Calvinists are preaching a false message .

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Iconoclast said:
Everyone limits the atonement. It is just a question of if we follow the biblical limits.
I do not think you can defend your ideas from the bible.
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Thats false. Bible believers do not limit the atonement. This is the false dilemma calvinism created. Glorification is limited not the atonement.
 
phil36 said:
New International Version
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

King James Bible
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

English Standard Version
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.


Hi throughfaith I don't know which part the ESV says something different?
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Once again he is trying to read into your thinking
 
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Ahwatukee said:
Regardless of the word 'From,' it puts their names as being written and not written at that time, which would be at least before the world even began. In other words, those who names were written in the book of life was done prior to or at the beginning of the foundation of the world. In any case, the writing of their names was predetermined.
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Yep, it was not written only after a person was born again
 
Ahwatukee said:
True! But the point that Paul is making is that, before either of them were born and had done nothing either good or bad, God's election was for Jacob and not Esau. This demonstrates God's Sovereign election. He continues on with the same point when he says that God raised up Pharaoh for the specific purpose of displaying His power to the nations. How many times did God harden Pharaoh's heart? Then Paul's point is:

"So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort (to find favor with God), but on God’s mercy. He continues with "Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden."

Paul then writes about those who would reject the idea or say that it is unfair in regards to salvation being by God's choosing:

"One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?

Those chosen for salvation is from God, not man's doing. And those whom He chose to save throughout all of history, their names were written in the book of life before any of this began.
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Ah romans 9, Paul proving the nation of Isreal was chosen by his decree, before the twins were born. And not because of all the reasons the jews were claiming God chose them.
 
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oyster67 said:
God can sovereignly elect to give man a choice, and this is exactly what He chose to do.
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Amen, as a sovereign God he is allowed to do this, just like as all powerful God he was allowed to give up his place and become a pan air breathing Baby,

all done out of love,

God is love, and he sacrifices himself to prove that love
 
throughfaith said:
However . Famously Calvinism is not known for taking verses in context. Its system is known for ' proof texting ' . Thats my point . The system comes first . Then with the bias the verses are then made to fit . I've rarely seen a calvintst use context as a argument. Just proof texts .
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Your hatred and lack of knowledge continues

you should be ashamed
 
Iconoclast said:
Those Calvinists say accepting Jesus is not found in the bible.Which verses do you have that use that exact term accepting Jesus???
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While you may not find those exact words, you find many that hint at this

he calls

he knocks at the door

whoever calls on the name of the lord. With the heart,

etc etc
 
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