You don't think what our Lord endured to save us was the worst suffering imaginable?
Was the crucifixion that Jesus endured the worst possible suffering a human could experience?
- Thread starter VickyK
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T
TheIndianGirl
Guest
I think the longer the time of suffering, the worse the suffering. I'm glad Jesus' physical suffering only lasted less than a day on the Cross though.
I know that in the garden Jesus was praying knowing He was about to go to the cross and die......He was sweating blood in the garden......He knew what He was about to endure......I'm not so sure any of us truly know exactly what all Jesus endured for us...... I would definitely NOT be so quick to think what He suffered was not that bad.....just saying.....
Luke 22:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Bloody sweating is called hematohidrosis; true hematohidrosis occur in bleeding disorders. [1] It may occur in individuals suffering from extreme levels of stress. Around the sweat glands, there are multiple blood vessels in a net-like form, which constrict under the pressure of great stress.
Luke 22:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Bloody sweating is called hematohidrosis; true hematohidrosis occur in bleeding disorders. [1] It may occur in individuals suffering from extreme levels of stress. Around the sweat glands, there are multiple blood vessels in a net-like form, which constrict under the pressure of great stress.
Who's suggesting that being tortured and forced to carry a heavy weight up a hill to then be suspended upon until your bones break and your lungs collapse is 'not that bad'?I know that in the garden Jesus was praying knowing He was about to go to the cross and die......He was sweating blood in the garden......He knew what He was about to endure......I'm not so sure any of us truly know exactly what all Jesus endured for us...... I would definitely NOT be so quick to think what He suffered was not that bad.....just saying.....
Luke 22:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
Bloody sweating is called hematohidrosis; true hematohidrosis occur in bleeding disorders. [1] It may occur in individuals suffering from extreme levels of stress. Around the sweat glands, there are multiple blood vessels in a net-like form, which constrict under the pressure of great stress.
On a separate note I never understood Jesus' being so fearful.
And an eternity in hell. The suffering Jesus endured wasn't limited to the physical realm.
Vicky, it sounds like you have adopted Christianity as religion but you may have not yet met The Lord in person.
Belief is in the heart, it can't be gained by head-knowledge alone.
It's like the difference between learning about someone from books, newspapers & reputation and meet them yourself.
Have you ever seen someone from across a room & heard what everyone else has said about them but never actually met them in person, spoke to them & spent any time with them?
I'm not trying to say you are lacking any capacity to walk with The Lord but others can never teach you what he can show you himself.
Please seek him not for what others say he is but who he knows himself to be.
You will get there if your heart is sincere. Have you prayed privately and asked The Holy Spirit to reveal himself to you?
The worst kind of suffering is that which a loving parent endures at the hands of children who hate and want him dead. Please phil, start looking at the gospel this way.
God appointed his Son to endure the sins being committed against him and in spite of this, continue loving those who hated him,
love is long-suffering 1Cor.13:4
consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself Heb.12:3
God did not pour out his wrath on his Son. Sinners poured their wrath out on Gods Son,
They hated me without a cause Jn.15:25
Jesus turned his wrath away from people who sinned against him.
Because Christ turned the other cheek, instead of destroying the ungodly who sinned against him.
Justified by his blood, that is his life.
Read the next verse.
The point is, anyone who has not repented of sinning against God will face the wrath of God,
What does Peter mean by "also"? "Also suffered"? Read the verse before it.
I believe the fact that Jesus was separated from His Father while on the cross , under His Fathers wrath , for taking on all the sin of the world was the worst moment for our Lord , for He had not experienced that separation before...
Amazing grace , how sweet the sound , that saved a wretch like me Amen...
...xox...
Amazing grace , how sweet the sound , that saved a wretch like me Amen...
...xox...
Psalm 22 (NIV)
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.[b]
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.[c]
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth[d] is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[e] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
19 But you, Lord, do not be far from me.
You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my people;
in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you[f] I will fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
those who seek the Lord will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the Lord,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the Lord
and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness,
declaring to a people yet unborn:
He has done it!
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.[b]
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.[c]
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth[d] is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[e] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.
19 But you, Lord, do not be far from me.
You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my people;
in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you[f] I will fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
those who seek the Lord will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the Lord,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the Lord
and he rules over the nations.
29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness,
declaring to a people yet unborn:
He has done it!
I do not think God forgot His Son , I think Jesus felt the separation from His Father when the wrath of God was poured on Him for our sin...
God never pours his wrath out on the obedient. Only on the disobedient.
Our dear Savior quoted David who felt forsaken in response to the religious leaders who were mocking him.
In this Psalm, David reasons that God did not forsake his fathers who trusted in the Lord. Then, David speaks of the sufferings of Christ and says,
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.vs.24
The whole Psalm teaches that God was not forsaking his Son, contrary to the mocking of those who knew this Psalm, who taught this Psalm....and should have known better.
There is no need to be so touchy about the truth.
