^ Noted.
Got it.
*Asterisks*... two CAPS words... one italics word... all A-OK.
Good to know, thanks. = )
Got it.
*Asterisks*... two CAPS words... one italics word... all A-OK.
Good to know, thanks. = )
The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints
- Thread starter ewq1938
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Christ told us that Satan is the ruler of this world. That doesn't change until the 7th trump.
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince (ruler) of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Prince here doesn't mean second in command or something like we think in modern English, it means the ruler, the first in rank or power:
G758
a?´????
archo¯n
ar'-khone
Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.
G758
a?´????
archo¯n
Thayer Definition:
1) a ruler, commander, chief, leader
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: present participle of G757
Citing in TDNT: 1:488, 81
According to Christ, the ruler of this world was to come after Christ left. We know from Rev 12 that after He ascended there was a war in heaven and satan was cast to the Earth just as Christ said would happen. According to Jesus Christ himself, the one reigning/ruling the world after His ascension would be satan.
Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
According to this, the ruler of the known world at that time was Nebuchadnezzar by God's command. Who ultimately rules over creation? God. Does God allow others to rule this world? Yes. Satan is allowed by God to rule this world and is ruling now and will rule until the 7th trump.
Yes the 7th Angel/Trump will be the (Final Judgement) as Gods words clearly teaches below, there wont be a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on earth following this, this is Gods Final Judgement In Wrath, (The End)
Revelation 11:15-19KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
We must remember His "church" was, is, and has always been "those who follow the Lord". Did not Stephen refer to "the church that was in the wilderness"? Jesus promised to build a new church - "My church" - which would now consist of anyone who acknowledged Him as "the Christ", the Son of the living God", while previously His "wilderness church" was comprised only of those who looked for the arrival of "the Christ" in Bethlehem.
Moreover, while it's true that Jesus was only sent to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", His message was certainly for everyone. For instance, to whom did He warn of the destruction of Jerusalem, of which He said "this generation shall not pass" before it happened? Those who would join His church.
Church means "called out assembly" and yes, there were churches even in the OT.
But Body of Christ and church are not equivalent terms. The former is the mystery that was revealed to Paul
It's far harder to be saved during the tribulation when for the first time in history, people will be able to walk by sight instead of by faith?
The evidence will be everywhere what with all those crashed planes, trains, cars, and empty clothes lying all over the place where Christians used to be, right?
OK, got it."the Day of the Lord" is entirely EARTHLY-located.
(your reference to 2Th2:1 is speaking of ONE THING ONLY--see at bottom of this post--but v.2 is covering an "EARTHLY time-period" topic, that Paul is having to tell them is not present like some ppl were TELLING them it was)
So, no... you are conflating two distinct things.
I'll explain later, when I get more time.
That is "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event.
THIS ^ does not take place at His "RETURN" (see again Lk12:36-37,38,40, etc "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"--and the other passages I listed), which is "to the earth" Rev19
Verse 1 (of 2Th2--your reference AT TOP) is speaking of ONE *event* ("our Rapture [IN THE AIR]").. not a spans of time, nor two distinct points in time. Agreed.
Sure the devils believed Jesus died and rose again - you don't think every single devil on the planet was there at the Cross to discourage Jesus into coming down off it and forsaking humanity?If you are referring to what is stated in James 2:19? If so, the text actually says,
"You believe that God is one. You are doing well! Even the demons believe that, and shudder!"
[or, kjv] "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
Many false religions believe "God is one" / "there is one God"... but they completely disregard Jesus Christ.
[see Rom10:2-3... 1Jn2:23... etc]
I think they and Satan enjoyed watching him suffer so, no, I don't believe devils were at the cross trying to make Jesus get off of it and survive.
During the 7 year Tribulation, the gospel of the kingdom requires various works, together with faith in Jesus, in order to be saved. (Revelation 14:12)
Some of them are
- Rejecting the mark of beast, meaning you are out of the economic system, you cannot buy and sell and must trust God to supernaturally feed you. (James 5)
- Feeding and giving shelter to the persecuted Jews, who are the brethren of Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46)
- Enduring to the end (Matthew 24:13)
Hello ewq1938!
Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth has not yet taken place, but is yet a future event. His being cast down will be the result of the sounding of the 7th trumpet/3rd woe, which takes place in the middle of that last seven years. We know this because in Rev.12:13-14 when the Satan finds himself cast to the earth, he pursues the woman Israel, but the woman is cared for out in the wilderness by God for 1260 days, which is the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.
In further support of the war in heaven being yet future, in Rev.1:19, John was told to write:
What you have seen = Everything from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches, which also represents the entire church period
What will take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period.
Therefore, we are still living in the "what is now," i.e. the church period part of what John was told to write. Once the Lord appears to gather His church, then the "what must take place later" will begin.
When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, the authority of the earth went to Satan (Luke 4:5-6). Him and his angels being cast out is apart of the process of that authority of the earth and its nations being taken from Satan and reverting back to God and His Messiah. Rev.12:12 states that when Satan is cast to the earth he knows that his time is short, which is referring to the fact that he knows that from the time that he is cast out, that he only has 3 1/2 years left before the Lord returns to end the age, where at which time he will be thrown into to the Abyss and restricted there during the thousand year reign of Christ on this earth.
