Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[Truth7t7]

Been there, done that. But I'm always happy to repeat myself.

Rev 20-
1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

OK, this passage shows an angel coming down from heaven (to earth, obviously). He binds and locks the devil into the Abyss, to keep him from "deceiving the nations anyone", for how long? 1,000 years. Also called the Millennium. The nations, btw, all reside ON EARTH. So there's your earth and mortal humans.

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Ok, this passage shows the martyrs from the Trib being resurrected (came to life). And, what did they DO? "REIGNED WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS. Again, called the Millennium. These are humans who have been resurrected. And they REIGN with Christ. This isn't difficult to grasp. Just believe the words. It's all there.

From the first 3 verses, we KNOW the context is ON THE EARTH.

Rev 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
Rev 19:15,16
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

The "nations" are mortal humans, being ruled by Christ.

Now, you are free to reject the truth. But you have been given the truth.

Oh, and don't forget some more truth:
2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;

We have verses that SAY that Jesus "rules the nations". And the context is ON EARTH. And we have verses that say that believers will RULE WITH CHRIST.

So, there, you have it.


Rev 20 refutes your imaginationn.


Your so-called "fact" is pure imagination.


You can copy and paste the passage, but obviously you do not understand it.

You have shown truth?

Not one place in Rev 20:1-6 have you displayed Jesus Christ sitting on a earthly throne, in a physical kingdom on earth, with mortal humans present, not one place (None)

Those present in Rev 20:1-6 reigning with God/Christ are identified as (The Souls) (The Dead) 100% in the Lords Eternal Spiritual Realm, Not On This Physical Earth (Fact)

The word "Nations" dosent represent the claims above, as you suggest your representing truth

To Add to these facts, the heavens and earth are (Dissolved) by the Lords fire in judgement at his return, no 1,000 year Millennium on this Earth following (Fact)

One thing you completely (Disregard) is the (Fact) Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, The Earth Is (Dissolved) By Fire (Fact)

Why Do You (Disregard) Gods Words Below, I Could Post Several More Verses Of Fire And Destruction.

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

2 Thessalonians 7:8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have shown truth?

Of course I have. Do you have "eyes to see and ears to hear"?

Not one place in Rev 20:1-6 have you displayed Jesus Christ sitting on a earthly throne, in a physical kingdom on earth, with mortal humans present, not one place (None)

What you seem to be looking for is YOUR OWN choice of wording in order to "satisfy" (allegedly) a refutation.

The phrase, as I have shown, "rule the nations" proves that His kingdom is ON EARTH. But you are free to assume otherwise.

But, what YOU don't have is proof that His kingdom is spiritual only. That's your achilles heel.

Those present in Rev 20:1-6 reigning with God/Christ are identified as (The Souls) (The Dead) 100% in the Lords Eternal Spiritual Realm, Not On This Physical Earth (Fact)

Uh, no. They are in the "first resurrection". That means that Christ has returned to earth. And they possess their immortal bodies. But you are free to speculate otherwise.

The word "Nations" dosent represent the claims above, as you suggest your representing truth

So, you just deny the obvious then? What ELSE would "the nations" represent?

To Add to these facts, the heavens and earth are (Dissolved) by the Lords fire in judgement at his return, no 1,000 year Millennium on this Earth following (Fact)

I have already addressed that. Yes, the heavens and earth are dissolved. But that occurs in Rev 21, which, most of us would argue, is AFTER Rev 20. So it is your timeline that is screwed up. A lot.

One thing you completely (Disregard) is the (Fact) Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, The Earth Is (Dissolved) By Fire (Fact)

Peter was describing what ultimately happens to the present earth. The truth is that Jesus returns, reigns for 1,000 years, holds court at the GWT judgment, casts all unbelievers into the lake of fire, and THEN THEN THEN dissolves the earth. But you seem to want to ignore all of Rev 20 and jump right to ch 21.

Why Do You (Disregard) Gods Words Below, I Could Post Several More Verses Of Fire And Destruction.

