Thanks for sharing.
Some members of this forum may see nothing wrong with such behaviour.
Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?
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Thanks for sharing.
Some members of this forum may see nothing wrong with such behaviour.
Matthew 13:18Consider, then, the parable of the sower: 19When anyone hears the message of the kingdom but does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sownd along the path.
Why didn't they understand it? Maybe because the places they worship at don't instruct them?
20The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he remains for only a season. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Did someone keep this person from getting rooted in the word?
22The seed sown among the thorns is the one who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
As an example, prosperity preaching chokes off the fruitfullness of the people who hear it.
23But the seed sown on good soil is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and produces a crop—a hundredfold, sixtyfold, or thirtyfold.”
There's a double-edged sword here in this parable: Yes, the individual is responsible for prayer & self-study of the Word to increase their fruitfulness. But it's also the responsibility of church leaders & mature christians to provide the proper plowed ground for the seed to grow in. How many places in the Bible it says to minister to one another's needs? The ground is better to grow in when christians bear one another's burdens & fulfill the law of Christ.
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This pastor was fired and an investigation launched by the Hillsong leadership to get to the bottom of unethical things. That suggests a good foundation for a church. One that can fire the pastor and root out any corruption. Good job Hillsong Leadership!
I don't bear witness with the spirit of the author. I am not sure I agree with is doctrine. I would have to hear the people speak in their entirety concerning the quotes that were used. I have seen too many hatchet jobs like this to take the side of the author without further investigation. Preachers say stuff the wrong way sometimes and there are skeptics waiting to pounce and use it to accuse them of doctrine they do not actually teach.
They weren't actual sermons by Brian Houston. I would need to listen to Brian Houston's entire message in context and not a man using an sound bite and going off on it.
Hillsong churches could all be corrupt and all their pastors could be preaching the Word of Faith message for all I know. But I can't know that until I actually listen to their sermons.
My main point here today is that I am always more skeptical of faultfinders of successful churches than I am of the successful churches. I guess that is just the way I am wired.
And another, one only needs to do a simple Google search
"A heavily marketed corporate entity pretending to be a Church"
http://www.piratechristian.com/messedupchurch/tag/Hillsong+Church
"A heavily marketed corporate entity pretending to be a Church"
http://www.piratechristian.com/messedupchurch/tag/Hillsong+Church
Looks like the falling away has been going on for 2,000 years from what the early church in Acts was.
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I can find websites that criticize every popular preacher of every church. Just google "does ________ preach false doctrine" and there will be a site or posts about them. Have you ever googled John MacArthur? LOL lots of false doctrine claims on him. Though I do not agree with his interpretation on several topics I don't think he is a False Teacher. But there are websites dedicated to exposing him.
Church in Acts:
"Jesus in Lord"
Hillsong:
"God is telling you, through me, to give me your money"
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They ruined any chance of being taken seriously when they decided to falsely accuse Doctor Michael Brown who they will not be able to match in intellect and academic theological achievements in this life time. What a joke of a website. People should stay in their lanes.
I heard Carl Lentz preach only once when I attended a ministers conference in New York.
I was not impressed and did not care for the content of the message. It was much more of a personal experience and testimony about his ministry and I did not get much from it. He said some things I did not agree with and found a bit annoying. But he did not preach false doctrine.
He did not really preach any doctrine. Just the same old fluffy stuff most preachers preach. I think the gist of the message was that he wanted to reach people with the Gospel and that he did not really care about his critics. He did talk about how they were always trying to get him to say something to get gay people mad at him but he would not be manipulated by skeptics who don't really care about his answers.
He was already on record for calling it sin but that is not good enough for them and they just kept coming back with the same questions trying to get him to say something they can spin, or reword to cause an uproar. So he quit answering their questions. I can understand that.
You won't read that in the link above. Why not? It is not honest of the author to exclude that answer that you can find on a video of Carl Lentz answering that very question from 2019. Does the person who authored the website not know that Carl has said that the bible teaches that homosexuality is sin? Does he leave it out so that he can paint Carl Lentz doctrine as being soft on gay people even though he knows that Carl said he will not be constantly forced to answer such questions by people who want to accuse him of hate speech. Jesus stopped answering the Pharisees on several occasions for the same reason.
It is far more disturbing to witness false accusers with no conscience than these they think are false teachers and false churches.
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Church in NTChurch in Acts:
"Jesus in Lord"
Hillsong:
"God is telling you, through me, to give me your money"
1 Cor 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
God told us all that by putting it in the bible
That's not the only issue with Hillsong. As to the question in the title, too many Christians fail to use common sense and wisdom, as well as discernment, in knowing who is a wolf and who is a shepherd. Too many charlatans are being supported in the name of the Gospel.
We do have this kind of post-Protestantism in the Church, where the things we fought for in the 1500's and 1600's are being forgotten by the heirs. They are lapsing into the same Romish nadir, only under different banners.
The thing that was frustrating for me when I was a Hillsong CUSTOMER, is that the same people who allowed others to think for them in a "Church" setting were quite sharp and switched on in every other aspect of their life.
