The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints

[Yahshua]

Forget Jesuit Futurism and get to know Protestant Historicism.

lol actually...There I be, among thou ranks.

This is symbolism. A "beast" is a kingdom, not a man. The "Beast" or "Little Horn" arises after the destruction of the four other beasts, namely Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece, and Rome. This Little Horn Beast was to arise among the Ten Horns, the ten barbarian tribes which invaded and destroyed the Roman Empire, and this Little Horn was to continue until the end of time and to its appointed day of destruction (which proves it's not an individual, but a kingdom).

Now, the symbolism refers to the other beasts "who had their lives prolonged". Since we cannot interpret this literally, seeing that these empires are long gone, the only explanation is that the "philosophies" of these kingdoms is what lives on, all of which make up the characteristics of the Little Horn:

Babylon: Sun god worship
Medo Persia: irrevocable code of law demanding strict (blind) obedience
Greece: human wisdom exalted over God's Word
Rome: iron fist (and nails) persecution and death of anyone who dares oppose it

I never argued that the beast was an individual. I agree it's a kingdom.

But the portion I marked in red isn't what the passage says. Notice the horn comes OUT OF the 4th beast and speaks, and then the 4th beast is destroyed by burning flame...this is the same destruction that we read from 2 Thessalonians 2 when the man of sin is destroyed with the brightness of the Messiah's coming.

Daniel 7:11
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


Daniel saw the pompously speaking horn UNTIL the 4th beast was destroyed by fire. After the horn (and the 4th beast it grew out of) is burned and destroyed, we're told...


Daniel 7:12
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


Now whether we argue that "dominion" was taken away by the 4th beast (Rome) or by the Messiah, we know that dominion means "world rule". So these kingdoms would still exist for a time and season. Well today, there is STILL a Babylon (Iraq), a Persia (Iran), a Greece, and a Rome (the seat of the papacy).

 

[Edify]

In Revelation, when the word 'years' is used, there is always a specific time mentioned: 7 years, 3 1/2 years, 1000 years, etc. In proper Bible interpretation, every phrase is to be taken literally first. When a phrase is written symbolically, it's to be taken symbolically when it makes no literal sense.
If the context is literal, so is the statement within the context, The same with symbolic context. The context cannot be literal while the statement is symbolic.
So 1,000 years IS 1,000 literal years.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

You do know a rod of iron is for destruction, and is not a scepter. It's for breaking clay pots as it is written.
Psalm 2:9.

 

[Truth7t7]

In Revelation, when the word 'years' is used, there is always a specific time mentioned: 7 years, 3 1/2 years, 1000 years, etc. In proper Bible interpretation, every phrase is to be taken literally first. When a phrase is written symbolically, it's to be taken symbolically when it makes no literal sense.
If the context is literal, so is the statement within the context, The same with symbolic context. The context cannot be literal while the statement is symbolic.
So 1,000 years IS 1,000 literal years.

Is it a literal day, a literal thousand years, or is it symbolic?

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Edify]

The word 'destroy' can mean to break up.
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

 

[Guojing]

How does 2 Peter 3:10 KJV fit into the popular scenario which says Jesus will come "as a thief in the night" to rapture away the church, after which the wicked and the Jews will be left behind to go through the tribulation?

2 Peter 3:10 KJV says the destruction which accompanies the Lord's coming "as a thief in the night" won't allow for even 7 more minutes of anything down here, let alone 7 more years of tribulation, yes?

Peter did not preach the rapture. He was talking about the 2nd coming.

 

[oyster67]

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

1000 year Millennial Reign is designation of time. This is plain and obvious. What kind of seeds did you come here to plant?

 

[oyster67]

Is it a literal day, a literal thousand years, or is it symbolic?

1000 years = 1000 years. Is this hard math for you?

 

[Phoneman-777]

lol actually...There I be, among thou ranks.



I never argued that the beast was an individual. I agree it's a kingdom.

But the portion I marked in red isn't what the passage says. Notice the horn comes OUT OF the 4th beast and speaks, and then the 4th beast is destroyed by burning flame...this is the same destruction that we read from 2 Thessalonians 2 when the man of sin is destroyed with the brightness of the Messiah's coming.

Daniel 7:11
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.


Daniel saw the pompously speaking horn UNTIL the 4th beast was destroyed by fire. After the horn (and the 4th beast it grew out of) is burned and destroyed, we're told...


Daniel 7:12
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.


Now whether we argue that "dominion" was taken away by the 4th beast (Rome) or by the Messiah, we know that dominion means "world rule". So these kingdoms would still exist for a time and season. Well today, there is STILL a Babylon (Iraq), a Persia (Iran), a Greece, and a Rome (the seat of the papacy).

Long live Historicism LOL

What we know is that when Daniel saw that the "beast was slain", it was during a "Judgment" scene near the end of time, the result of which was the kingdom handed over to the saints.

Since by this time the fourth beast Roman Empire has long since dropped off the stage of history, the "beast" that Daniel saw "was slain" during this Judgment can only be referring to the Little Horn itself, but Daniel calls it a "beast" because by the time of this time-of-the-end judgment, the papacy is well known to be a "beast" aka "the first beast of Revelation 13".

Then, Daniel looks back to the beginning of the Little Horn and describes the philosophies of the four beast living on through it.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Peter did not preach the rapture. He was talking about the 2nd coming.

