I think the teachings on ' election ' and predestination are very much influenced by Calvinism. It has permeated into many denominations and traditions that really all place ' election as being ' to salvation ' in some sense . Of course typically the Arminain adds ' according to foreknowledge ' . Still placing election and Predestination ( often this is taught as basically the same thing ) before creation.
Calvinists are preaching a false message .
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Ok I will show you Rom11:2
is one of many examples :
"God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.( of those whom God elected to salvation )Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,"
also known as to predestinate from the Greek translation.
@throughfaith would you please give me one or even a few verse on how salvation occurs?
God has not cast away ISRAEL . The whole context is about their TEMPORARY hardening . Their TEMPORARY setting aside . He has not cast them off permanently. His promises ( whom he foreknew) to those ( ISRAEL ) whom he foreknew ,still stand and will be realised in the future when ISREAL turn back to the Lord ( whom ( ISRAEL ) HE foreknew ) .
Those he knew before are ISRAEL .
Those he knew before are ISRAEL .
FYI Trinity too is a word that speaks of a concept found throughout the Bible Yet that word is not even mentioned. But Election and the Elect are. FYI the doctrine of the Trinity is biblical as the doctrine of "Election" is.
If you are going to be rude and insult and speak to us presuming we are ignorant, you may want to find those who agree with you, that way your ego is preserved.
If you are going to be rude and insult and speak to us presuming we are ignorant, you may want to find those who agree with you, that way your ego is preserved.
Eph 1.13- 14
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Can you do so without going to them old testament verses in John 6 ?
This is a challenge to those that hold to covenant theology.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Can you do so without going to them old testament verses in John 6 ?
This is a challenge to those that hold to covenant theology.
No doubt due to verses such as Ephesians 1:4-6
The bible says this no where but is forced into the text because it needs to support the overall picture.
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According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Amen . And the adoption? when does that happen ? Rom 8.23 . Notice I can tell you when the adoption is and what it is with one clear verse . Here it is in these verses .
19For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH !!!! for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING !!!! for( FOR WHAT ? ) THE ADOPTION, ( AND WHAT IS IT ) to wit, the REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY.
So when you read ephesians 1 we can see when predestination takes place . After we believed . Along with verse 3. blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus. Including what was chosen before. That believers go on to be holy and blameless ect .
19For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH !!!! for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING !!!! for( FOR WHAT ? ) THE ADOPTION, ( AND WHAT IS IT ) to wit, the REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY.
So when you read ephesians 1 we can see when predestination takes place . After we believed . Along with verse 3. blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus. Including what was chosen before. That believers go on to be holy and blameless ect .
Hi throughfaith,
As I've said before if you are an orphan and another family takes you in then they have adopted you. Paul is talking about that Already but not yet tension. We' are saved Already, yet we await that final glorification -Not yet.
So in the 'legal' sense we are 'Already adopted into the kingdom of God, Paul refers to this at Romans 8:15 (just a few verses before the verses you have supplied). We already enjoy the benefits of Sons. Paul takes this further when we get to the verses you provided. We will receive the fullness of ''adoption'' ie, resurrected bodies -perfect and free from sin..
So as one commentator has put it (in my own words). As adopted son/daughters we already enjoy some of the privilege's, but not yet fully at present. But we will enjoy all the privileges of heirs with Christ with the redemption of our bodies when Glorified.
Already - Romans 8:15
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
Not yet - Romans 8:23
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
As I've said before if you are an orphan and another family takes you in then they have adopted you. Paul is talking about that Already but not yet tension. We' are saved Already, yet we await that final glorification -Not yet.
So in the 'legal' sense we are 'Already adopted into the kingdom of God, Paul refers to this at Romans 8:15 (just a few verses before the verses you have supplied). We already enjoy the benefits of Sons. Paul takes this further when we get to the verses you provided. We will receive the fullness of ''adoption'' ie, resurrected bodies -perfect and free from sin..
So as one commentator has put it (in my own words). As adopted son/daughters we already enjoy some of the privilege's, but not yet fully at present. But we will enjoy all the privileges of heirs with Christ with the redemption of our bodies when Glorified.
Already - Romans 8:15
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
Not yet - Romans 8:23
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
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Wrong! Can you be intellectually honest?
the context of my comment was the word " Foreknew"
which you responded with
"Foreknew is a word not a doctrine."
Elect or " the Elect" contextually have meaning with the word " Foreknew" which you asked me for Biblical verse, I provided.
I am going to let this go because I can see or I will say I can foreknow you will have some issues. And I will recommend this tread be closed because you are saying we are adding to scripture. You don't want open discussion or debate you want to insult. Do not respond to me again. we are done.
Thank you
the context of my comment was the word " Foreknew"
which you responded with
"Foreknew is a word not a doctrine."
Elect or " the Elect" contextually have meaning with the word " Foreknew" which you asked me for Biblical verse, I provided.
I am going to let this go because I can see or I will say I can foreknow you will have some issues. And I will recommend this tread be closed because you are saying we are adding to scripture. You don't want open discussion or debate you want to insult. Do not respond to me again. we are done.
Thank you
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