THIRD TEMPLE NEWS
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Did God ever demonstrate approval of David's sin? So, why would God lend credibility and approval to such a blasphemous temple by calling it "the temple of God"?
"Israel" and "Gentiles" refers to those "in Christ" and those not in Christ, according to Galatians 3:29 KJV. The "time of the Gentiles" refers to the 1,260 years of Papal persecution of God's "Israel" the church. Are those people over there laying plans to build a temple so they can stick their middle finger in the face of God every morning and evening "in Christ"?
Nah, we all know full well the NT refers to the church over and over as "the temple of God" by use of the Greek "Naos" and that is exactly the same word Paul used in 2 Thess. 2. You are following Jesuit lies that the Protestant Reformers rejected then, but are now embraced by millions of unskilled Bible scholars today.
"Israel" and "Gentiles" refers to those "in Christ" and those not in Christ, according to Galatians 3:29 KJV. The "time of the Gentiles" refers to the 1,260 years of Papal persecution of God's "Israel" the church. Are those people over there laying plans to build a temple so they can stick their middle finger in the face of God every morning and evening "in Christ"?
Nah, we all know full well the NT refers to the church over and over as "the temple of God" by use of the Greek "Naos" and that is exactly the same word Paul used in 2 Thess. 2. You are following Jesuit lies that the Protestant Reformers rejected then, but are now embraced by millions of unskilled Bible scholars today.
your funny man
when Jesus returns and takes up residence there, I pray you remember what you said here, if your there
S
There are many views on interpretations of Revelation and those that think that Rev 11 is suggesting a prophecy of a rebuilt temple have very strong reasons to do so.
Now you have a strong opinion on why you interpret it the way you do, but others believe they have a stronger reason.
It appears at first reading that calling the two witnesses the two olive trees and the two lampstands, and knowing what that meant in Zech (that the temple would be rebuilt by Zerubbabel and his enemies would not be able to stop it) suggest that, that is the message in Rev 11. Those that believe that have extremely strong evidence for that interpretation in the reference to Zech 4. It is so strong I don't know why anyone would ignore it. The key to understanding it is clearly handed to us with the statement They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a]
Rev 11:
11 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a]
Now check out Zech 4
1 Then the angel who talked with me returned and woke me up, like someone awakened from sleep. 2 He asked me, “What do you see?”
I answered, “I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl at the top and seven lamps on it, with seven channels to the lamps. 3 Also there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left.”
4 I asked the angel who talked with me, “What are these, my lord?”
5 He answered, “Do you not know what these are?”
“No, my lord,” I replied.
6 So he said to me, “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty.
7 “What are you, mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of ‘God bless it! God bless it!’”
8 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 9 “The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this temple; his hands will also complete it. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you.
10 “Who dares despise the day of small things, since the seven eyes of the Lord that range throughout the earth will rejoice when they see the chosen capstone[a] in the hand of Zerubbabel?”
11 Then I asked the angel, “What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?”
12 Again I asked him, “What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?”
13 He replied, “Do you not know what these are?”
“No, my lord,” I said.
14 So he said, “These are the two who are anointed to[b] serve the Lord of all the earth.”
So setting aside the opinions of these men you mention and whether they were prone to violence I think that if you are honest you will see that if one were to use only the bible as their method of interpreting Revelation they would have strong reason to think that Rev 11 is a prophecy of a rebuilt temple.
I agree that it will not be approved by God for Israel to do it, God is not putting his stamp of approval on the Israeli efforts to reestablish their temple worship, it will simply be something that they do and God has foretold it before it happens.
Now before you start calling me a Jesuit or a Dispensationalist, or a Darby-ite or a johnny come lately, please skip all that and tell me another interpretation of Rev 11 if it is not referring to a rebuilding of the temple prophecy. I am sure you have a spiritualization. I hope it does not have to do with the pope as I find them rather outdated. What did E.G. White have to say about it?
Now you have a strong opinion on why you interpret it the way you do, but others believe they have a stronger reason.
It appears at first reading that calling the two witnesses the two olive trees and the two lampstands, and knowing what that meant in Zech (that the temple would be rebuilt by Zerubbabel and his enemies would not be able to stop it) suggest that, that is the message in Rev 11. Those that believe that have extremely strong evidence for that interpretation in the reference to Zech 4. It is so strong I don't know why anyone would ignore it. The key to understanding it is clearly handed to us with the statement They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a]
Rev 11:
11 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a]
Now check out Zech 4
1 Then the angel who talked with me returned and woke me up, like someone awakened from sleep. 2 He asked me, “What do you see?”
