Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

[Blackpowderduelist]

So you do agree the gospel they were preaching in Luke 9:6 was not about the cross, correct?

Just because you are caught up in time constraints, does not mean that God is.
Jesus knew he was headed to the cross and that was going to pay for the sins of the world, so when he said I am here to save you he knew what was going on. So even though his Apostles weren't aware of it yet, that is indeed what their message was.

I'm not going to be drawn into a semantics battle with you.

Christ crucified from the foundations of the earth.

We are done I will no longer read what you habebo say because you are being overtly obtuse, good bye and thank you.

 

[throughfaith]

Here are places where Jesus preached the same Gospel as He taught Paul to preach:


Matthew 16:21

New King James Version

Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.


Matthew 17:22-23

New King James Version

Jesus Again Predicts His Death and Resurrection
22 Now while they were [a]staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, 23 and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up.” And they were exceedingly sorrowful.

Mark 8:31

New King James Version

Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection
31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.


John 2:18-22

New King James Version

18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this [a]to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.


If this is the Gospel unto Salvation you are talking about that both Jesus and Paul preached, than the answer is no. They didn't preach a different Gospel.

But its one thing for Jesus to tell them what was about to happen and another as to what Gospel THEY were preaching .
Notice here .

Luke 18:34

“And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.”

This is straight after this :
31¶Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34¶And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

(Matt. 20:29–34; Mark 10:46–52 )

Then read luke 9.6

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which Gospel ?

The same one Jesus gave. Whoever believes has eternal life, for by grace we have been saved, hearing and having believed you are sealed, whoever believes has eternal life, whoever does not believe the wrath of God abides,

paul and Jesus in agreement, as was Peter, as both paul and Peter were given the message directly by Jesus himself

 

[throughfaith]

Here are places where Jesus preached the same Gospel as He taught Paul to preach:


Matthew 16:21

New King James Version

Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.


Matthew 17:22-23

New King James Version

Jesus Again Predicts His Death and Resurrection
22 Now while they were [a]staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, 23 and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up.” And they were exceedingly sorrowful.

Mark 8:31

New King James Version

Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection
31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.


John 2:18-22

New King James Version

18 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?”
19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this [a]to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.


If this is the Gospel unto Salvation you are talking about that both Jesus and Paul preached, than the answer is no. They didn't preach a different Gospel.

Jesus is telling them what will happen so that AFTER they will know/ believe / remember. But he's not ' preaching ' the Gospel to them. Had they been Jesus would not have been crucified .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which Gospel ? Luke 9.6 or 1cor 15 1-4 ?

The gospel is the good news of Jesus,

both preached the same gospel

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus is telling them what will happen so that AFTER they will know/ believe / remember. But he's not ' preaching ' the Gospel to them. Had they been Jesus would not have been crucified .

Where they saved by faith or by works?

john6 tells us that Peter understood Jesus had the words of eternal life, was Peter wrong?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Here are places where Jesus preached the same Gospel as He taught Paul to preach:
[...] Mark 8:31
New King James Version
Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection
31 And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

... and on the day of His "Resurrection," this:

[at the scene at the empty sepulchre, Peter and that other disciple]

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again [G450] from the dead." - John 20:9





[btw, it is only said of "that other disciple" (not said of Peter) that "he saw [the linen clothes] and believed"... (I do not believe "that other disciple" was "John" as tradition teaches--and yes, I am aware of all the arguments)... the point being, that even though Jesus mentioned this to His disciples a few times before He went to the Cross, they still did not grasp it... for we even see in Lk18:33-34 that it says, "33 They will flog Him and kill Him, and on the third day He will rise again.” 34 But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend what He was saying. "]

 

[kaylagrl]

Which Gospel ?

My answer to this is going to start a "whose on first" debate. I can feel it coming. There is only one way to be saved and only one Gospel. Same for both Jews and Gentiles. God revealed the Gospel to Abraham with the promise that all peoples of earth would be blessed through following his example of trusting God’s promise and being justified by repentant faith. (before the cross) Hebrews 11 explains "by faith" in verse after verse. They all died and didn't live to see the promise of a Messiah fulfilled, but they believed, by faith. Paul alludes to this in Romans 4, again saying "by faith".

