Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?

[UCA4J]

if it was we would all be given $100 for converting right?

not necessarily.
Would all non believers be saved ?

 

[LostSoul]

You speak about "spiritually discerning" these mega churches, yet seem not able to see these "churches" are a part of His Great plan to cause the unfaithful to fall into the apostasy they deserve. That, friend, is how close we really are to the end.


What I see here is a great deal of false advertising. I'm wondering if you're here to stir the pot, or whether you're on their side? As I read your posts, they are mostly one-sided for the false church. It's my wish that your eyes be opened & the light of Christ would shine on you.

Agree.
I have stopped engaging with the particular member. If you click their name you can choose to ignore them, then you won't see any more of their posts.

 

[shittim]

"Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?"

Perhaps we are more willing to believe the best in others.

 

[Scribe]

Those who seek the Lord with their whole heart by prayer and study of the Word of God, fellowshipping with the Holy Spirit and repenting of all known sin and walking in holiness will have illumination and come out of a church that is preaching false doctrine.

When we follow the Holy Spirit and leave a church that is preaching false doctrine and wonder why others don't see it, we must remember that someone else left before we did. Those that are there today will see what the Lord wants them to see as they continue to seek Him with their whole heart.

 

[Mission21]

Hello everybody,

I hope you are all well.
I have been lurking on this forum for some time and decided to join - thanks to the administrators for approving my profile very quickly.

The thing I'd like to get people's views on is whether we as a broad church are more accepting of charlatans and narcissists than we should be.

I had a bad experience at a so called church (Hillsong) about 2 years ago and haven't returned since.
I left because I didn't like how people were manipulated into tithing (not a requirement for modern day Christians) and side-lined if they didn't give in to the manipulation.
I gave to the Church myself, but eventually realised I was doing so under compulsion which is when my eyes were opened to the manipulation.

I also didn't like how closed the 'books' (financial records) were.
The pastor always said the the 'books' were open and free for all to examine, but when a couple of people from the church asked to look at the 'books', they were simply forwarded to the statutory accounts on a government website.
The statutory accounts provide a summary, not a full breakdown.

The pastor and his wife were also living the life of Riley: new car paid for by church, utility bills paid for by church, travel expenses paid for by church, near £40k a year wage (which doesn't include his wife's wage!).
I even witnessed the pastor say during a sermon that he is "God's gift to the church"! Massive ego.

I came to the conclusion that the church was being run like a business.
I did some research on Hillsong and realised that Hillsong is definitely money orientated.

Any thoughts?

Sorry in advance if this divides opinion.

During my spiritual journey..from 1970's,
- I was involved in several churches..
- From mega church..to house church.
- Denominational & Non denominational.
----
In many churches..often, the focus is on..
- Money, power, status, etc..
'Money issue' in mega church is obvious/inevitable.
- Building expense.
- Programs, staff, etc..
----
Hillsong church problem/issue is not new...
- I have been observing the same issue in mega churches..from 1980's.
---
Due to pandemic/Covid 19, many mega church buildings/properties are not much used..nowadays.
---
Maybe, it is time to search/reflect on..the meaning of the 'Church' again.

Blessings,

Note:
I wrote similar comment/post on other threads..some time ago.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Those who seek the Lord with their whole heart by prayer and study of the Word of God, fellowshipping with the Holy Spirit and repenting of all known sin and walking in holiness will have illumination and come out of a church that is preaching false doctrine.

When we follow the Holy Spirit and leave a church that is preaching false doctrine and wonder why others don't see it, we must remember that someone else left before we did. Those that are there today will see what the Lord wants them to see as they continue to seek Him with their whole heart.

Optimistic, but I see your point.
However this does leave the question of how absolute rubbish teachers and preachers rise to levels like mega church, do they not study the word at all. The latest a greatest example is Steven Furdic, I think he genuinely loves the Lord, but man that dude preached a bunch of nothing as if he has no understanding of scripture. What do we make of that.

 

[Scribe]

There is a place near the Lord whereby a man can stand upon a rock of truth and reveal Christ from the Word under the empowerment of the Holy Spirit that will shake people to their core and they will know that they have had an encounter with the Living God and will never be the same as a result.