Don't be silly. I have never disregarded or ignored that fact. What I strongly REJECT is your theory that it occurs when Jesus comes back to earth at the Second Advent.

John 21:22 - Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”

So, please answer: what was Jesus referring to when He told Peter "when I return"?

You claim His realm of reigning is in heaven. But you have NO EVIDENCE for such a theory/speculation/guess.

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

Ha. The Bible specifically mentions 1,000 years over and over. But go ahead and keep ignoring Scripture.

2 Thessalonians 7:8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

OK, revealed to WHOM?

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Why do you make such a HUGE LEAP from an event in Genesis to the future? Where does the Bible say that when Jesus returns to earth He "destroys them all". And don't both with Luke 17 again. It's simply not relevant.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

OK, one more time. The will be burned/dissolved/melted only because He is the One doing it. That means "at His presence". it doesn't say anything about WHEN He returns to earth, as you presume/assume/guess/speculate.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

This occurs at the GWT judgment (see Rev 20:11-15, which follows the 1,000 years of Satan's being locked up and after he is let loose for a short time to deceive the NATIONS once again. Then Jesus wins the battle of Gog and Magog, and THEN has court at the GWT judgment.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Yes, they will be. But Rev 20 occurs FIRST, and THEN comes Rev 21:1.

Seems you're having a lot of trouble with chronology here.

 

[Truth7t7]

Of course I have. Do you have "eyes to see and ears to hear"?


What you seem to be looking for is YOUR OWN choice of wording in order to "satisfy" (allegedly) a refutation.

The phrase, as I have shown, "rule the nations" proves that His kingdom is ON EARTH. But you are free to assume otherwise.

But, what YOU don't have is proof that His kingdom is spiritual only. That's your achilles heel.


Uh, no. They are in the "first resurrection". That means that Christ has returned to earth. And they possess their immortal bodies. But you are free to speculate otherwise.


So, you just deny the obvious then? What ELSE would "the nations" represent?


I have already addressed that. Yes, the heavens and earth are dissolved. But that occurs in Rev 21, which, most of us would argue, is AFTER Rev 20. So it is your timeline that is screwed up. A lot.


Peter was describing what ultimately happens to the present earth. The truth is that Jesus returns, reigns for 1,000 years, holds court at the GWT judgment, casts all unbelievers into the lake of fire, and THEN THEN THEN dissolves the earth. But you seem to want to ignore all of Rev 20 and jump right to ch 21.


Don't be silly. I have never disregarded or ignored that fact. What I strongly REJECT is your theory that it occurs when Jesus comes back to earth at the Second Advent.

John 21:22 - Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”

So, please answer: what was Jesus referring to when He told Peter "when I return"?

You claim His realm of reigning is in heaven. But you have NO EVIDENCE for such a theory/speculation/guess.


Ha. The Bible specifically mentions 1,000 years over and over. But go ahead and keep ignoring Scripture.


OK, revealed to WHOM?


Why do you make such a HUGE LEAP from an event in Genesis to the future? Where does the Bible say that when Jesus returns to earth He "destroys them all". And don't both with Luke 17 again. It's simply not relevant.


OK, one more time. The will be burned/dissolved/melted only because He is the One doing it. That means "at His presence". it doesn't say anything about WHEN He returns to earth, as you presume/assume/guess/speculate.


This occurs at the GWT judgment (see Rev 20:11-15, which follows the 1,000 years of Satan's being locked up and after he is let loose for a short time to deceive the NATIONS once again. Then Jesus wins the battle of Gog and Magog, and THEN has court at the GWT judgment.


Yes, they will be. But Rev 20 occurs FIRST, and THEN comes Rev 21:1.

Seems you're having a lot of trouble with chronology here.

