Calvinists are preaching a false message .
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Amen. Sadly this has been discussed with these people numerous times and they still keep asking the same questions
like @mailmandan used to say with his dead horse emoji. It’s like beating a dead horse.
like @mailmandan used to say with his dead horse emoji. It’s like beating a dead horse.
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Thank you too sis. For someone who supposedly knows the word why he did not know those passages.,,
All those that are justified, God vouchsafeth, in and for His only Son Jesus Christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption
a) by which they are taken into the number, and enjoy the liberties and privileges of the children of God,(b) have His name put upon them,(c) receive the spirit of adoption,(d) have access to the throne of grace with boldness,(e) are enabled to cry, Abba, Father,(f) are pitied,(g) protected,(h) provided for,(i) and chastened by Him as by a Father;(k) yet never cast off,(l) but sealed to the day of redemption,(m) and inherit the promises, as heirs of everlasting salvation.(o)(a) Eph. 1:5.
(b) Gal. 4:4, 5; Rom. 8:17; John 1:12.
(c) Jer. 14:9; II Cor. 6:18; Rev. 3:12.
(d) Rom. 8:15.
(e) Eph. 3:12; Rom. 5:2.
(f) Gal. 4:6.
(g) Ps. 103:13.
(h) Prov. 14:26.
(i) Matt. 6:30, 32; I Pet. 5:7.
(k) Heb. 12:6.
(l) Lam. 3:31.
(m) Eph. 4:30.
Heb. 6:12.(o) I Pet. 1:3, 4; Heb. 1:14.
You can't be a son in someones else's family unless they adopt you... So when we cease being sons of darkness God adopt us into his family...It's not rocket science. If you are saying you are not adopted then you can't be God's son.
We are being transformed into the image of Jesus now and will be conformed into the image of Jesus when we are glorified. But we are just splitting hairs here. The real problem that I can see with your theology is you say that you will not be adopted until glorified.
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Hi Rondonmon.
Theres a problem with your thinking here.
If God predestined all mankind to be saved through the shed blood of Christ to life eternal, then IT WILL happen.
adjective
-- (of an outcome or course of events) determined in advance by divine will or fate
So what you are saying can't be true. Yes I notice you say there is a catch... however does our free will override Gods Divine will. Thats exactly what you said!
The second point, Yes and Yes, It was predestined that Jesus would be the sacrificial lamb.. But thats not what is being said in Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
read the text..Paul is referring to Christians here.. the 'those God foreknew'.
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Hi John!
There are many scriptures that demonstrate God's election of those whom He savedprior the beginning of the world. Here are just a couple:
"And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain. - Revelation 13:8
"And those who dwell on the earth whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet will be." - Revelation 17:8
The two scriptures above, reveal the following truths:
1). That names were not written in the book of life
2). That names were written in the book of life
3). That both took place from the foundation of the world
This demonstrates the Sovereign election of God as the One who did the choosing for salvation before the world began. Regarding this, Ephesians and Roman's states the following:
"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves."
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory."
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."
Foreknowing, predestining and chosen, all demonstrate God's Sovereign choice in accordance with His pleasure and will.
Paul uses the destruction of Pharaoh to demonstrate this, saying that God raised him up for the specific purpose of displaying His power to all the earth. He also demonstrates this in that, before either of the twins were born and had done either good or bad, God said "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
There are many scriptures that demonstrate God's election of those whom He savedprior the beginning of the world. Here are just a couple:
"And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain. - Revelation 13:8
"And those who dwell on the earth whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet will be." - Revelation 17:8
The two scriptures above, reveal the following truths:
1). That names were not written in the book of life
2). That names were written in the book of life
3). That both took place from the foundation of the world
This demonstrates the Sovereign election of God as the One who did the choosing for salvation before the world began. Regarding this, Ephesians and Roman's states the following:
"For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves."
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory."
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."
Foreknowing, predestining and chosen, all demonstrate God's Sovereign choice in accordance with His pleasure and will.
Paul uses the destruction of Pharaoh to demonstrate this, saying that God raised him up for the specific purpose of displaying His power to all the earth. He also demonstrates this in that, before either of the twins were born and had done either good or bad, God said "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
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Well, since Paul stated that God would not that any man would perish, but most will wind up in hell, that should give you your answer. God created the Angels FOREKNOWING that a 1/3 would defect. What the Calvinists do not understand is God would be going against the very nature of God if He MANDATED we serve Him like slaves, so God tries us via the fire, and purges those who do not love Hi ways. Its that simple, God's loving heart would desire that all men desire a relationship with him, some men and women love evil more than they love God.
So, the Predestination is like God predestinating a Ram be caught in a bush so Abrahams's son could be spared. God with forethought provided the Sacrifice. God thus, if you read the passage its very very clear what Paul is saying, so God thus predestined or HAD THE FORETHOUGHT to provide us all a perfect sacrifice, it is up to us to claim that pardon, we can not come into the presence of God with SIN STAIN upon us, God is too holy, His presence would blow us to smithereens.
Look at it like this, why did Jesus say "My God, my God, Why have you forsaken (left) me? Do you get this? God COULD NOT come into the presence of all of our sins that were upon Jesus at his death, God had to leave Jesus alone on the cross, that is why Jesus uttered those words on the cross, God left the Sacrifice on the hill of Golgatha, and Jesus was all alone on the cross.
So, men who refuse this FREE PARDON, condemn themselves to life outside of God's presence. God, foreknowing man would fall, predestined a sacrifice that all men could attain eternal life through Jesus, thus he predestined us all to eternal life.