He became the cursed thing for our sake. The lamb caught in the thicket. The snake lifted up.
The prophecy isn't about God forsaking his son. No one made that claim.
But Jesus did experience abandonment and he cried out in distress.
The Psalm does detail how the man who became the sacrifice experienced his separation from God. He pointed us to that psalm from the cross. None of us could understand fully the torment he endured in his spirit.
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Cor 5:21
Hi journey . If you read it in context it is the execution part I was referring to not. As you can tell, when I say ''That is not the point''! However you have totally lost me here when yo said this -
"God did not pour out his wrath on his Son. Sinners poured their wrath out on Gods Son,"
It is God's wrath not ours or sinners wrath.
Isaiah 53:4-6
Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Romans 3:25
Whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Isaiah 53:10
Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for guilt, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
Even the famous passage we all says it was all God's doing-----
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Oh @VickyK - Who's suggesting that Jesus was "fearful"???
He was under a tremendous amount of stress.....it was HEAVY.....He was breaking under the stress...NOT fearful. The angels came and ministered to Him and strengthened Him in the garden. He stayed the course, His LOVE was perfect because FEAR HAD NO PLACE IN HIM. Perfect love casts out fear.
Jesus asked His Father if the cup of suffering could pass from Him and if there was another way but, there wasn't so, because of love Jesus took the cup and drank it, saying, "not My Will but, Your Will Father be done."
When you describe the sufferings on the cross of Jesus, you only describe the physical pain and suffering.....He would be slaughtered like a lamb....as The Lamb of God...all His blood poured out, His body unrecognizable....
...and mentally mocked, spit on, Peter denying Him 3 times, the Jews against Him, the Gentiles against Him, the government against Him, the whole world against Him....Satan unleashed on Him, even God the Father placed His Hand on Him to transfer all the sin of the world upon Him (Jesus Christ) and then turned away from Him...
Jesus descended into the depths of Hell, to the very lowest part and endured even more sufferings unimaginable to us, experiencing all the sin of the whole world....yet, in the prison of Hell He preached the gospel of salvation to the spirits that were there in prison...
He took the keys of Death and Hell and unlocked the prison doors, setting the captives free, rising from the dead on the third day, ascended into Heaven into the Holy of Holies in Heaven pouring out His blood making atonement for the whole world....defeating Satan victoriously......He was able to raise others from the dead on the same day in like manner as Him (Jesus Christ) and were seen.....
NO HUMAN has ever risen from the dead with the Keys of Death and Hell.....NO HUMAN has EVER suffered what Jesus Christ has suffered to save the whole world.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY SAVIOR, LORD, KING and Lover of our souls! Amen.
Oh @VickyK - Who's suggesting that Jesus was "fearful"???
He was under a tremendous amount of stress.....it was HEAVY.....He was breaking under the stress...NOT fearful. The angels came and ministered to Him and strengthened Him in the garden. He stayed the course, His LOVE was perfect because FEAR HAD NO PLACE IN HIM. Perfect love casts out fear.
Jesus asked His Father if the cup of suffering could pass from Him and if there was another way but, there wasn't so, because of love Jesus took the cup and drank it, saying, "not My Will but, Your Will Father be done."
When you describe the sufferings on the cross of Jesus, you only describe the physical pain and suffering.....He would be slaughtered like a lamb....as The Lamb of God...all His blood poured out, His body unrecognizable....
...and mentally mocked, spit on, Peter denying Him 3 times, the Jews against Him, the Gentiles against Him, the government against Him, the whole world against Him....Satan unleashed on Him, even God the Father placed His Hand on Him to transfer all the sin of the world upon Him (Jesus Christ) and then turned away from Him...
Jesus descended into the depths of Hell, to the very lowest part and endured even more sufferings unimaginable to us, experiencing all the sin of the whole world....yet, in the prison of Hell He preached the gospel of salvation to the spirits that were there in prison...
He took the keys of Death and Hell and unlocked the prison doors, setting the captives free, rising from the dead on the third day, ascended into Heaven into the Holy of Holies in Heaven pouring out His blood making atonement for the whole world....defeating Satan victoriously......He was able to raise others from the dead on the same day in like manner as Him (Jesus Christ) and were seen.....
NO HUMAN has ever risen from the dead with the Keys of Death and Hell.....NO HUMAN has EVER suffered what Jesus Christ has suffered to save the whole world.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY SAVIOR, LORD, KING and Lover of our souls! Amen.
Amen!
His resolve & endurance was incredible.
Isaiah 50 (NIV)
6 I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.
7 Because the Sovereign Lord helps me,
I will not be disgraced.
Therefore have I set my face like flint,
and I know I will not be put to shame.
6 I offered my back to those who beat me,
my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard;
I did not hide my face
from mocking and spitting.
7 Because the Sovereign Lord helps me,
I will not be disgraced.
Therefore have I set my face like flint,
and I know I will not be put to shame.