Do we have to love our enemies in order to be saved?

[Marcelo]

Three decades ago a co-worker of mine was rendered paraplegic by a thief. A group of believers and myself went to her home to comfort her.

We talked about the brevity of life on earth and everlasting life in heaven, etc., but not long after that, one of our fellow believers bluntly asked the physically disabled girl: "Have you already forgiven the guy who did this to you?"

The girl got embarrassed and tried to change the subject, but the guy kept insisting that she should not only forgive, but also love the thief, and so he ruined the gathering.

The unpleasant event led me and some other guys to examine the Scripture to see if LOVING OUR ENEMIES is a requirement for salvation. We came to the conclusion that we must always do our best to love our enemies, but if we don't attain such perfection we don't lose salvation.

A pastor back then told us: "Jesus preached to the Jews and Paul preached to us (the Gentiles). To be saved we must follow the teachings of Paul and of other apostles (which are actually from Jesus) and don't have to obey ALL teachings that Jesus gave to the Jews because we are now under a new covenant.

What is your opinion about this?

 

[ellie461]

I think we are only required to forgive them, in order to be forgiven./the Lords prayer/

 

[ellie461]

She should only forgive, not reconcile. That is the minimum. If one day she comes to a new level of awareness, she could consider loving them, but it has to be her choice. It's not good to pressure somebody on that.

 

[phil36]

I know some people believe the sermon on the mount is not for Christians here and now. This is very sad indeed.

To answer your question we need to start here I think. We are have taken from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of God Already..Christ inaugurated the Kingdom..

- Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” (Luke 17:20-21).

- Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son. (Colossians 1:12-13).

So the sermon on the mount is Kingdom living for the saints now. (past,present and future).

Paul echoes Jesus (since all scripture is god's word to his people (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Romans 12.14-21
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. 16 Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly; do not claim to be wiser than you are. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. 18 If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 No, “if your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on their heads.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

we have to remember we are to imitate Jesus -

-- Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. (1 Cor 11:1)
-- Whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. (1 John 2:6)

So when Jesus died for us his enemies...he showed love to us --

--For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Romans 5:10


We are to imitate Jesus...love our enemies. It doesn't mean we have to be their best friends but we are to love them none the less for Jesus loved His enemies us!

So when Jesus Himself says we are to love our enemies..we are to do so. Its actually quite a blessing (and it may difficult and hard to do).

I would say next time your pastor says something like don't listen to Jesus teaching his children Kingdom living... Just tell him Paul and John disagree with him.

 

[Guojing]

Three decades ago a co-worker of mine was rendered paraplegic by a thief. A group of believers and myself went to her home to comfort her.

We talked about the brevity of life on earth and everlasting life in heaven, etc., but not long after that, one of our fellow believers bluntly asked the physically disabled girl: "Have you already forgiven the guy who did this to you?"

The girl got embarrassed and tried to change the subject, but the guy kept insisting that she should not only forgive, but also love the thief, and so he ruined the gathering.

The unpleasant event led me and some other guys to examine the Scripture to see if LOVING OUR ENEMIES is a requirement for salvation. We came to the conclusion that we must always do our best to love our enemies, but if we don't attain such perfection we don't lose salvation.

A pastor back then told us: "Jesus preached to the Jews and Paul preached to us (the Gentiles). To be saved we must follow the teachings of Paul and of other apostles (which are actually from Jesus) and don't have to obey ALL teachings that Jesus gave to the Jews because we are now under a new covenant.

What is your opinion about this?

Its not a salvation issue. We forgive others not for their benefit, but for ours.

But it is up to each of us to realize that.

 

[ewq1938]

Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


These enemies are the ones often within the body of Christ and other social circles that tend to argue and disagree with each other. These are not the enemies of God that actively work to block the gospel or the types of evil people that murder and rape people. So, there are different kinds of enemies we face. Some we should love, some we should not.

Jesus spoke of personal or religious enemies, people who caused you trouble ignorantly. Jesus isn't talking about dangerous enemies that mean to harm or kill you. Jesus will an army full of his enemies at Armageddon and Jesus isn't a hypocrite

In modern language I believe the verse would be, "But I say unto you, Love your Frenemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; "

 

[ellie461]

I know some people believe the sermon on the mount is not for Christians here and now. This is very sad indeed.

To answer your question we need to start here I think. We are have taken from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of God Already..Christ inaugurated the Kingdom..

- Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” (Luke 17:20-21).

- Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son. (Colossians 1:12-13).

So the sermon on the mount is Kingdom living for the saints now. (past,present and future).