So, the Predestination is like God predestinating a Ram be caught in a bush so Abrahams's son could be spared. God with forethought provided the Sacrifice. God thus, if you read the passage its very very clear what Paul is saying, so God thus predestined or HAD THE FORETHOUGHT to provide us all a perfect sacrifice, it is up to us to claim that pardon, we can not come into the presence of God with SIN STAIN upon us, God is too holy, His presence would blow us to smithereens.
Look at it like this, why did Jesus say "My God, my God, Why have you forsaken (left) me? Do you get this? God COULD NOT come into the presence of all of our sins that were upon Jesus at his death, God had to leave Jesus alone on the cross, that is why Jesus uttered those words on the cross, God left the Sacrifice on the hill of Golgatha, and Jesus was all alone on the cross.
So, men who refuse this FREE PARDON, condemn themselves to life outside of God's presence. God, foreknowing man would fall, predestined a sacrifice that all men could attain eternal life through Jesus, thus he predestined us all to eternal life.
Hi Rondonom.
please take a look at the text of Romans 8:29ff. 'for those' in verse 29 are the same as 'those' in verse 30. The 'those' Paul is talking about are Christian's not Jesus.
I'm not even referring to free will here (what ever that means). As even those who are Arminian in their sotoriology, rightly understand Romans 8:29ff. The difference is that we just disagree on how it works out in a persons life (the calling etc).
But you miss verse 30, it says that whom he did predestinate, he also called.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (NOT SOME)
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
So who did God call? ALL MEN, thus He predestinated all men to have a way toward repentance. Nothing else makes sense, God can't lie, God DESIRES that ALL MEN repent and Jesus said If I be lifted up (from death) I will draw ALL MEN unto me. So, God did not call some men and not others, that is the Calvinists Predestination theory, which is in error. God predestined a WAY TO SALVATION via Jesus' Blood, or else Paul and Jesus lied.
What it is, is Calvin, and OTHERS misunderstand Paul's words, written in Greek, translated into Latin, and then into English. You see, what I do, is I test the spirit AND I test the scriptures, if anything makes God a liar, then it has to be delved into further, then we can use logic to lose the irrational.
FOR INSTANCE..........Daniel 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 are at odds about the end of the Beast. So what gives? God does not give us TWO ENDINGS, one is MISUNDERSTOOD or misconstrued, and thus I needed to DIG IN, to find out why ! Thats what I do with end time stuff.
Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
So, which is it, was the Beast KILLED like Dan. 7:11 says, OR was the Beast cast ALIVE into the Lake of Fire? The answer seems contradictory, but it is not at all contradictory. You see, we are ETERNAL BEINGS, thus we never die as Spirit men, we SLEEP (Paul said in 1 Cor. 15) until the Lord calls us home. After the First Resurrection, the Wicked will be raised 1000 years later and Judged, the bible says this, BUT not the False Prophet and Anti-Christ they will be cast straight into hell. The bible also says it is appointed ONCE for men to die and then the Judgment. So, the Anti-Christ/Beast and False Prophet are no doubt Judged at the Rev. 20:4 judgment seat, then cast into hell, just after they have been killed, NEITHER ONE is allowed to SLEEP in the grave for the next 1000 years like all of the other wicked via the Second Resurrection. God has a special timing for just those two, even Satan is locked in the pit for 1000 years. So, the Beast is indeed killed, just like Danel was told in Dan. 7:11, and they are cast alive or WITHOUT SLEEPING they are cast straight into hell fire. This is the way you solve seeming contradictions. You start out on a journey, then you reason your way through.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (NOT SOME)
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
So who did God call? ALL MEN, thus He predestinated all men to have a way toward repentance. Nothing else makes sense, God can't lie, God DESIRES that ALL MEN repent and Jesus said If I be lifted up (from death) I will draw ALL MEN unto me. So, God did not call some men and not others, that is the Calvinists Predestination theory, which is in error. God predestined a WAY TO SALVATION via Jesus' Blood, or else Paul and Jesus lied.
What it is, is Calvin, and OTHERS misunderstand Paul's words, written in Greek, translated into Latin, and then into English. You see, what I do, is I test the spirit AND I test the scriptures, if anything makes God a liar, then it has to be delved into further, then we can use logic to lose the irrational.
FOR INSTANCE..........Daniel 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 are at odds about the end of the Beast. So what gives? God does not give us TWO ENDINGS, one is MISUNDERSTOOD or misconstrued, and thus I needed to DIG IN, to find out why ! Thats what I do with end time stuff.
Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
So, which is it, was the Beast KILLED like Dan. 7:11 says, OR was the Beast cast ALIVE into the Lake of Fire? The answer seems contradictory, but it is not at all contradictory. You see, we are ETERNAL BEINGS, thus we never die as Spirit men, we SLEEP (Paul said in 1 Cor. 15) until the Lord calls us home. After the First Resurrection, the Wicked will be raised 1000 years later and Judged, the bible says this, BUT not the False Prophet and Anti-Christ they will be cast straight into hell. The bible also says it is appointed ONCE for men to die and then the Judgment. So, the Anti-Christ/Beast and False Prophet are no doubt Judged at the Rev. 20:4 judgment seat, then cast into hell, just after they have been killed, NEITHER ONE is allowed to SLEEP in the grave for the next 1000 years like all of the other wicked via the Second Resurrection. God has a special timing for just those two, even Satan is locked in the pit for 1000 years. So, the Beast is indeed killed, just like Danel was told in Dan. 7:11, and they are cast alive or WITHOUT SLEEPING they are cast straight into hell fire. This is the way you solve seeming contradictions. You start out on a journey, then you reason your way through.