At no place in Rev 20:1-6 does it state (Rule The Nations) as you claim

(Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron) is in Rev Chap 19, and is showing how Jesus Christ (Destroys) the wicked with a rod of iron

You have been shown (Multiple Times) at the Appearance/Revealing of Jesus Christ, this earth is dissolved by fire

You want to falsely believe and teach, that when Jesus Christ (Appears) it will be to start a Millennial Kingdom on Earth, 100% (False)

A Man Made Fairy Tale, Jesus Christ Appears In The Second Coming, In Final Judgement By Fire, I'll Post It Again

One thing you completely (Disregard) is the (Fact) Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, The Earth Is (Dissolved) By Fire (Fact)

Why Do You (Disregard) Gods Words Below, I Could Post Several More Verses Of Fire And Destruction.

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

2 Thessalonians 7:8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Destroyed Them All" At His Revealing (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

At His Presence, The World Is Burned, And "All" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Bodies Consumed By The Lords Fire In Final Judgement

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Heavens And Earth Are (Dissolved)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[FreeGrace2]

At no place in Rev 20:1-6 does it state (Rule The Nations) as you claim

I never said v.1-6 say that. But I showed the verses where it DOES say that. Which you conveniently ignore.

Why do you avoid those verses? They prove that Jesus will rule nations.

(Rule Them With A Rod Of Iron) is in Rev Chap 19, and is showing how Jesus Christ (Destroys) the wicked with a rod of iron

Oh, I see. You have conveniently substituted the word "rule" with the totally different word "destroy". Cute. But no dice. They aren't the same words, nor do they mean the same thing.

Unless you have the preposterous view that when kings "rule" their people, they are destroying them. lol

You have been shown (Multiple Times) at the Appearance/Revealing of Jesus Christ, this earth is dissolved by fire

I've shown you multiple times that none of the verse says the dissolution occurs the moment Jesus returns. That is only your imagination.

You want to falsely believe and teach, that when Jesus Christ (Appears) it will be to start a Millennial Kingdom on Earth, 100% (False)

I'm tired of your imagination. It is totally unbiblical.

A Man Madre Fairy Tale, Jesus Christ Appears In The Second Coming, In Final Judgement By Fire, I'll Post It Again

Getting more tired.

One thing you completely (Disregard) is the (Fact) Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, The Earth Is (Dissolved) By Fire (Fact)

I've explained that already.

Why Do You (Disregard) Gods Words Below, I Could Post Several More Verses Of Fire And Destruction.

As I noted in my last post, I've never denied that this present earth will be dissolved/melted. What I absolutely do disregard is your fantasy about it happening WHEN Jesus returns. It's you who disregards clear Scripture.

There wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ will return in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

I know. You've cut ch 20 out of your Bible, so you don't have to see it.

2 Thessalonians 7:8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

I guess you conveniently forget/disregard/reject that Jesus comes back to earth to END the battle of Armageddon. That's the "flaming fire" that "takes vengeance" on unbelievers.

Since I've already explained what all your other verses mean, I'm not going to repeat myself.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why do you avoid those verses? They prove that Jesus will rule nations.

Oh, I see. You have conveniently substituted the word "rule" with the totally different word "destroy". Cute. But no dice. They aren't the same words, nor do they mean the same thing.

Unless you have the preposterous view that when kings "rule" their people, they are destroying them. lol

You conveniently twist Gods very plain words, Jesus ruling with a (Rod Of Iron) is (Destruction) of the wicked at his return, as a potter destroy's his clay vessels

Right before your eye, simple, clear, and easy to understand, and you deny this rod of iron is a tool of destruction, willful ignorance

Rod Of Iron = Tool Of Destruction

As Clearly Seen Below, Jesus Christ Delivers The Fierceness And Wrath Of God, With A Rod Of Iron, BeforeYour Eyes!

