The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints

Journeyman · Feb 12, 2021

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Cor.5:17

The building where only righteousness dwells is being comstructed by our Lord now. The problem with congregations today is, many don't want to dwell in only righteousness now. Many don't want to reign in love over their enemies now.

Runningman · Feb 12, 2021

Journeyman said:

And one day they won't have a choice.

Does anyone know what it means that we were purchased and that we are not our own?

Not going to sit here and pretend I'm perfect, but we should strive for holiness now in the flesh and abstain from sin as much as possible out of sheer love for God despite having full access to the grace of God through faith.

"Blessed is he who's sins are not counted against him" is not a license to ignore dwelling in righteous, but rather a call to be humble and thankful for God's mercy that we are not dealt with according to our sins. If we were then there'd be no one left.

Again, one day they won't have a choice. Won't there be a new heaven and a new earth where only righteousness dwells? Or no?

Truth7t7 · Feb 12, 2021

TMS said:

“I ... saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. ... And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, ‘Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men’ ” (Revelation 21:2, 3).
“Behold, the day of the Lord is coming. ... And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two. ... Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. ... All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem” (Zechariah 14:1, 4, 5, 10).

The New Jerusalem will settle where the mount of Olives now stands. The mountain will be flattened to make a great plain, upon which the city will come to rest. All of the righteous people of all ages (Zechariah 14:5), the angels of heaven (Matthew 25:31), God the Father (Revelation 21:2, 3), and God the Son (Matthew 25:31) will return to the earth with the holy city for Jesus’ special third coming. The second coming will be for His saints, while the third will be with His saints.

At the close of the 1,000 years (when Jesus comes the third time), the wicked will be raised. Satan, loosed from his bonds, will then have an earth full of people (all the nations of the world) to deceive.
“Satan will … go out to deceive the nations … of the earth … to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city” (Revelation 20:7–9).

“Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into ... the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 20:9, 10; 21:8).
“ ‘The wicked ... shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:3).
(Matthew 25:41). This fire that destroys sin and sinners is called the second death.

“Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth” (Isaiah 65:17).
“Look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells” (2 Peter 3:13).
“He who sat on the throne said, ‘Behold, I make all things new’ ” (Revelation 21:5).
“The tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God” (Revelation 21:3).

After the 1000 years the city of God will be the Earths capital. And sin will be no more. eternity continues.....

Thanks for your response

I strongly disagree with your eschatology, in the 3items below

Truth7t7: There will be one future coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, at this time the resurrection of "All" that have lived takes place, at this time the final judgement by fire takes place, immediately after the tribulation

This takes place on the last day, as the existing heavens and earth are (Dissolved) by the Lords fire in judgement, as the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, are revealed for the righteous, eternity begins

I Strongly Disagree With The Three Items Below

1.) 2 resurrections 1,000 years apart

2.) The New Jerusalem coming down to "This Earth"

3.) Three comings of Jesus Christ

4.) Satan being loosed after 1,000 years

Truth7t7 · Feb 12, 2021

pottersclay said:

One thing you completely (Disregard) is the (Fact) Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, The Earth Is (Dissolved) By Fire (Fact)

Why Do You (Disregard) Gods Words Below, I Could Post Several More Verses Of Fire And Destruction.

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

2 Thessalonians 7:8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Journeyman · Feb 12, 2021

Runningman said:

I agree, except holy living isn't despite God's grace, but because of it.

Runningman said:

Yes, but that's because our Lord is returning in fiery judgement and only those who live by faith in him now will survive it.

Truth7t7 · Feb 12, 2021

Journeyman said:

All mens works will be tried by this fiery judgement, no human body will survive.

Yes at this time, those who lived by faith, both old & new testament believers, will receive their Eternal Glorified Body, and live eternally in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

pottersclay · Feb 13, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

One thing you completely (Disregard) is the (Fact) Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, The Earth Is (Dissolved) By Fire (Fact)

Why Do You (Disregard) Gods Words Below, I Could Post Several More Verses Of Fire And Destruction.

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

2 Thessalonians 7:8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Oh I see and agree....I just didn't know we were to skip a few chapters.

Truth7t7 · Feb 13, 2021

pottersclay said:

The fact is, Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement,dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

You desire to see Jesus Christ return, and start a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, you dont want to acknowledge this fire at the Lords Appearance, Revealing, because your fairy tale Kingdom on this earth is (Gone)

The Lord Jesus Christ Appears, Reveals, In (FIRE)

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Yahshua · Feb 13, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Isaiah 2:2-4
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

When does this happen if everyone is destroyed at Messiah's coming?

Truth7t7 said:

What is your definition of the word "resurrection"?

Revelation 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Yahshua · Feb 13, 2021

The books of the bible were intentionally designed by the Almighty to work like 4th-dimensional puzzle pieces that we must "stack" or layer to see the full picture because as Proverbs 25:2 says...

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.

The Almighty never reveals the full picture any time He shares a vision or prophecy with mankind. Not everything about the end-times has been shared in the book of Revelation. There are other books besides Daniel that give important details to fill in the gaps. So we're required to search out all instances concerning end-time events and then put them all together, verse upon verse; passage upon passage.

Isaiah 28:9-10
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

For instance, if we only read the book of Revelation we'd be hardpressed to determine the reason behind the 1000-year reign. What's it mean? Why does the Messiah reign only 1000 years and not for eternity? There's seemingly no context for the timeframe...so we reason that it must be "spiritual" and not literal.

