The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints
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The Great Tribulation is persecution of Christians not Jews. Christians will need the help not anyone else. Show me where Jews are being persecuted in the passage:
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
False Christ's are warned about.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
"Ye" are Christians.
So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.
Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
False Christ's are warned about.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
"Ye" are Christians.
So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.
Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
Matthew 24 is all about the nation Israel, Jesus was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel in his first coming (Matthew 15:24, Matthew 10:5-7)
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All that happens to Christians now. George Muller and his orphans often prayed and food would be at the door afterward, and stories like that are everywhere, just not so much in first world countries. Christians everywhere continuously suffer boycott and persecution. Sharing food and shelter is and has always been the obligation of the Christian. And, enduring to the end, well, certainly we can't expect to go to heaven if we turn our backs on God and join one of the countless demon worship societies, which members are rewarded for their devotion to the enemy. ("A Trip Into The Supernatural" on Youtube is very eye-opening).
So, really, the only diff between now and a future 7 year trib would be the ability to walk by sight instead of faith
So, really, the only diff between now and a future 7 year trib would be the ability to walk by sight instead of faith
But during the Tribulation, Israel will once again be God's favored nation, and any unbelieving gentiles, if they want to be saved then, must once again bless Israel in order to be saved (John 4:22).
That is why Jesus said what he said in the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 24.
The Great Tribulation is persecution of Christians not Jews. Christians will need the help not anyone else. Show me where Jews are being persecuted in the passage:
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
False Christ's are warned about.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
"Ye" are Christians.
So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.
Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
False Christ's are warned about.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
"Ye" are Christians.
So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.
Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
The armies will surround Jerusalem, and Gods wrath is upon the Jews, the Church is instructed to "Flee" Jerusalem during the tribulation.
(Jews) "Wrath Upon This People"
(Jews) "They Shall Fall By The Edge Of The Sword"
Luke 21:20-24KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Do you understand what Jesus meant in Matthew 15:24?
We gentiles in the Body of Christ were not the subject of all he said in Matthew 24. Jesus, being God, kept the mystery of the Body of Christ hidden throughout his first coming on Earth, only to reveal it to the apostle Paul after he saved him (Ephesians 3:9)
So when you quote all that you did from Matthew 24, you have to understand it as written only to the Jews of Israel. Jesus was only talking about Jews throughout the book of Matthew.
An example of the NT verse that you required
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
they here refers to only Jews.
We gentiles in the Body of Christ were not the subject of all he said in Matthew 24. Jesus, being God, kept the mystery of the Body of Christ hidden throughout his first coming on Earth, only to reveal it to the apostle Paul after he saved him (Ephesians 3:9)
So when you quote all that you did from Matthew 24, you have to understand it as written only to the Jews of Israel. Jesus was only talking about Jews throughout the book of Matthew.
An example of the NT verse that you required
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
they here refers to only Jews.
I prefer to use the term body of Christ to denote all Jews and gentiles that were saved under Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision (Romans 16:25), for clarity.
Those saved under the gospel of the circumcision that James Peter and John were preaching throughout Acts (Galatians 2:7-9), I would classify them as the little flock.
The word church can apply to both the BOC and the little flock but it is should not be synonymous to any of them, otherwise confusion will result.
Those saved under the gospel of the circumcision that James Peter and John were preaching throughout Acts (Galatians 2:7-9), I would classify them as the little flock.
The word church can apply to both the BOC and the little flock but it is should not be synonymous to any of them, otherwise confusion will result.
He meant what he said. He was only sent to the lost sheep of the House of Israel in his first coming.
So your doctrine " Jesus was speaking to Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles." in Matthew 24, is incorrect.
There are no Christians in the recipients of Matt 24, only Jews and Israel.
So your doctrine " Jesus was speaking to Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles." in Matthew 24, is incorrect.
There are no Christians in the recipients of Matt 24, only Jews and Israel.
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Does the fact that we now see through a glass darkly mean that our current Heavenly citizenship is of a different classification than when we see all things clearly?
Of course not.
Then why can’t both terms apply to the same thing, with the one term simply referring to a DEEPER understanding of the same thing, which was later revealed?
Of course not.
Then why can’t both terms apply to the same thing, with the one term simply referring to a DEEPER understanding of the same thing, which was later revealed?
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As I was saying to Ahwatukee
I prefer to use the term body of Christ to denote all Jews and gentiles that were saved under Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision (Romans 16:25), for clarity.
Those saved under the gospel of the circumcision that James Peter and John were preaching throughout Acts (Galatians 2:7-9), I would classify them as the little flock.
The word church can apply to both the BOC and the little flock but it is should not be synonymous to any of them, otherwise confusion will result.
I prefer to use the term body of Christ to denote all Jews and gentiles that were saved under Paul's gospel of the uncircumcision (Romans 16:25), for clarity.