I answered, “I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl at the top and seven lamps on it, with seven channels to the lamps. 3 Also there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left.”
4 I asked the angel who talked with me, “What are these, my lord?”
5 He answered, “Do you not know what these are?”
“No, my lord,” I replied.
6 So he said to me, “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the Lord Almighty.
7 “What are you, mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of ‘God bless it! God bless it!’”
8 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 9 “The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this temple; his hands will also complete it. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you.
10 “Who dares despise the day of small things, since the seven eyes of the Lord that range throughout the earth will rejoice when they see the chosen capstone[a] in the hand of Zerubbabel?”
11 Then I asked the angel, “What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?”
12 Again I asked him, “What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?”
13 He replied, “Do you not know what these are?”
“No, my lord,” I said.
14 So he said, “These are the two who are anointed to[b] serve the Lord of all the earth.”
So setting aside the opinions of these men you mention and whether they were prone to violence I think that if you are honest you will see that if one were to use only the bible as their method of interpreting Revelation they would have strong reason to think that Rev 11 is a prophecy of a rebuilt temple.
I agree that it will not be approved by God for Israel to do it, God is not putting his stamp of approval on the Israeli efforts to reestablish their temple worship, it will simply be something that they do and God has foretold it before it happens.
Now before you start calling me a Jesuit or a Dispensationalist, or a Darby-ite or a johnny come lately, please skip all that and tell me another interpretation of Rev 11 if it is not referring to a rebuilding of the temple prophecy. I am sure you have a spiritualization. I hope it does not have to do with the pope as I find them rather outdated. What did E.G. White have to say about it?
The problem with your end time scenario is that there's always activity going on down here on the planet, but the prophecies plainly depict a coming destruction of the Earth where it will lie destroyed, desolate, empty, silent, dead Earth. Y'all just gonna gloss over all those verses and pretend they aren't there?
S
It could be referred to by the Jews as such. The temple was called the temple of God after the resurrection even though Jesus was the only sacrifice for sin. It has a historical precedence for being called such. When it was called that in the New Testament it was not considered a sin for a Jewish Christian to use that phrase when referring to it. Until 70 AD they did not tell one another "What did you just say? How dare you call that the Temple of God? Go wash your mouth out with soap right now young man!"
You are putting your own spin on things. It is a very weak argument and I doubt any scholars use it.
You are putting your own spin on things. It is a very weak argument and I doubt any scholars use it.
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I'd be happy to give my thoughts on Rev. 11 and I'm not concerned about what EGW has to say, because everyone knows I only point to the Bible for evidence of my spiritual propositions. But, the point at hand is why so many Christians readily accept that Paul was referring to a supersonically blasphemous place where a collective Jewish middle finger will be held up in God's face as "the temple of God"...when we all know full well that the Church is God's only temple on Earth in the NT.
E
never said he did
Lol, I am reminded of the temple in Jesus day where the blasphemous high priest defiled the temple with their blasphemous anti God rhetoric and beliefs, even being the ones who started the movement to crucify Christ. What did Jesus call that blasphemous temple?
the house of his father the temple of God
yeah, you forgot that didn’t you?
what did hebrews say? Day after day they continually sacrifice a sacrifice that can never take away sin?
nope
in Romans 11, Israel is Israel, blinded in part, will always have a remnant, the natural branches who have been cut off but will be grafted back in, an enemy concerning the gospel but beloved concerning the promises and at a point in time will repent and all be saved
gentiles are gentiles, paul is warning Gentiles not to do the very thing you are doing and be proud, but to fear, because just just as God did not spare them he may not spare us either, in fact, he said all Isreal (non gentile). Will be saved.
or the OT prophets who said the Isreal who was scattered because of her sin will be regathered again and made one and the gentile nations who treated her badly will be judged,
I can go on and on and on
study the whole Bible man, not just a few passages, it will do you well
Lol, I am reminded of the temple in Jesus day where the blasphemous high priest defiled the temple with their blasphemous anti God rhetoric and beliefs, even being the ones who started the movement to crucify Christ. What did Jesus call that blasphemous temple?
the house of his father the temple of God
yeah, you forgot that didn’t you?