...But when we measure out the times we're given in scripture- from Adam to the Apostles - we discover that The Almighty has been fulfilling His plan outlined in the creation story (Genesis 1) to the very millennium (1 of Almighty's days = 1000 years of man).

- On the 1st day, light separated from darkness.

- In the 1st millennium of man, sinful Adam was separated from Almighty's presence and died "in the day" (year 930).

[Each subsequent millennium fulfills its corresponding "day" of creation week also.]

- On the 7th day, The Almighty completed & rested from His work...this is the Sabbath.

- In the 7th millennium of man, The Messiah completes us, and we "rest" from our labors... this is the Millennium Reign.

After the Sabbath Millennium, the final destruction of satan and his army occurs.

Truth7t7 · Feb 13, 2021

Yahshua said:

Is what you have done with your quote of Isaiah 2:1-4?

"you have taken a clip", and use it out of context, in trying to create a false doctrine, of a Millennial Kingdom on this earth (False)

The truth of the matter is, verses 1-5 is telling the story "After" the events of verses 6-22 takes place, just like a movie gives you a glimpse of the ending at the beginning.

Isaiah 2:6-22 clearly shows (The Day Of The Lord) men running into the holes, rocks and caves, and in verse 22 you see man's breath is taken from his nostrils (The End Of Human Life)

Isaiah 2:1-5 is the (Eternal Kingdom) In The New Heaven And Earth, "After" The Day Of The Lord Takes Place in verses 6-22 (The End)

No Millennial Kingdom Found In Isaiah 2:1-22, Keep Searching, You're Not Going To Find It

A 1,000 Year Kingdom Upon This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale, (Fact)

Isaiah 2:1-22KJV
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.
6 Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.
7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots:
8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:
9 And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.
10 Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
12 For the day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,
14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,
15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall,
16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures.
17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.
18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?

Angela53510 · Feb 13, 2021

Runningman said:

I guess you are fairly new here. I've argued Scripture about this issue, till I gave up. No one listens to anyone else here.

But, FYI, I am Amillennial and I do not believe in the rapture, since it is not found in the Bible. I read Greek and Hebrew, and I have been over this showing what the Greek says, and people are just stuck with dispie doctrine they are bound in.

If you want, I can post some long complicated posts in what the Bible and church history really have to say about these wrong views of eschatology. Let me know.

Runningman · Feb 13, 2021

Angela53510 said:

I mean, I may have seen your posts but I don't really remember. Like I didn't know you believe in amillenialism until right now. It's just a discussion, but I'm intrigued you can read Greek and Hebrew.

Yes please posts your sources. At minimum I'll read them and maybe form a reply.

Journeyman · Feb 13, 2021

Yahshua said:

It's happening now. The "mountain of the Lord's house" is the house that Jesus is building.

Isaiah doesn't mean every single person on earth will go to it. He means gentiles from every nation will go to it. He's teaching us his ways. We're not learning war anymore,

I say unto you, Love your enemies Mt.5:44

Yahshua said:

To be raised from death. To be made alive,

I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is Jn.5:25

this is life eternal Jn.17:3

ye have no life in you. Jn.6:53

Musicmaster · Feb 13, 2021

Ezekiel 40 - 48, which describes the millennial temple with renewed sacrifices, must have eaten some stale pizza the night before to have had such a vivid dream/vision of something that some I have encountered can spiritualize into saying whatever they want it to say. This is a common practice and strategy of many to try and force scripture into backing their beliefs. Strangely, very few spiritualize Isaiah 53 and other places that point to Christ, His birth and crucifixion. That would render the Messiah as only a spiritual operation going on rather than the literal blood shed on that cross, and all the other elements of His physical and spiritual ministry and fulfillment of the prophecies concerning Him.

So, my question is, what's the acid test for issuing an empirical demand for sections of scripture being allegorical/spiritual, and otherwise literal?

MM

pottersclay · Feb 13, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

And my rebuttal to you is found in the words of jesus himself.
"Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words will not."
"Not one jot or tittle will be removed untill all is fulfilled"
Jesus has not fulfilled all that is written by the prophets thus far nor will theses be fulfilled at the time of the great tribulation.
You my friend are at fault.
You cannot ignore this because it is the mission of Jesus himself as the redeemer of all things to fulfill all that is written.
Jesus comes back as the blessed hope not the angel of death.
It does not please God that any shall parish for it is written he had hoped to save all, that all would repent.
Jesus left this earth as flesh and bone and he will surly return the same for the angles have testified to this.
To say otherwise is to call God a liar and his prophets false.
There are no nation's in heaven let alone all the other things that your spiritual theology so falsely discribes.
There is a time when all will be passed away by fervent heat . When this happens the last of the prophecy will be fulfilled.
There will be no more death.

TheDivineWatermark · Feb 13, 2021

@Musicmaster , re: your Post #275,

I recommend the following 17-min video called,

"Biblical Interpretation Series - Spiritualization" by Paul Martin Henebury, PhD

LINK - Biblical Interpretation Series - Spiritualization by Paul Martin Henebury, PhD - YouTube

[note: he is not in favor of "spiritualization"]

Journeyman · Feb 13, 2021

Musicmaster said:

The acid test is this,

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Jn.14:26

If you don't want to beat your sword into a plow blade, then don't.

Musicmaster · Feb 13, 2021

Folks, I wasn't trying to be snide in my post #275. I simply laid the groundwork for my question.

I do, however, agree with 1 John 2:27. I've quoted that many times.

MM

Journeyman · Feb 13, 2021

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 1Jn.2:28

And not because our Lord will be having summer school.

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