Paul echoes Jesus (since all scripture is god's word to his people (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Romans 12.14-21
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. 16 Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly; do not claim to be wiser than you are. 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. 18 If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 No, “if your enemies are hungry, feed them; if they are thirsty, give them something to drink; for by doing this you will heap burning coals on their heads.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

we have to remember we are to imitate Jesus -

-- Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. (1 Cor 11:1)
-- Whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. (1 John 2:6)

So when Jesus died for us his enemies...he showed love to us --

--For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Romans 5:10


We are to imitate Jesus...love our enemies. It doesn't mean we have to be their best friends but we are to love them none the less for Jesus loved His enemies us!

So when Jesus Himself says we are to love our enemies..we are to do so. Its actually quite a blessing (and it may difficult and hard to do).

I would say next time your pastor says something like don't listen to Jesus teaching his children Kingdom living... Just tell him Paul and John disagree with him.

You never lived or depend on somebody with narcissistic personalities, to see where your love for them really goes? Could you love Hitler?

 

[ellie461]

Its not a salvation issue. We forgive others not for their benefit, but for ours.

But it is up to each of us to realize that.[/QUOTE
]Jesus also said repent, in order to be saved. Not forgiving somebody, doesn't sound like repentance!

 

[ellie461]

Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


These enemies are the ones often within the body of Christ and other social circles that tend to argue and disagree with each other. These are not the enemies of God that actively work to block the gospel or the types of evil people that murder and rape people. So, there are different kinds of enemies we face. Some we should love, some we should not.

Jesus spoke of personal or religious enemies, people who caused you trouble ignorantly. Jesus isn't talking about dangerous enemies that mean to harm or kill you. Jesus will an army full of his enemies at Armageddon and Jesus isn't a hypocrite

In modern language I believe the verse would be, "But I say unto you, Love your Frenemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; "

I think our enemies are outside the Christian church! In the church we are supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ. If a Christian is false one ,he can become automatically our enemy.

 

[Adstar]

Three decades ago a co-worker of mine was rendered paraplegic by a thief. A group of believers and myself went to her home to comfort her.

We talked about the brevity of life on earth and everlasting life in heaven, etc., but not long after that, one of our fellow believers bluntly asked the physically disabled girl: "Have you already forgiven the guy who did this to you?"

The girl got embarrassed and tried to change the subject, but the guy kept insisting that she should not only forgive, but also love the thief, and so he ruined the gathering.

The unpleasant event led me and some other guys to examine the Scripture to see if LOVING OUR ENEMIES is a requirement for salvation. We came to the conclusion that we must always do our best to love our enemies, but if we don't attain such perfection we don't lose salvation.

A pastor back then told us: "Jesus preached to the Jews and Paul preached to us (the Gentiles). To be saved we must follow the teachings of Paul and of other apostles (which are actually from Jesus) and don't have to obey ALL teachings that Jesus gave to the Jews because we are now under a new covenant.

What is your opinion about this?

We must believe Jesus. That His teachings are good and true.. If we do not believe Jesus then we are not believing in the Actual Jesus that saves,, We are believing in what Paul described as another jesus..

2 Corinthians 11: KJV
3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. {4} For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Having said all that, failing from time to time to live up to the standards of the LORD Jesus is just part of being a faulty human being and that's where the believing and trusting in the Atonement of Jesus comes in to obtain for us forgiveness for all the times we have failed to love our enemies or failed at doing all the other things preached by Jesus..

 

[Lafftur]

God knows a lot more than we do.....His instructions to us are life-giving if we do them.

He said in this life we will have trouble and tribulations, bad things are going to happen to us but, we can overcome every bad thing and still enjoy our life, if we do what Jesus said to do......

Matthew 5:44-48 New King James Version (NKJV)
Love Your Enemies
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

 

[phil36]

You never lived or depend on somebody with narcissistic personalities, to see where your love for them really goes? Could you love Hitler?

You don't need to love a persons actions or sins. Did Jesus love your sins?

I fully understand that it is hard to love someone who has hurt us or caused pain and its really sad that it happens. But the best cure is to take to God ask Him to walk you through a bad situation.

 

[ewq1938]

I think our enemies are outside the Christian church! In the church we are supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ.

Supposed to be that way but I have seen utter hatred from one Christian toward another. Remember the war between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland and England in the 90's?

 

[ellie461]

You don't need to love a persons actions or sins. Did Jesus love your sins?

I fully understand that it is hard to love someone who has hurt us or caused pain and its really sad that it happens. But the best cure is to take to God ask Him to walk you through a bad situation.

I am trying to forgive, this very difficult, especially because these people took my health and I have a daughter to look after. They never felt sorry and think it is my fault that I got ill. While was busy loving them they took everything out of me, even my legal rights .I was pressured by an abusive husband to sign documents for a loan, which I wasn't agree with. He tortured me every day until I 've signed them, for the sake of my own sanity. Now even many years after the divorce the loan is still on my name, and I haven't got even the documents for that. That is one little example what some people can do.

