"--having come to faith in/during/within the trib yrs, FOLLOWING "our Rapture," while they are on the earth during the trib [those ACCEPTING the "INVITATION" going out at that time], and now will ENTER the earthly MK age upon His "RETURN" there [i.e. the wedding FEAST/SUPPER]... "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" [ALL those saved in this present age])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yes
The man child is Christ

Well, I've said this before... there is no passage elsewhere that states Jesus was "SNATCHED [G726 - harpazo'd]"

And I've also said... I believe Micah 5:3 (distinct from v.2 about "Jesus' own birth") speaks of this "woman" ("she which travaileth"), where it says, "Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth [<--identifying her] hath brought forth: then the remnant [see Rev12:17 "the remnant" (distinct from this one birthed/brought forth)] of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel."




Rev12:13 says, "[woman who] HAD BROUGHT FORTH the male [G730 - arsena / arren]" (I do not believe this "brought forth" part takes place in the MID-trib, just b/c it mentions this in such a context)

[when speaking of Jesus, it says, "brought forth A SON" - Greek Concordance: ἔτεκεν (eteken) -- 4 Occurrences (biblehub.com) , but leaves off the word "male [G730 arsena / arren ('probably from airo [G142]')]" found in both Rev12:13 and 12:5--but comp. also with Rev2:26-27... He is to be joined by others in this "rule them with a rod of iron" thing... ]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Interesting proposition. But, what convinces you that the 2W were resurrected? They went to heaven in their physical bodies. So they come back to earth, and then physically die. Jesus raised a number of dead people during His ministry, including Lazarus. Was He resurrecting any of them? No.

Here's how I see that. "Resurrection [G386 - noun]" just means "a rising again [on the earth; after having died--a noun]".

In 1Cor15:13, it says this: "But if there is no resurrection [G386 - noun] of the dead, then Christ is not risen/not has been raised [G1453 - verb]."

Does that not sound like both of these words in bold refer to the same thing... one being a noun, the other being a verb, but basically speaking of the same thing (re: Jesus), right? Or no? Like, both words would apply to Jesus (concerning that same particular one thing [expressed in two distinct words], right??)

Just wondering your thoughts on that...

 

[Absolutely]

I think I may have already pointed out to you the parallel passage on that verse... did I?



I agree this is true ^ . I just said that. But "the MARRIAGE" itself is an intimate affair (involving the "Bridegroom" and His "Bride/Wife" only )... "the FEAST/SUPPER/FESTIVITIES" involves "GUESTS [plural]" and "5 VirginS [plural]"... who are not "the bride/wife" (though they are indeed "saved persons / saints / righteous"--having come to faith in/during/within the trib yrs, FOLLOWING "our Rapture," while they are on the earth during the trib [those ACCEPTING the "INVITATION" going out at that time], and now will ENTER the earthly MK age upon His "RETURN" there [i.e. the wedding FEAST/SUPPER]... "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" [ALL those saved in this present age])

No all the saved in heaven attend.

The Jews are seated last.

That is rev 14 and the first miracle " you saved the best ( Jews ) for last.
" Last is first and first is last"

The wedding feast always happened at the father of the groom's house....( Heaven).

I
" I go to prepare a place for you"

Keep in mind the bride is billions of people...not one person.

Trying to make "bride" a one person deal is error.the guests are the bride / wife / guests.

The ending day of David was he in bed with a virgin ( obviously not a " legal/formal "wife")
That is the type of the bride of Christ.

 

[Runningman]

Another post-tribulation rapture proof. These verses say the anti-Christ will be revealed before the rapture.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Runningman]

Another post-tribulation rapture proof:

Matthew 13’s parable of the wheat and the tares (verses 24-30 and 36-43) describes the harvest of the wicked and good as one simultaneous event, not two events separated by seven years.

Notice verse 30 says the tares are harvested first. Uh oh! Another hole poked in pre-trib!

 

[Runningman]

Pre-tribulation rapture is a bogus doctrine, it's divisive, and it's heresy.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Rev 19 provides insight into when the wedding supper occurs.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
Does this sound like a description of an event about to occur or an event that has already occurred?

I already answered that. = )

"the wedding/marriage of the Lamb CAME" (same word said of "the queen of Sheba"--long before she was being talked about in Matt12:42)... and "his bride PREPARED" (ditto what I said before, on that word).

What evidence do you have to use "came" rather than "has come"?

Biblehub.com doesn't help you out. All but 3 of 26 translations have either "has come" or "is come". Then, ther'es these:

Amplified Bible
Let us rejoice and shout for joy! Let us give Him glory and honor, for the marriage of the Lamb has come [at last] and His bride (the redeemed) has prepared herself.”