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Psalm 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Revelation 19:15b "and He shall RULE [G4165 - poimanei ] them with a rod of iron" [ Revelation 19:15 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) ] ... the word in bold is the SAME Greek word as found in Revelation 7:17, where it says, "...the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne SHALL FEED [G4165 - poimanei - Revelation 7:17 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) ] them"... (parallel with Isaiah 49:10, an earthly MK age passage)




Read the rest of the passage (the wider passage) in Psalm 2 -

8 Ask Me, and I will make the nations Your inheritance,
the ends of the earth Your possession.
9 You will break themd with an iron scepter;
You will shatter them like pottery.e”
10 Therefore be wise, O kings;
be admonished, O judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry
and you perish in your rebellion,
when His wrath ignites in an instant.
Blessed are all who take refuge in Him.


Footnotes:

1 a Or noisily assemble ; see Revelation 11:18.
2 b Cited in Acts 4:25–26
7 c Literally today I have begotten You ; cited in Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5, and Hebrews 5:5
9 d LXX You will rule them  or You will shepherd them 
9 e Cited in Revelation 2:27; see also Revelation 12:5 and Revelation 19:15.


So under the Footnotes for Psalm 2:9, it is showing that the LXX (Greek version of the OT / Septuagint) shows verse 9 to be saying "You will RULE [G4165] them, or you will SHEPHERD [G4165] them"

[notice also where it mentions Heb1:5... and then see Heb1:8 which has the word "sceptre / rod [G4464]" 2x]




Here's BlueLetterBible where you can find the LXX (Greek) version of the OT, of that passage:

[SELECT "Septuagint" Tab to see the Greek version and the "G4165 - poimainō " word... under the TOOLS option at left side of verse 9]

Psalm 2 (KJV) - Ask of me and I (blueletterbible.org) "G4165 - poimainō " - Psalm 2:9 in the LXX / Septuagint






[notice also that Psalm 2 is not conveying only negative-sounding things, but also positive-sounding things... where, in this text, even the "kings [and judges] of the earth" are being exhorted / urged to "be wise" and "serve the Lord" and "kiss the Son," etc... and the final comment is "BLESSED are ALL who take refuge in Him" Consider the ENTIRE CONTEXT]

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 19:15b "and He shall RULE [G4165 - poimanei ] them with a rod of iron" [ Revelation 19:15 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) ] ... the word in bold is the SAME Greek word as found in Revelation 7:17, where it says, "...the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne SHALL FEED [G4165 - poimanei - Revelation 7:17 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) ] them"... (parallel with Isaiah 49:10, an earthly MK age passage)




Read the rest of the passage (the wider passage) in Psalm 2 -

8 Ask Me, and I will make the nations Your inheritance,
the ends of the earth Your possession.
9 You will break themd with an iron scepter;
You will shatter them like pottery.e”
10 Therefore be wise, O kings;
be admonished, O judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry
and you perish in your rebellion,
when His wrath ignites in an instant.
Blessed are all who take refuge in Him.


Footnotes:

1 a Or noisily assemble ; see Revelation 11:18.
2 b Cited in Acts 4:25–26
7 c Literally today I have begotten You ; cited in Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5, and Hebrews 5:5
9 d LXX You will rule them  or You will shepherd them 
9 e Cited in Revelation 2:27; see also Revelation 12:5 and Revelation 19:15.


So under the Footnotes for Psalm 2:9, it is showing that the LXX (Greek version of the OT / Septuagint) shows verse 9 to be saying "You will RULE [G4165] them, or you will SHEPHERD [G4165] them"




Here's BlueLetterBible where you can find the LXX (Greek) version of the OT, of that passage:

[SELECT "Septuagint" Tab to see the Greek version and the "G4165 - poimainō " word... under the TOOLS option at left side of verse 9]

Psalm 2 (KJV) - Ask of me and I (blueletterbible.org) "G4165 - poimainō " - Psalm 2:9 in the LXX / Septuagint






[notice also that Psalm 2 is not conveying only negative-sounding things, but also positive-sounding things... where, in this text, even the "kings [and judges] of the earth" are being exhorted / urged to "be wise" and "serve the Lord" and "kiss the Son," etc... and the final comment is "BLESSED are ALL who take refuge in Him" Consider the ENTIRE CONTEXT]

Appears your back to the writing in chaos, skip

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Truth7t7 , I thought you said I could bold for emphasis (like you yourself use).