This kind of preaching comes from a life given wholly to the Word of God and prayer. That prayer and study of the Word transforms a man and changes him to 'another man' so that when they step up and begin to preach there is a weightiness and an atmosphere that comes into the room that makes everyone pay attention and it does not stop until the last word is spoken. This type of preaching gift is rare because the price required by the man of God is rarely paid. When such a man does pay the price and begins to operate in this type of anointing the hungry saints of God who are tired of the pabulum and positive self help messages will come from a hundred miles around to watch the man burn with the Glory of God and soak up the Word from Heaven for the hour. And it will probably be a megachurch.
There are that many hungry people who are just waiting to find that kind of preaching.

 

[Scribe]

Optimistic, but I see your point.
However this does leave the question of how absolute rubbish teachers and preachers rise to levels like mega church, do they not study the word at all. The latest a greatest example is Steven Furdic, I think he genuinely loves the Lord, but man that dude preached a bunch of nothing as if he has no understanding of scripture. What do we make of that.

I agree but so do most pastors of every church small and large. They almost all preach about experience and experience of others instead of expository preaching or exegesis.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Hello everybody,

I hope you are all well.
I have been lurking on this forum for some time and decided to join - thanks to the administrators for approving my profile very quickly.

The thing I'd like to get people's views on is whether we as a broad church are more accepting of charlatans and narcissists than we should be.

I had a bad experience at a so called church (Hillsong) about 2 years ago and haven't returned since.
I left because I didn't like how people were manipulated into tithing (not a requirement for modern day Christians) and side-lined if they didn't give in to the manipulation.
I gave to the Church myself, but eventually realised I was doing so under compulsion which is when my eyes were opened to the manipulation.

I also didn't like how closed the 'books' (financial records) were.
The pastor always said the the 'books' were open and free for all to examine, but when a couple of people from the church asked to look at the 'books', they were simply forwarded to the statutory accounts on a government website.
The statutory accounts provide a summary, not a full breakdown.

The pastor and his wife were also living the life of Riley: new car paid for by church, utility bills paid for by church, travel expenses paid for by church, near £40k a year wage (which doesn't include his wife's wage!).
I even witnessed the pastor say during a sermon that he is "God's gift to the church"! Massive ego.

I came to the conclusion that the church was being run like a business.
I did some research on Hillsong and realised that Hillsong is definitely money orientated.

Any thoughts?

Sorry in advance if this divides opinion.

Welcome to CC, you won't find much agreement here but if you can filter through the septic sludge there is some good information here.
I agree that Hillsong type of churches are rubbish, for many more reasons than just the monetary greed. Thier songs and teachings are absolute twattle. (I guess I can use that word here). Anyway find you a confessional conservative LCMS church, they are hard to follow at first, but in a few short months you will know what's going on.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I agree but so do most pastors of every church small and large. They almost all preach about experience and experience of others instead of expository preaching or exegesis.

Maybe in evangelical circles. I left that mess over a year ago.
Oh, and I call that narca-gesis.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Hello everybody,

I hope you are all well.
I have been lurking on this forum for some time and decided to join - thanks to the administrators for approving my profile very quickly.

The thing I'd like to get people's views on is whether we as a broad church are more accepting of charlatans and narcissists than we should be.

I had a bad experience at a so called church (Hillsong) about 2 years ago and haven't returned since.
I left because I didn't like how people were manipulated into tithing (not a requirement for modern day Christians) and side-lined if they didn't give in to the manipulation.
I gave to the Church myself, but eventually realised I was doing so under compulsion which is when my eyes were opened to the manipulation.

I also didn't like how closed the 'books' (financial records) were.
The pastor always said the the 'books' were open and free for all to examine, but when a couple of people from the church asked to look at the 'books', they were simply forwarded to the statutory accounts on a government website.
The statutory accounts provide a summary, not a full breakdown.

The pastor and his wife were also living the life of Riley: new car paid for by church, utility bills paid for by church, travel expenses paid for by church, near £40k a year wage (which doesn't include his wife's wage!).
I even witnessed the pastor say during a sermon that he is "God's gift to the church"! Massive ego.

I came to the conclusion that the church was being run like a business.
I did some research on Hillsong and realised that Hillsong is definitely money orientated.