Contemporary English Version
So we will be glad and happy and give him praise. The wedding day of the Lamb is here, and his bride is ready.


GOD'S WORD® Translation
Let us rejoice, be happy, and give him glory because it's time for the marriage of the lamb. His bride has made herself ready.

So, we also have "has come AT LAST"
"is here", not "WAS here"
"it's time for the marriage of the Lamb".

So, your claim about "came" isn't supported by ANY of the English transalations. Are you a Greek scholar yourself and have additional facts that would support your claim?

When EVERY translation is different than your claim, I tend to go for the scholars.

Ditto the above.

Same for me.

"those HAVING BEEN INVITED [PERFECT participle] unto" (the "INVITING" happened all throughout the trib yrs, and is now COMPLETED / DONE)... the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is the next thing on the agenda, from this point in the chronology (it IS the *earthly* MK age)--NOT "UP IN Heaven" for THAT.

Again, none of the 26 English translations support your claim. The vast majority have "ARE invited".

The "HAVING BEEN INVITED" part is DONE / FINISHED... but the wedding FEAST/SUPPER is about to commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth (where those ppl in all the parables on this Subject, will still be located--NO "bride/wife" was mentioned nor referred to in those passages...); I believe this also parallels the passages I've pointed out about "G347 - the meal" (i.e. Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" ... THEN the meal [G347]... and Matt8:11 and its parallel, etc)

I don't see anything that supports your claim.

All you've done is try to make it sound like it already occurred. But the translations don't support that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The dialogue at the last supper is clear.

" I will not drink of the fruit of the vine again until I drink anew with you in my fathers kingdom"

Crystal clear.
Wedding supper in heaven

Uh, no. You are supposing "My father's kingdom" refers to heaven. There's no reason to do that, since when Jesus comes to earth and sets up His reign, it's still His Father's kingdom.

It also says the bride has become the wife IN HEAVEN.

Citation please.

 

[Absolutely]

Another post-tribulation rapture proof. These verses say the anti-Christ will be revealed before the rapture.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revealed.

It says revealed

Re read it.

No persecution actually happens upon his revealing.

So yes it truly is a pretrib rapture.
Man of sin revealed
Rapture a day/ week/ month or so later.
Those left behind martyred just like we see in scripture.
All after that revealing of antichrist
Raptured bride of mat 24 sees little to no great trib.
Left behind foolish virgins do...they all die or take the mark.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here's how I see that. "Resurrection [G386 - noun]" just means "a rising again [on the earth; after having died--a noun]".

In 1Cor15:13, it says this: "But if there is no resurrection [G386 - noun] of the dead, then Christ is not risen/not has been raised [G1453 - verb]."

Does that not sound like both of these words in bold refer to the same thing... one being a noun, the other being a verb, but basically speaking of the same thing (re: Jesus), right? Or no? Like, both words would apply to Jesus (concerning that same particular one thing [expressed in two distinct words], right??)

Just wondering your thoughts on that...

I think of "resurrection" as getting an immortal body, as described by Paul in 1 Cor 15. It's not possible that the people raised from the dead by Jesus received immortal bodies. That would mean they would still be here on earth now.

Again, Jesus was the first resurrected human being, the "firstfruits". Then ALL believers are resurrected in the "first resurrection", per Rev 19:5.

 

[Absolutely]

Pre-tribulation rapture is a bogus doctrine, it's divisive, and it's heresy.

Says the man that leaves out rapture verses

 

[Absolutely]

Another post-tribulation rapture proof:

Matthew 13’s parable of the wheat and the tares (verses 24-30 and 36-43) describes the harvest of the wicked and good as one simultaneous event, not two events separated by seven years.

Notice verse 30 says the tares are harvested first. Uh oh! Another hole poked in pre-trib!

Another verse has the wheat harvested first.

Rev 14 has the ripe fruit and firstfruits first and the overripe rotten fruit last.

Again re read and study.

 

[Absolutely]

Well, I've said this before... there is no passage elsewhere that states Jesus was "SNATCHED [G726 - harpazo'd]"

And I've also said... I believe Micah 5:3 (distinct from v.2 about "Jesus' own birth") speaks of this "woman" ("she which travaileth"), where it says, "Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth [<--identifying her] hath brought forth: then the remnant [see Rev12:17 "the remnant" (distinct from this one birthed/brought forth)] of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel."