Those saved under the gospel of the circumcision that James Peter and John were preaching throughout Acts (Galatians 2:7-9), I would classify them as the little flock.
The word church can apply to both the BOC and the little flock but it is should not be synonymous to any of them, otherwise confusion will result.
So, how does that make getting saved in the “7 yr trib” harder than now?
Tribulation tends to make people look up when they’re flat on their back - makes them get on their knees because the load gets too heavy. “SUFFERING IS REDEMPTIVE”.
The idea that it’s easier to be saved now in comparative peace while forced to walk by faith than during the pain of the “7 yr trib” when everyone walks by sight makes no sense, Biblically.
I think most would agree with me, if not for the unavoidable conclusion that the whole thing, if true, makes God titally unfair - denying people evidence He is real and His Word is true and forcing them to walk by faith for the entirety of Earth’s history, only to allow the “people of the 7 year trib” to walk by sight Not my Jesus 😊
Tribulation tends to make people look up when they’re flat on their back - makes them get on their knees because the load gets too heavy. “SUFFERING IS REDEMPTIVE”.
The idea that it’s easier to be saved now in comparative peace while forced to walk by faith than during the pain of the “7 yr trib” when everyone walks by sight makes no sense, Biblically.
I think most would agree with me, if not for the unavoidable conclusion that the whole thing, if true, makes God titally unfair - denying people evidence He is real and His Word is true and forcing them to walk by faith for the entirety of Earth’s history, only to allow the “people of the 7 year trib” to walk by sight
Not my Jesus 😊
So, how does that make getting saved in the “7 yr trib” harder than now?
Tribulation tends to make people look up when they’re flat on their back - makes them get on their knees because the load gets too heavy. “SUFFERING IS REDEMPTIVE”.
The idea that it’s easier to be saved now in comparative peace while forced to walk by faith than during the pain of the “7 yr trib” when everyone walks by sight makes no sense, Biblically.
I think most would agree with me, if not for the unavoidable conclusion that the whole thing, if true, makes God titally unfair - denying people evidence He is real and His Word is true and forcing them to walk by faith for the entirety of Earth’s history, only to allow the “people of the 7 year trib” to walk by sight Not my Jesus 😊
Tribulation tends to make people look up when they’re flat on their back - makes them get on their knees because the load gets too heavy. “SUFFERING IS REDEMPTIVE”.
The idea that it’s easier to be saved now in comparative peace while forced to walk by faith than during the pain of the “7 yr trib” when everyone walks by sight makes no sense, Biblically.
I think most would agree with me, if not for the unavoidable conclusion that the whole thing, if true, makes God titally unfair - denying people evidence He is real and His Word is true and forcing them to walk by faith for the entirety of Earth’s history, only to allow the “people of the 7 year trib” to walk by sight
Not my Jesus 😊
I explained why it is more difficult to you here
https://christianchat.com/threads/t...-by-christ-and-his-saints.197275/post-4487825
Perhaps it would help if you defined "Christian."
The Church is not at all mentioned in any of the chapters in Revelation that outline the details of the Tribulation years (6-19). All we see in those chapters is mention of "saints," even though John talked specifically about the Church in chapters one through three. So, it strains at reason to argue from silence that the Church is still on the earth during the actual Tribulation period since neither "Christian" nor "Church" are mentioned as being present during the horrid seven years of that 70th week.
Some may argue that the members of the Church are called "saints" throughout the NT, which is true, but when reading scripture, it's important to read what's actually written, and what is not written, because what is not written is not license to inject into the text what isn't there.
MM
The Church is not at all mentioned in any of the chapters in Revelation that outline the details of the Tribulation years (6-19). All we see in those chapters is mention of "saints," even though John talked specifically about the Church in chapters one through three. So, it strains at reason to argue from silence that the Church is still on the earth during the actual Tribulation period since neither "Christian" nor "Church" are mentioned as being present during the horrid seven years of that 70th week.
Some may argue that the members of the Church are called "saints" throughout the NT, which is true, but when reading scripture, it's important to read what's actually written, and what is not written, because what is not written is not license to inject into the text what isn't there.
MM
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Yes, but Jesus was speaking of evil, of darkness. He didn't mean "the world" as in "the earth". Like when the Lord said he called us out of the world.
Or how when the angel pours his vial out and the beasts kingdom is full of darkness. It doesn't become dark at that time. But we realize it was always that way.
It's like when Pilate thought he was ruling over Jesus. Pilates delusion was sinful, but not as great a sin as satans.
Or how when the angel pours his vial out and the beasts kingdom is full of darkness. It doesn't become dark at that time. But we realize it was always that way.
It's like when Pilate thought he was ruling over Jesus. Pilates delusion was sinful, but not as great a sin as satans.