what did hebrews say? Day after day they continually sacrifice a sacrifice that can never take away sin?
nope
in Romans 11, Israel is Israel, blinded in part, will always have a remnant, the natural branches who have been cut off but will be grafted back in, an enemy concerning the gospel but beloved concerning the promises and at a point in time will repent and all be saved
gentiles are gentiles, paul is warning Gentiles not to do the very thing you are doing and be proud, but to fear, because just just as God did not spare them he may not spare us either, in fact, he said all Isreal (non gentile). Will be saved.
or the OT prophets who said the Isreal who was scattered because of her sin will be regathered again and made one and the gentile nations who treated her badly will be judged,
I can go on and on and on
study the whole Bible man, not just a few passages, it will do you well
S
I've already addressed that as a weak argument. Calling it the temple of God in the New Testament after the resurrection is not suggesting that it replaced Christ. It is what they had always called it. You're accusing the writers of something they did not intend and then asking why?
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Wrong, friend
Jesus referred to the Jewish temple as "MY house" several times during His life - singular, possessive pronoun. Eg.: "Do not make My Father's house a den of thieves".
However:
Just before His crucifixion when Jesus finally resigned Himself to the fact that He would not be accepted by His people, He uttered a heart-wrenching soliloquy greater than Hamlet's, "Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stoneth them that are sent to thee, how often I would have gathered you under Me, as a hen gathereth her chickens, but you would not! Therefore, YOUR house is left unto you desolate." New pronoun working here, right or wrong?
It was then and there that the only temple of God that would remain on Earth would be the church.
Jesus referred to the Jewish temple as "MY house" several times during His life - singular, possessive pronoun. Eg.: "Do not make My Father's house a den of thieves".
However:
Just before His crucifixion when Jesus finally resigned Himself to the fact that He would not be accepted by His people, He uttered a heart-wrenching soliloquy greater than Hamlet's, "Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets and stoneth them that are sent to thee, how often I would have gathered you under Me, as a hen gathereth her chickens, but you would not! Therefore, YOUR house is left unto you desolate." New pronoun working here, right or wrong?
It was then and there that the only temple of God that would remain on Earth would be the church.
JEWS WILL REBUILD the THIRD ONE.
JESUS HIMSELF WILL REBUID THE FOURTH ONE.
HE deals with Mortal Jews going into his Kingdom, in somewhat differently than HE does with RAPTURED Jews and Gentiles.
You may think the so-called Church will be the main worship Center, but NO, it is the Temple that will be the Main Worship Center for the Mortals. In fact, Jesus and the Apostles NEVER called it THE CHURCH. It was called the ASSEMBLY, the same as the Old Testament times.
Matthew 16:17-19 (NASB)
17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
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Sorry, Scribe, but I accidently hit Post Reply, and it timed out before I knew it. That above quote is the most famous quote, where people think JESUS used the word CHURCH. But HE NEVER used the WORD CHURCH. That meaning was ADDED to the definition about 200 AD.
Here is what HE SAID, and I found a TRANSLATION that STILL USES the ORIGINAL WORD.
Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
QUOTE:
Greek NASB Number: 1577
Greek Word: ἐκκλησία
Transliterated Word: ekklêsia
Root: from 1537 and 2564;
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--
New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
:END QUOTE.
There is the Word ekklêsia and what the word meant at the time that JESUS spoke it.
SOME people want to say JESUS REPLACED the Jewish Believers with the CHURCH, and HE DID NOT.
Mal. 3:6 tells us that GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, and they expect us to believe that GOD DOES CHANGE, and they expect us to believe THAT true believes of Judaism, are Saved the SAME WAY AS US. NOT! Here is where HE is talking to people of the last of the Old Testament Fold, telling them HE has other Sheep not of this Fold, referring to the New Testament Fold.
John 10:14-17 (HCSB)
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
15 as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold {O.T. Fold, co-equal Part of the Bride of Christ}; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock {at the Rapture}, one shepherd.
17 This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.
Now if you remember the Birthday of the N.T. FOLD, is not until the feast of Pentecost AFTER HIS ASSENTION. CHURCH was what mankind wanted to call the N.W. Fold, probably because they wanted to distance themselves from the JEWS. IT WAS NOT WHAT JESUS CALLED US, so see how much easier in the above Scripture is to understand when YOU LEAVE WHAT JESUS SAID, ALONE, and not Tamper with it.