Any thoughts?

Sorry in advance if this divides opinion.

I'm gonna hook you up.
https://youtube.com/user/SemperReformanda1517

https://youtube.com/c/RyanReevesM

 

[Magenta]

"Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?"

Perhaps we are more willing to believe the best in others.

If only that were true! It obviously is not a lot of the time.

 

[Magenta]

I agree that Hillsong type of churches are rubbish, for many more reasons than just the monetary greed.
Thier songs and teachings are absolute twattle. (I guess I can use that word here).

I like some of their songs I think their praise teams do an awesome job People sometimes say that modern praise and worship music is Biblically and doctrinally unsound, but that is not always the case, either.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I like some of their songs I think their praise teams do an awesome job People sometimes say that modern praise and worship music is Biblically and doctrinally unsound, but that is not always the case, either.

It's certainly not always the case. However it generally is.
Oh I have something funny for this.

 

[KingdomBrat]

There is a place near the Lord whereby a man can stand upon a rock of truth and reveal Christ from the Word under the empowerment of the Holy Spirit that will shake people to their core and they will know that they have had an encounter with the Living God and will never be the same as a result.

This kind of preaching comes from a life given wholly to the Word of God and prayer. That prayer and study of the Word transforms a man and changes him to 'another man' so that when they step up and begin to preach there is a weightiness and an atmosphere that comes into the room that makes everyone pay attention and it does not stop until the last word is spoken. This type of preaching gift is rare because the price required by the man of God is rarely paid. When such a man does pay the price and begins to operate in this type of anointing the hungry saints of God who are tired of the pabulum and positive self help messages will come from a hundred miles around to watch the man burn with the Glory of God and soak up the Word from Heaven for the hour. And it will probably be a megachurch.
There are that many hungry people who are just waiting to find that kind of preaching.

Look at life.
Humanity went from family working as a team for food to today's 10 minute meal thru fast foods.
Sadly, men of God coming up are not leaving their families at age of 18, living with preachers and sitting under their teachings as [students and disciples] while their own ministry grows, being able to see how God moves and how the Minister is being a true Shepherd. Today, you can be indoctrinated and licensed to marry, preach, teach in about 3 hours max online. Most knowledge gained today is by these forums and being able to search online. I toss out Scriptures here in the forums I am familiar with that some will read and be first time noticing that verse. It happens for me. The Church is not hungry because we don't know what real hunger for God is. When we see how God moved in the Word, the people were in need. God provided. We haven't been to the point of being needy for God. That is why our Nation is in the state of mind and shape it is. We will finally wake up, but it will be due to a harsh reality.

 

[KingdomBrat]

Here's the kicker here. Many [believe] there will be an "end time Revival." that will be a [Mega] setting. That will be a moment to let it all go. We should have by now, but we are about to witness something special before it goes very bad.

When the [MEN/WOMEN] of God who are fore running this Movement of Revival by God. Are we [before joining in] going to tear the leaders down to see if this is [real/fake/scam]?

 

[Scribe]

Here's the kicker here. Many [believe] there will be an "end time Revival." that will be a [Mega] setting. That will be a moment to let it all go. We should have by now, but we are about to witness something special before it goes very bad.

When the [MEN/WOMEN] of God who are fore running this Movement of Revival by God. Are we [before joining in] going to tear the leaders down to see if this is [real/fake/scam]?

It could be the purest church on the earth but if is a megachurch there will be no shortage of critics.

 

[Lanolin]

have you been to Hillsong, for a worship meeting ?

no they are in australia. I dont think they have churches here in nz. Other churches just play their songs. There is a church called LIFE church that seems similar to hillsong, but only cos its pentecostal style worship. Theres a lot of pentecostal type churches here under different names.

 

[Lanolin]

theres all different mega churches and word of faith type churches, a lot of them are focused on $$ and wordly success. I have been to a few and the sermons and preaching seem like they are always about that, with a bit of religious fervour thrown in, but mostly hyping about financial increase.

(usually for the people taking in the money).

 

[Lanolin]

worldly sorry not wordly.
although they can be 'wordy' churches in a sense that everyones chatting about how successful they areand kinda showing off. A bit like an amway meeting.