BTW, the blue in that post is the auto-links... I didn't change them to blue myself.
You yourself use bold and color, so it can't be that. ( )

And the italics shows the different language (namely, Greek, as opposed to the English... like most editors use, to differentiate). JFYI

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Psalm 2 context speaks of both positives and negatives. Consider the entire context, rather than extracting part of one verse out from its entire context.

--also compare Scripture with Scripture: namely the same Greek word being in both Rev19:15b and Rev7:17's "feed"... same as in Isa49:10

G4165 - poimanei - feed , shepherd , rule

--compare Ps2:9 with the LXX / Septuagint (G4165)

 

[ewq1938]

You should have mentioned in that post that the verb is in the future tense because the average person wouldn't know that from the spelling of the word.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule (G4165 poimainō) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

shall rule: poimanei (ποιμανεῖ) - verb tense: future indicative active


If the verb was in the present tense it would be spelled differently:

Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed (G4165 poimainō) my sheep.

Feed: poimaine (Ποίμαινε) - verb tense: present imperative active


So, when it is future tense it is spelled poimanei (ποιμανεῖ) and when it is present tense it is spelled poimaine (Ποίμαινε).

This info came from the Strong's concordance and the interlinear at biblehub.com

^ @Truth7t7 , I thought you said I could bold for emphasis (like you yourself use).


BTW, the blue in that post is the auto-links... I didn't change them to blue myself.
You yourself use bold and color, so it can't be that. ( )

And the italics shows the different language (namely, Greek, as opposed to the English... like most editors use, to differentiate). JFYI

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You should have mentioned in that post that the verb is in the future tense because the average person wouldn't know that from the spelling of the word.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule (G4165 poimainō) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

shall rule: poimanei (ποιμανεῖ) - verb tense: future indicative active

Pretty sure I've mentioned that more than one time, earlier in this thread (and perhaps the other current thread on a similar Subject).

I'm continually pointing out that Rev19:15b is "FUTURE tense" from that point in the chronology (i.e. His "RETURN" to the earth point in time).

If the verb was in the present tense it would be spelled differently:

Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed (G4165 poimainō) my sheep.

Feed: poimaine (Ποίμαινε) - verb tense: present imperative active

Another difference here is: this is saying "[YOU] feed" (in a command [/imperative] form) ... whereas the other is saying "[HE] shall feed" which is "future indicative" (basically, stating a fact re: a "future tense" thing)

So, when it is future tense it is spelled poimanei (ποιμανεῖ) and when it is present tense it is spelled poimaine (Ποίμαινε).

This info came from the Strong's concordance and the interlinear at biblehub.com

ditto what I said above

(one being a command issued to someone else [the "understood 'you'"--said TO "Simon" (Peter)]; the other basically stating a fact re: a future tense thing, re: what "He" Himself will do, from the point in time of His "return" to the earth Rev19)

 

[Truth7t7]

^ @Truth7t7 , I thought you said I could bold for emphasis (like you yourself use).


BTW, the blue in that post is the auto-links... I didn't change them to blue myself.
You yourself use bold and color, so it can't be that. ( )

And the italics shows the different language (namely, Greek, as opposed to the English... like most editors use, to differentiate). JFYI

You Know What's Up, So Do Eye, Chaos, Skip

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@Truth7t7 ,

No, I really do not see what it is about my posts, you're pointing out this time, that are so different from your own recent posts... I'm just trying to follow in your pristine foot-steps:


--your Post #1114 - your use of bold and (parenthesis) and italics and blue-colored links - https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4488793


--your Post #1120 - your use of bold and CAPS and a number of (parentheses) - https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4488902


--your Post #1141 - your use of numerous (parentheses) - https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4489882




(but... you can be assured Eye have already had a tracker on it, for a long time, so "your" [sic] not the only one --the jig is up, man)

 

[Absolutely]

But there isn't any solid scripture that says the rapture happens pre-tribulation.