The entire "secret rapture" idea is built around Jesus supposedly coming "as a thief in the night" to quietly whisk away the saints before the 7 year tribulation, but Peter says when Jesus comes as "a thief in the night", the Earth is going to be in a catastrophic state. How can there be 7 more years of anything?

 

[ewq1938]

Since by this time the fourth beast Roman Empire has long since dropped off the stage of history, the "beast" that Daniel saw "was slain" during this Judgment can only be referring to the Little Horn itself, but Daniel calls it a "beast" because by the time of this time-of-the-end judgment, the papacy is well known to be a "beast" aka "the first beast of Revelation 13".

Daniel never calls the little horn a beast. The little horn is part of the 4th beast and not a beast by himself. When the 4th beast is destroyed by fire, that includes the 11th horn on that beast.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Daniel never calls the little horn a beast. The little horn is part of the 4th beast and not a beast by himself. When the 4th beast is destroyed by fire, that includes the 11th horn on that beast.

The "slain beast" can't be the fourth beast because at the time the "slain beast" is slain, it is during the Judgment which is at the end of time after the Little Horn has run his mouth for centuries and centuries, and the fourth beast Roman Empire has long since disappeared.

 

[ewq1938]

The "slain beast" can't be the fourth beast because at the time the "slain beast" is slain, it is during the Judgment which is at the end of time after the Little Horn has run his mouth for centuries and centuries, and the fourth beast Roman Empire has long since disappeared.

Obviously the 4th beast was not Rome nor the little horn any Pope.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Daniel is clearly speaking of the 4th beast in verse 11. Not only that but he is also clear the first 3 beasts remain alive after the 4th beast is destroyed.

 

[Guojing]

The entire "secret rapture" idea is built around Jesus supposedly coming "as a thief in the night" to quietly whisk away the saints before the 7 year tribulation, but Peter says when Jesus comes as "a thief in the night", the Earth is going to be in a catastrophic state. How can there be 7 more years of anything?

As I said Peter was not preaching the rapture, it was a mystery that was revealed to the apostle Paul.

So I won't go to Peter, to understand what the rapture is about.

 

[Truth7t7]

1000 years = 1000 years. Is this hard math for you?

Is the scripture below teaching a literal day, a literal thousand years, or is it symbolic of the Lords Spirutual realm of no time?

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Obviously the 4th beast was not Rome nor the little horn any Pope.

So, the entire Protestant Reformation was wrong about the fourth beast being Rome? Surely, the "Lion with eagles wings" with "a man's heart" is clearly Babylon and King Nebuchadnezzer, followed by MP, Greece, and Rome, the "iron teeth" symbolizing the "iron monarchy of Rome", with Ten Horns coming out of it, which symbolizes the Ten Barbarian nations which arose out of it: Francs, Allemanii, Visogoths, Anglo-Saxons, Burgundians, Suevi, Ostrogoths, , Lombards, Heruli, and the Vandals, the last three being uprooted by the "Little Horn" papacy.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Daniel is clearly speaking of the 4th beast in verse 11. Not only that but he is also clear the first 3 beasts remain alive after the 4th beast is destroyed.

It cannot be the fourth Roman beast because Rome was long gone by the time of the end, just before the saints are handed the kingdom.

 

[Phoneman-777]

As I said Peter was not preaching the rapture, it was a mystery that was revealed to the apostle Paul.

So I won't go to Peter, to understand what the rapture is about.

So, what about Peter saying the Lord is going to come "as a thief in the night"? When is that? I absolutely believe that Peter and Paul were talking about the same event, because BOTH refer to the Lord's coming in the exact same way.

 

[Guojing]

So, what about Peter saying the Lord is going to come "as a thief in the night"? When is that? I absolutely believe that Peter and Paul were talking about the same event, because BOTH refer to the Lord's coming in the exact same way.

Jesus taught the 12 in the parable of the 10 virgins to "keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. " (Matthew 25:13).

So its not surprising to me that Peter repeats what he was taught about Christ 2nd coming for Israel in his letters to Israel.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Jesus taught the 12 in the parable of the 10 virgins to "keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. " (Matthew 25:13).

So its not surprising to me that Peter repeats what he was taught about Christ 2nd coming for Israel in his letters to Israel.

Are you saying that Paul refers to Jesus coming as a thief for the saints at the rapture and Peter refers to Jesus coming as a thief at the Second Coming after the tribulation?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Are you saying that Paul refers to Jesus coming as a thief for the saints at the rapture and [...]

[re: rapture]

When referring to "____ ARRIVES like a thief *in the night*, Paul is speaking of an earthly-located TIME-PERIOD which will ARRIVE [certain point in time and manner] to unfold upon the earth (consisting of "[a period of time of] Judgments followed by [a period of time of] Blessings,"--"the Day of the Lord, [which is how 2Th2:2 should read]," not merely "a singular 24-hr day")...




[Peter also speaks of this (though there is some question as to whether or not the phrase "in the night" is in Peter's text), but understand that it is a DURATION of much time "IN WHICH" a great many things transpire... all "earthly-located"]



When the text is speaking of Jesus HIMSELF (His PERSONAL "Return" to the earth), it states "[Behold, I come] AS A THIEF. [period; NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase is added when referring to HIS PERSON / HIS RETURN to the earth (Rev19 / Armageddon time-slot, in the chronology)]




So... Paul is making a point concerning the "ARRIVAL" of a particular, future, limited TIME PERIOD, and its RELATION [time-wise] TO the event we call "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"