Here is what HE SAID, and I found a TRANSLATION that STILL USES the ORIGINAL WORD.
Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
QUOTE:
Greek NASB Number: 1577
Greek Word: ἐκκλησία
Transliterated Word: ekklêsia
Root: from 1537 and 2564;
Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--
New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
:END QUOTE.
There is the Word ekklêsia and what the word meant at the time that JESUS spoke it.
SOME people want to say JESUS REPLACED the Jewish Believers with the CHURCH, and HE DID NOT.
Mal. 3:6 tells us that GOD DOES NOT CHANGE, and they expect us to believe that GOD DOES CHANGE, and they expect us to believe THAT true believes of Judaism, are Saved the SAME WAY AS US. NOT! Here is where HE is talking to people of the last of the Old Testament Fold, telling them HE has other Sheep not of this Fold, referring to the New Testament Fold.
John 10:14-17 (HCSB)
14 “I am the good shepherd. I know My own sheep, and they know Me,
15 as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 But I have other sheep that are not of this fold {O.T. Fold, co-equal Part of the Bride of Christ}; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock {at the Rapture}, one shepherd.
17 This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.
Now if you remember the Birthday of the N.T. FOLD, is not until the feast of Pentecost AFTER HIS ASSENTION. CHURCH was what mankind wanted to call the N.W. Fold, probably because they wanted to distance themselves from the JEWS. IT WAS NOT WHAT JESUS CALLED US, so see how much easier in the above Scripture is to understand when YOU LEAVE WHAT JESUS SAID, ALONE, and not Tamper with it.
Please keep reading the Bible to where Jesus disowned it and went from calling it "My house" to "YOUR house is left unto you desolate."
Wait, does that mean our Lord is now without a temple? No way...
When Peter told Jesus that He was the Christ and the Son of the living God, Jesus informed Peter that He is the Rock upon which He is building something. And what was it? "MY CHURCH", against which the gates of hell cannot prevail. The "Temple of God", according to Jesus Himself is now "MY CHURCH".
In Romans 11, Paul merely says the blind Jewish natural branches may individually be grafted back into the Vine - along with the wild ones - on condition that all become "Spiritual Jews" -- which thing you guys refuse to acknowledge, though Paul says only those who are "in Christ" are "Abraham's seed"...though Paul says the New Covenant is only with "the house of Israel" which are those "in Christ"...though Paul refers to the gentile church in Galatia as "the Israel of God", as well as other examples.
The "Temple of God" is now "My Church" and will never be some Earthly building, especially one in which Jewish priests drop a dead lamb on the altar and then turn and stick a middle finger to the heavens and say, "Here's what we think of Your so-called 'Lamb of God', Lord..."
Wait, does that mean our Lord is now without a temple? No way...
When Peter told Jesus that He was the Christ and the Son of the living God, Jesus informed Peter that He is the Rock upon which He is building something. And what was it? "MY CHURCH", against which the gates of hell cannot prevail. The "Temple of God", according to Jesus Himself is now "MY CHURCH".
In Romans 11, Paul merely says the blind Jewish natural branches may individually be grafted back into the Vine - along with the wild ones - on condition that all become "Spiritual Jews" -- which thing you guys refuse to acknowledge, though Paul says only those who are "in Christ" are "Abraham's seed"...though Paul says the New Covenant is only with "the house of Israel" which are those "in Christ"...though Paul refers to the gentile church in Galatia as "the Israel of God", as well as other examples.
The "Temple of God" is now "My Church" and will never be some Earthly building, especially one in which Jewish priests drop a dead lamb on the altar and then turn and stick a middle finger to the heavens and say, "Here's what we think of Your so-called 'Lamb of God', Lord..."
So, I guess we are to believe God will look down on a building in which the dead lambs on the altar symbolize an official, national, defiant Jewish rejection of the Lamb of God - God's only dear begotten Son - which He gave as a sacrifice for the sins of the world...and say, "Yep, that's My temple alright".
Ephesians-
2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Ephesians-
2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];
2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Look, let's not pretend that the whole "new temple in Jerusalem" idea doesn't revolve around the erroneous 16th century Jesuit interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2. All those OT texts about temple restoration refer to the post-Babylonian captivity, not end times prophecy. They have nothing to do with some future blasphemous monument to theological error that the "Jews" (more precisely, the descendants of the pagan Khazars who co-opted the Jewish religion) are talking about getting built today.