This wouldn't even be a debate if there was a clear verse saying the rapture is an event entirely separate from the return of Christ.

The best possible clear verse that gives us a hint is "immediately after the tribulation of those days..." There will be signs in the heavens then the Son of Man will return.

The preceding verses describe "the tribulation of those days" just like how the great tribulation is described.

Truly baffled how you all don't read it for what it says.

""But there isn't any solid scripture that says the rapture happens pre-tribulation.""

You omit.
Your stand is a stand ON OMISSION.

Once the REST OF THE VERSES (the ones you leave out) are on the table.
Postrib rapture is destroyed.

It is that simple.

Omission.
Your deal is omission.

""This wouldn't even be a debate if there was a clear verse saying the rapture is an event entirely separate from the return of Christ""

Huh???

Oh yeah. That in fact also destroys postrib rapture.
Rev 14 should do it (if we do not tamper with the scripture)
But mat 25,plus acts 1 should be enough.

Still not convinced?
The dialogue at the last supper plus rev 19 should do it.

Still not convinced???
Jesus used lot and Noah as examples of his return.
And he framed both as PREJUDGEMENT...uh,that equals pretrib rapture.
100% pretrib rapture. The verses you requested.

But no...you will ignore all of that. You will not go there.


What about the AC?
Is that also omitted????

Psssst...he KILLS ALL REFUSING THE MARK.
ALL DIE OR TAKE THE MARK.
Yet another roadblock for a postrib rapture.
Yes. He kills all christians.

You have no case at all

 

[Absolutely]

We all have the same scriptures.
There is no verse that states he returns to gather- then he returns with a bride at another time.
If there was one you could show it.

You say we have no case because you are holding up Pre-trib doctrine as fact, then measuring everything according to that.
If we study the word without the lens of doctrine it speaks for itself.

Hebrews 9:28

so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

I know you like KJV so here it is

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Oh you guys definitely have convinced yourselves.

But keep noting that your stand does not have any traction once the rapture verses are factored in.

You just did that once again.
The second coming on white horses is NOT THE RAPTURE...as I have proven hands down.

Proven.

 

[Absolutely]

""Hebrews 9:28

so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

I know you like KJV so here it is

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.""

Yes. His first mission was to defeat sin.

And at the rapture he collects his spotless bride.

Good pretrib verses
Ty

 

[Absolutely]

But there isn't any solid scripture that says the rapture happens pre-tribulation.

This wouldn't even be a debate if there was a clear verse saying the rapture is an event entirely separate from the return of Christ.

The best possible clear verse that gives us a hint is "immediately after the tribulation of those days..." There will be signs in the heavens then the Son of Man will return.

The preceding verses describe "the tribulation of those days" just like how the great tribulation is described.

Truly baffled how you all don't read it for what it says.

Yes there are postrib return verses. He comes with millions of saints On HORSES.

But gathers his saints pretrib.
IN MAT 24 BEFORE THE FLOOD.
BEFORE THE FLOOD
BEFORE SODOM DESTROYED.
That one coming deal is so very debunked.
Totally debunked

 

[Absolutely]

IOW it is a fact that the coming on white horses of rev 19 WITH THE SAINTS WHO ARE ALREADY IN HEAVEN and have become the wife IN HEAVEN....
CAN NOT POSSIBLY BE the rapture.

All the rapture verses are framed in COMPLETELY DIFFERENT dynamic.
COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yes. He kills all christians.

[pre-tribber, here (me ) ]

Abs, what do you perceive the following verse to be about? (I may have asked you before, but I forget, lol ) :

"Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." - Daniel 12:12

 

[Absolutely]

[pre-tribber, here (me ) ]

Abs, what do you perceive the following verse to be about? (I may have asked you before, but I forget, lol ) :

"Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." - Daniel 12:12

It could be the gathering in rev 14.

Not sure