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I am going to leave the discussion with this final thought. This is to the general church on CC and not to anyone specifically.
I believe that God is well able to correct the errors in a church that is sincerely seeking to please Him and to surrender completely to the Jesus Christ in every area of their lives. I have great hopes and expectations for churches like Hillsong and Bethel. I believe that most of the people attending them are sincere, on fire, Spirit filled people who love Jesus only and who are the kind of people I would hang out with.
The majority of people will attend churches where the preaching is somewhat weak.
If you are looking for expository Bible College level lectures you should probably go to Bible College and stay there until you achieve a doctorates. We need more preachers who can give those kinds of lectures. Instead of complaining, be the solution.
If you are looking for a prophet with a word from heaven like an Isaiah, get shut in with God and cry out day and night until you have an Holy throne experience and He puts a word on your lips that will be a rejoicing to the hungry heart and drive the rest into gross darkness and blindness.
Both kinds of preachers require a great price to be paid.
Most people won't understand a word I just said.
I believe that God is well able to correct the errors in a church that is sincerely seeking to please Him and to surrender completely to the Jesus Christ in every area of their lives. I have great hopes and expectations for churches like Hillsong and Bethel. I believe that most of the people attending them are sincere, on fire, Spirit filled people who love Jesus only and who are the kind of people I would hang out with.
The majority of people will attend churches where the preaching is somewhat weak.
If you are looking for expository Bible College level lectures you should probably go to Bible College and stay there until you achieve a doctorates. We need more preachers who can give those kinds of lectures. Instead of complaining, be the solution.
If you are looking for a prophet with a word from heaven like an Isaiah, get shut in with God and cry out day and night until you have an Holy throne experience and He puts a word on your lips that will be a rejoicing to the hungry heart and drive the rest into gross darkness and blindness.
Both kinds of preachers require a great price to be paid.
Most people won't understand a word I just said.
I am not in any way a fan of Johnny Mac, but I agree with what you have said about
websites galore existing to criticize whomever no matter what they teach.
Ha ha I have even heard of people setting up their own little webbie to criticize and gain
followers of people who want to hate on apologists like you and me. Yeah, it happens
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I am not in any way a fan of Johnny Mac, but I agree with what you have said about
websites galore existing to criticize whomever no matter what they teach.
Ha ha I have even heard of people setting up their own little webbie to criticize and gain
followers of people who want to hate on apologists like you and me. Yeah, it happens
That would freak me out! Like having a stalker? I would never argue with anyone long enough to get them that upset with me. When it gets personal I disengage.
Hey, the very first site I was on doing apologetics was secular, and some did not
wait any longer than finding out I was Christian to start hating on me LOL
It was an interesting experience. I learned a lot
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Hey, the very first site I was on doing apologetics was secular, and some did not
wait any longer than finding out I was Christian to start hating on me LOL
It was an interesting experience. I learned a lot
Oh wow. I would not like that. I am very sensitive and cry easily.
It was definitely challenging, but I must admit, I derived pleasure from standing firm and thwarting themOh wow. I would not like that. I am very sensitive and cry easily.
Them and their evil plans Mwa haha. I do not say that lightly, either. They did everything they could to provoke me.
hillsongs music is a bit different from the preaching...while other churches sing and play their songs. i dont think they copy their sermons or preaching. eg there is no official Hillsong bible or prayer book.
Hillsong churches probably have their own spin on the gospel, just as other denoms churches do. I havent been to one or listened online so cant really judge, though I have read and know of several believers who have left those churches for various reasons and very often it has to do with financial problems.
its enough to know that something is not right though this wont be every believers experience of course.
I also believe if you do have lots of personal funds in general you dont flash it around and spend big on your for yourself if you want to stay humble. Most people will put the money toward helping others, not themselves.
My brother is an engineer and he designs yachts and some of the yachts are for very wealthy people who have MILLIONS to spend. They are just toys to them and often after a few years when they are sick of it they will sell it to buy an even bigger one. Its not like its their home its just an extra toy. Cos on other hand I know christians who sold their own home to live on a yacht cos they love sailing and they want to go round the world to spread the gospel.
Hillsong churches probably have their own spin on the gospel, just as other denoms churches do. I havent been to one or listened online so cant really judge, though I have read and know of several believers who have left those churches for various reasons and very often it has to do with financial problems.
its enough to know that something is not right though this wont be every believers experience of course.
I also believe if you do have lots of personal funds in general you dont flash it around and spend big on your for yourself if you want to stay humble. Most people will put the money toward helping others, not themselves.
My brother is an engineer and he designs yachts and some of the yachts are for very wealthy people who have MILLIONS to spend. They are just toys to them and often after a few years when they are sick of it they will sell it to buy an even bigger one. Its not like its their home its just an extra toy. Cos on other hand I know christians who sold their own home to live on a yacht cos they love sailing and they want to go round the world to spread the gospel.
Hillsong is another one of these so called "Churches" that cherry picks verses and twists them to suit their agenda, which is basically to milk people.