In further, further support, if the 7th trumpet/3rd woe, where Satan and his angels had already been cast to the earth, that would mean that the 5th trumpet/1st woe and 6th trumpet/2nd woe would have had to have taken place prior to that. That said, we have no record of demonic beings resembling locusts being released from the Abyss and tormenting the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of a scorpion. Nor have those four angels who are bound at the great Euphrates river been released to gathered their demonic army of 200 million, with which they kill a third of the earths inhabitants. In order for the 7th trumpet to have taken place, as you claim, the church would have had to have been gathered first and then all of the seals and trumpets 1 thru 6 would have to have taken place.
The fact is that, none of those plagues of wrath have yet taken place, because the church which is not appointed to suffer God's wrath, is still on the earth.
Since the casting out of Satan and his angels to the earth is the 3rd woe, which is an extreme warning to the earth and its inhabitants, if that had already happened it would be a pretty weak ineffective and unnoticeable event.
When Jesus said "the prince of this world is coming" He did not mean that Satan and his angels would be cast out of heaven. This is an applied assumption.
The body of Christ and the ekklesia translated as 'church' is speaking of the same body. The word ekklesia/church is not a generic term, but is a specific title reserved for the body of Christ which began with the disciples and is still in progress. Nether the OT saints nor the great tribulation saints during the tribulation, as well as the nation Israel existing during the tribulation, belong to the church, but fall under a different group or dispensation. In support of this Jesus said, "I will build My church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." 'I will build' is in the future indicative active tense, which would demonstrate that the church was not something that previously existed, but was something that was yet to to be built and is in fact sill in the process of being built.
If the OT saints prior to Christ appearing in the flesh, were apart of the church, they would also be resurrected when the Lord appears. However, they are resurrected at different phase of the first resurrection. Only those who belong to the church which began from the disciples until the resurrection takes place, will be resurrected and caught up. The OT saints of Israel will remain in the graves until they are resurrected at a later time after the church. In addition, the saints who come out of the great tribulation will not be resurrected until after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, as described in Rev.20:4-6.
How is it that the Body of Christ is not His church? Most would agree the two are synonymous.
Scripture clearly shows your claim that the 7th Angel/Trump Mark's the (Middle) of the tribulation is false
The 7th Angel/Trump is (The End) the time of God's (Final Judgement) as Rev 11:18 clearly describes below
Revelation 11:15-19KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
"The body of Christ" is three things:
1. Christ's literal body
2. The bread symbolic of his body
3. Those that follow him, believers, the Church, the Bride etc etc
The first believers, the first Body of Christ, the first to compose "The Church" and the first to become Christ's Bride were the 12 disciples who were Jewish. Gentiles were later allowed to join the Church/body of Christ and become His Bride.
1. Christ's literal body
2. The bread symbolic of his body
3. Those that follow him, believers, the Church, the Bride etc etc
The first believers, the first Body of Christ, the first to compose "The Church" and the first to become Christ's Bride were the 12 disciples who were Jewish. Gentiles were later allowed to join the Church/body of Christ and become His Bride.
The Great Tribulation is persecution of Christians not Jews. Christians will need the help not anyone else. Show me where Jews are being persecuted in the passage:
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
False Christ's are warned about.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
These are Christians being delivered up not Jews. Hated because of Christ's name! This proves that Christ is talking about Christians when he says "you".
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The gospel of the kingdom is about Christ and is delivered by Christians.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
"Ye" are Christians.
So, the AoD is going to affect "all the world" and Christians are the targets! Christians are persecuted and murdered for the testimony of Christ and because they carry his name.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
"Ye" is still the same people, Christians.
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
The elect are Christians not Jews per the context of this passage.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Again, a warning about false Christs given to "you" which are Christians.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Another reference to false Christ's and the Christian elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
You=Christians and yet again another false Christ reference. There is a false Christ coming to deceive Christians and those not deceived will be delivered up, persecuted and killed.
Nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
And here is the second coming. Again, nothing about Jews at all because Jews are not the target of the Antichrist and tribulation.
So, Satan did not stand to benefit if Jesus failed in His mission? It seems that the moment Jesus died, his doom was forever sealed, according to Revelation 12:12 KJV. What say you?
All that happens to Christians now. George Muller and his orphans often prayed and food would be at the door afterward, and stories like that are everywhere, just not so much in first world countries. Christians everywhere continuously suffer boycott and persecution. Sharing food and shelter is and has always been the obligation of the Christian. And, enduring to the end, well, certainly we can't expect to go to heaven if we turn our backs on God and join one of the countless demon worship societies, which members are rewarded for their devotion to the enemy. ("A Trip Into The Supernatural" on Youtube is very eye-opening).During the 7 year Tribulation, the gospel of the kingdom requires various works, together with faith in Jesus, in order to be saved. (Revelation 14:12)
Some of them are
Walking by sight, instead of faith is overrated.
- Rejecting the mark of beast, meaning you are out of the economic system, you cannot buy and sell and must trust God to supernaturally feed you. (James 5)
- Feeding and giving shelter to the persecuted Jews, who are the brethren of Jesus (Matthew 25:31-46)
- Enduring to the end (Matthew 24:13)
So, really, the only diff between now and a future 7 year trib would be the ability to walk by sight instead of faith
1 Corinthians 2:8 -
"8 which none of the rulers of this age has understood. For if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
[btw, the word "ruler" also being in this verse (among other similar verses): Ephesians 2:2 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) ...
]
"8 which none of the rulers of this age has understood. For if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
[btw, the word "ruler" also being in this verse (among other similar verses): Ephesians 2:2 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) ...
]
I say there is no biblical support that Satan or any devils tried to convince Christ to come down from the cross.