Gal.3 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Whether looking forward or back, all are saved by faith in Christ's substitutionary atonement. One Gospel for all.

 

[Guojing]

My answer to this is going to start a "whose on first" debate. I can feel it coming. There is only one way to be saved and only one Gospel. Same for both Jews and Gentiles. God revealed the Gospel to Abraham with the promise that all peoples of earth would be blessed through following his example of trusting God’s promise and being justified by repentant faith. (before the cross) Hebrews 11 explains "by faith" in verse after verse. They all died and didn't live to see the promise of a Messiah fulfilled, but they believed, by faith. Paul alludes to this in Romans 4, again saying "by faith".

Gal.3 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Whether looking forward or back, all are saved by faith in Christ's substitutionary atonement. One Gospel for all.

You summed up the central belief of covenant theologians

 

[John146]

Actually. That is why they missed out on Jesus plan, and why most rejected Christ, because they were looking at the wrong message,

it was part of the hidden mystery, which was used to keep Satan from knowing the truth, otherwise satan would have done everything to prevent christs death and not act as he did to make it happen

there are not two gospels


when Paul went to the synagogues to,start the churches, which gospel did he teach?

Paul makes it clear that the gospel he preached was specifically how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. The Lord and his disciples did not preach this prior to the cross. Their message was the good news of the restoration of the kingdom to Israel. It would include a physical deliverance from their enemies so they could serve God without fear.

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (a physical redemption)
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (a physical salvation)
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (Israel)
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (to the nation of Israel)
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Even after the cross, the disciples were looking for the restoration of the kingdom of Israel because that's what they had been preaching.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

 

[kaylagrl]

You summed up the central belief of covenant theologians

Humm well I used Scripture entirely so can you kindly point out where the Bible got it wrong? Thanks.

 

[Guojing]

Humm well I used Scripture entirely so can you kindly point out where the Bible got it wrong? Thanks.

I am not saying the Bible got it wrong. I am just saying you are preaching their doctrine of the covenant of grace.

You have never heard of the term covenant theology before?

 

[kaylagrl]

I am not saying the Bible got it wrong. I am just saying you are preaching their doctrine of the covenant of grace.

You have never heard of the term covenant theology before?

Well as long as I have the Bible on my side I'm good. You believe otherwise? Or were just pointing that out?

 

[Guojing]

Well as long as I have the Bible on my side I'm good. You believe otherwise? Or were just pointing that out?

Thru your post, I am reminded once again that people who have the doctrine of “there is only ONE gospel” for all times, are basically interpreting the Bible thru the lens of covenant theology.

 

[kaylagrl]

Thru your post, I am reminded once again that people who have the doctrine of “there is only ONE gospel” for all times, are basically interpreting the Bible thru the lens of covenant theology.

So again, you don't believe that? Or...

 

[Guojing]

So again, you don't believe that? Or...

I interpret scripture with a different lens from yours.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul makes it clear that the gospel he preached was specifically how Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. The Lord and his disciples did not preach this prior to the cross. Their message was the good news of the restoration of the kingdom to Israel. It would include a physical deliverance from their enemies so they could serve God without fear.

Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (a physical redemption)
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (a physical salvation)
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (Israel)
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (to the nation of Israel)
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Even after the cross, the disciples were looking for the restoration of the kingdom of Israel because that's what they had been preaching.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

whatever man
john 3: 16 was not about the kingdom

john6 was not about the kingdom


as usual, trying to discuss anything with you is a waste of time

ps. you give dispensational christians a bad name

john 3: 16 was not about the kingdom

 

[KingdomBrat]

I interpret scripture with a different lens from yours.

Is that lens from the traditions of your family beliefs and of the churches you attended, or have you made a conclusion from your own assessment and [reasoning]?

 

[kaylagrl]

I interpret scripture with a different lens from yours.

Well as long as you aren't adding or taking away from Scripture, then fine. I don't see where the Bible says there is any other way to be saved. You may enlighten me, but I don't see it.

 

[Guojing]

Well as long as you aren't adding or taking away from Scripture, then fine. I don't see where the Bible says there is any other way to be saved. You may enlighten me, but I don't see it.

If you meant salvation is always thru Christ, I would certainly agree with you.