 

[phil36]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I don't have any easy answers to help solve your problems.
The only thing I can say is that God is bigger than any of our problems. That's easy to say I understand that but it is true. pray to God about the situation you are in. Stay close to him. For he is carrying you (it not feel like it now).

Prayer is essential at anytime but especially when we go through life's tribulations. Take it as a time to put your full trust in the Lord, commune with him and see the peace he will bring.


"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace." - Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.


And here is a comforting prayer from the puritans -

O LORD,
Whose power is infinite and wisdom infallible,
Order things that they may neither hinder,
nor discourage me,
nor prove obstacles to the progress of thy cause;
Stand between me and all strife, that no evil befall,
no sin corrupt my gifts, zeal, attainments;
May I follow duty and not any foolish device
of my own;
Permit me not to labour at work which thou wilt
not bless,
that I may serve thee without disgrace or debt;
Let me dwell in thy most secret place under thy
shadow,
where is safe impenetrable protection from
the arrow that flieth by day,
the pestilence that walketh in darkness,
the strife of tongues,
the malice of ill-will,
the hurt of unkind talk,
the snares of company,
the perils of youth,
the temptations of middle life,
the mournings of old age,
the fear of death.
I am entirely dependent upon thee for support,
counsel, consolation.
Uphold me by thy free Spirit,
and may I not think it enough to be preserved
from falling,
but may I always go forward, always abounding
in the work thou givest me to do.
Strengthen me by thy Spirit in my inner self
for every purpose of my Christian life.


All my jewels I give to the shadow of the safety
that is in thee —
my name anew in Christ,
my body, soul, talents, character,
my success, wife, children, friends, work,
my present, my future, my end.
Take them, they are thine, and I am thine,
now and for ever.




Prayer and walking in close communion with Jesus will see you through sister. Prayers and blessings to you at this time.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus also said repent, in order to be saved. Not forgiving somebody, doesn't sound like repentance!

Our salvation doctrine can be found in 1 Cor 15:1-4, and 2 Cor 5:17-21

 

[ellie461]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I don't have any easy answers to help solve your problems.
The only thing I can say is that God is bigger than any of our problems. That's easy to say I understand that but it is true. pray to God about the situation you are in. Stay close to him. For he is carrying you (it not feel like it now).

Prayer is essential at anytime but especially when we go through life's tribulations. Take it as a time to put your full trust in the Lord, commune with him and see the peace he will bring.


"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace." - Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever.


And here is a comforting prayer from the puritans -

O LORD,
Whose power is infinite and wisdom infallible,
Order things that they may neither hinder,
nor discourage me,
nor prove obstacles to the progress of thy cause;
Stand between me and all strife, that no evil befall,
no sin corrupt my gifts, zeal, attainments;
May I follow duty and not any foolish device
of my own;
Permit me not to labour at work which thou wilt
not bless,
that I may serve thee without disgrace or debt;
Let me dwell in thy most secret place under thy
shadow,
where is safe impenetrable protection from
the arrow that flieth by day,
the pestilence that walketh in darkness,
the strife of tongues,
the malice of ill-will,
the hurt of unkind talk,
the snares of company,
the perils of youth,
the temptations of middle life,
the mournings of old age,
the fear of death.
I am entirely dependent upon thee for support,
counsel, consolation.
Uphold me by thy free Spirit,
and may I not think it enough to be preserved
from falling,
but may I always go forward, always abounding
in the work thou givest me to do.
Strengthen me by thy Spirit in my inner self
for every purpose of my Christian life.


All my jewels I give to the shadow of the safety
that is in thee —
my name anew in Christ,
my body, soul, talents, character,
my success, wife, children, friends, work,
my present, my future, my end.
Take them, they are thine, and I am thine,
now and for ever.




Prayer and walking in close communion with Jesus will see you through sister. Prayers and blessings to you at this time.

Such a beautiful prayer,I never heard it before!

 

[ellie461]

Supposed to be that way but I have seen utter hatred from one Christian toward another. Remember the war between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland and England in the 90's?

It can happen. I guess...Many Christians don't believe Catholics are true believers.....

 

[throughfaith]

Jesus died for all sins . I'm amazed that people do not check verses said before and after this event.

 

[Blik]

Scripture is so very clear and precise about salvation. We are to recognize we are sinful. We are to repent of our sins. Jesus will forgive anything, but we need to also be a forgiver, if we want forgiveness.

It is never necessary to be sin free to ask for forgiveness, the Lord knows that is impossible for us. We only need to WANT to be sin free, that wanting to be sin free is called repentance in scripture.