Rev12:13 says, "[woman who] HAD BROUGHT FORTH the male [G730 - arsena / arren]" (I do not believe this "brought forth" part takes place in the MID-trib, just b/c it mentions this in such a context)

[when speaking of Jesus, it says, "brought forth A SON" - Greek Concordance: ἔτεκεν (eteken) -- 4 Occurrences (biblehub.com) , but leaves off the word "male [G730 arsena / arren ('probably from airo [G142]')]" found in both Rev12:13 and 12:5--but comp. also with Rev2:26-27... He is to be joined by others in this "rule them with a rod of iron" thing... ]

Ok
Not sure where all that is going

 

[FreeGrace2]

So yes it truly is a pretrib rapture.

All this talk of a pre-trib rapture, yet ZERO verses that say or indicate that Jesus takes all resurrected/raptured believers back to heaven. I like to call that a U-turn. There are NO u-turns described in the Bible.

Man of sin revealed

Glad you mentioned that.

2 Thess 2-
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

The red words refer to the Second Advent.
The green words refer to the gathering (caught up in the clouds when Jesus returns, or rapture)
The blue words refer to the time of the Tribulation.

It is obvious from v.2 that the man of sin is revealed BEFORE the Second Advent AND the gathering.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

FreeGrace2 said:
Rev 19 provides insight into when the wedding supper occurs.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
Does this sound like a description of an event about to occur or an event that has already occurred?

What evidence do you have to use "came" rather than "has come"?

Biblehub.com doesn't help you out. All but 3 of 26 translations have either "has come" or "is come". Then, ther'es these:

Amplified Bible
Let us rejoice and shout for joy! Let us give Him glory and honor, for the marriage of the Lamb has come [at last] and His bride (the redeemed) has prepared herself.”

Contemporary English Version
So we will be glad and happy and give him praise. The wedding day of the Lamb is here, and his bride is ready.


GOD'S WORD® Translation
Let us rejoice, be happy, and give him glory because it's time for the marriage of the lamb. His bride has made herself ready.

So, we also have "has come AT LAST"
"is here", not "WAS here"
"it's time for the marriage of the Lamb".

So, your claim about "came" isn't supported by ANY of the English transalations. Are you a Greek scholar yourself and have additional facts that would support your claim?

When EVERY translation is different than your claim, I tend to go for the scholars.


Same for me.


Again, none of the 26 English translations support your claim. The vast majority have "ARE invited".


I don't see anything that supports your claim.

All you've done is try to make it sound like it already occurred. But the translations don't support that.

My Greek lexicon doesn't support it either. That's why the English translations don't

The verb doesn't change meaning but is influenced by the accompanying verb.
In this case, "his bride has made herself ready."

"For the wedding of the Lamb has come, ἔρχομαι (erchomai)
and his bride has made herself ready"

She is now ready to go from one place to another.
This is made possible at the end of the tribulation when the full number of martyred members of the bride
are brought it to join the wedding procession.

The same verb is used when John sees the seal horsemen. Rev 6:1

I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals.
Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, ‘Come!’ ἔρχομαι (erchomai)

 

[Absolutely]

All this talk of a pre-trib rapture, yet ZERO verses that say or indicate that Jesus takes all resurrected/raptured believers back to heaven. I like to call that a U-turn. There are NO u-turns described in the Bible.


Glad you mentioned that.

2 Thess 2-
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

The red words refer to the Second Advent.
The green words refer to the gathering (caught up in the clouds when Jesus returns, or rapture)
The blue words refer to the time of the Tribulation.

It is obvious from v.2 that the man of sin is revealed BEFORE the Second Advent AND the gathering.

Yes revealed, then the rapture.
Correct.
Both at the start of the gt.

 

[Absolutely]

My Greek lexicon doesn't support it either. That's why the English translations don't

The verb doesn't change meaning but is influenced by the accompanying verb.
In this case, "his bride has made herself ready."

"For the wedding of the Lamb has come, ἔρχομαι (erchomai)
and his bride has made herself ready"

She is now ready to go from one place to another.
This is made possible at the end of the tribulation when the full number of martyred members of the bride
are brought it to join the wedding procession.

The same verb is used when John sees the seal horsemen. Rev 6:1

I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals.
Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, ‘Come!’ ἔρχομαι (erchomai)

“When a man has taken a bride, he shall not go out with the army or be assigned to it for any purpose; he shall be exempt one year for the sake of his household, to give happiness to the woman he has married.” (Deuteronomy 24:5)

So bride becomes the wife in heaven around a year or more before the 2nd coming.

That would be complete with marriage supper as described in the last supper dialogue.