can people in hell repent and turn to God

[UCA4J]

won't we be free? how free?
that's the question in the OP, tho applied to the other side of the great chasm.

i am thinking it's not about lack of freedom but about nature. that sure - we would be technically free to sin as Satan did; sin was found in Satan while he was in heaven. but we are new creations, and our bodies will be redeemed - that's fundamentally different than we are now, because now our flesh and our spirit still war against each other. then, we will be transformed and our flesh will not have desires contrary to our spirit anymore.

so this brings up an even harder question -- how is it that Satan sinned, in the first place? or to put it another way, why not Michael, why not Gabriel? was something different? scripture doesn't exactly give us this information. there are probably clues in the Bible about this, but i don't know them.

because Satan was in charge of the worship, of God.
But then wanted it for himself

 

[Magenta]

this speaks of ability, not certainty, and a destroyed soul isn't necessarily an annihilated soul.
for example He gives them over to a depraved mind -- but a destroyed mind isn't absence of mind.

so i'm not sure

Why would Jesus give a false or misleading admonition/warning?

 

[posthuman]

because, people who are saved, don't have to leave, and see what hell is like.
why would they?

why would Satan do what Satan did?

how will we be different than him?

these are the questions we have to answer to get to the bottom of the OP -- which, again, @taylorswiftfan is an excellent question IMO. thank you ♥

 

[kaylagrl]

won't we be free? how free?
that's the question in the OP, tho applied to the other side of the great chasm.

i am thinking it's not about lack of freedom but about nature. that sure - we would be technically free to sin as Satan did; sin was found in Satan while he was in heaven. but we are new creations, and our bodies will be redeemed - that's fundamentally different than we are now, because now our flesh and our spirit still war against each other. then, we will be transformed and our flesh will not have desires contrary to our spirit anymore.

so this brings up an even harder question -- how is it that Satan sinned, in the first place? or to put it another way, why not Michael, why not Gabriel? was something different? scripture doesn't exactly give us this information. there are probably clues in the Bible about this, but i don't know them.

Right, interesting question to ponder. Still looking up info on it. Bit of a head scratcher.

 

[posthuman]

Why would Jesus give a false or misleading admonition/warning?

i understand; i agree He wouldn't say anything false - but i think it wouldn't necessarily be misleading. it's not uncommon for Him to say things with meanings that aren't immediately apparent, to speak in human terms about things that us humans don't really have direct analogies for or experience with. remember He spoke of Lazarus as "asleep" and then finally told the disciples plainly he was dead, because they did not comprehend Him. "dead" wasn't His first choice to speak of Lazarus's state; i take that to mean that His definition of "death" isn't our regular human definition of death. He told Mary when He got there that the one who believes in Him will never die, and even tho they die, they will live. it's superficially a contradictory statement, that we will never die, but we will, but we will live, but that's only because the human vocabulary in our muddled language isn't an exact representation of the concept He's communicating. He's saying spiritual things with natural words, post-Babel. if that makes sense?

so, i am thinking, notice how He says fear the One who is able to destroy -- He doesn't say fear the One who is able to eternally punish. am i supposed to take that as though eternal punishment is impossible? i mean i've got Matthew 25:46, "they will go away into eternal punishment" -- so is what He says in Matthew 10:28 - fear the One who has the ability to destroy the soul - implying that annihilation is worse than eternal punishment? and i know there are other passages that describe the fate of the damned as "destroyed" too. so what i'm mulling over is how they coincide; whether they are the same thing, whether what God means by destroy and punish are the things that we normally think of them as meaning.

is taking away existence more merciful than granting eternal existence in punishment? polling people on death row would probably give us people with both views. it'd be interesting

 

[posthuman]

because Satan was in charge of the worship, of God.
But then wanted it for himself

why didn't Gabriel? or any other angel? the 4 living creatures?
the Bible says Satan was perfect, "until iniquity was found" in him. Ezekiel 28:15

how'd that happen? it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing.
the Bible is not simple

 

[Magenta]

i understand; i agree He wouldn't say anything false - but i think it wouldn't necessarily be misleading. it's not uncommon for Him to say things with meanings that aren't immediately apparent, to speak in human terms about things that us humans don't really have direct analogies for or experience with. remember He spoke of Lazarus as "asleep" and then finally told the disciples plainly he was dead, because they did not comprehend Him. "dead" wasn't His first choice to speak of Lazarus's state; i take that to mean that His definition of "death" isn't our regular human definition of death. He told Mary when He got there that the one who believes in Him will never die, and even tho they die, they will live. it's superficially a contradictory statement, that we will never die, but we will, but we will live, but that's only because the human vocabulary in our muddled language isn't an exact representation of the concept He's communicating. He's saying spiritual things with natural words, post-Babel. if that makes sense?

so, i am thinking, notice how He says fear the One who is able to destroy -- He doesn't say fear the One who is able to eternally punish. am i supposed to take that as though eternal punishment is impossible? i mean i've got Matthew 25:46, "they will go away into eternal punishment" -- so is what He says in Matthew 10:28 - fear the One who has the ability to destroy the soul - implying that annihilation is worse than eternal punishment? and i know there are other passages that describe the fate of the damned as "destroyed" too. so what i'm mulling over is how they coincide; whether they are the same thing, whether what God means by destroy and punish are the things that we normally think of them as meaning.

is taking away existence more merciful than granting eternal existence in punishment? polling people on death row would probably give us people with both views. it'd be interesting

I find it interesting, also, that people reject death, as in ceasing to be, as eternal punishment, when the second death is ever after.

And interesting, too, how many Christians don't accept the first death as a sleep, when
it is likened to such often, but no, they will insist, the dead are awake and conscious.

 

[posthuman]

I find it interesting, also, that people reject death, as in ceasing to be, as eternal punishment, when the second death is ever after.

i agree. i don't think it's an easy question.

here's another one --
-- when a horse's carcass is completely reduced to dust, if you smack the dirt, does that still count as 'beating a dead horse' ?

hmm

 

[soberxp]

Bible says Satan The serpent is father of lie and murder.
He or she poisoned Adam and Eve by tree of knowledge of good and evil.
The motive of killing and lying is unknown.
Maybe Satan was curious what was The power of creator .Curiosity Kills the cat.So God left Satan around to satisfy his curiosity.and trying to teaching Satan How bad was his curiosity.So Satan often walks around on the ground,because of his curiosity.
------------------------------Sherlock Holmes

 

[UCA4J]

why would Satan do what Satan did?

how will we be different than him?

these are the questions we have to answer to get to the bottom of the OP -- which, again, @taylorswiftfan is an excellent question IMO. thank you ♥

are you actually asking me ?

 

[Magenta]

God allows things for the ultimate good.

“Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail.
And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.” Do you think this applies to us, also? I do

Romans 8:28

 

[posthuman]

are you actually asking me ?

well i mean yeah, if you have answers?

 

[soberxp]

why would Satan do what Satan did?

how will we be different than him?

these are the questions we have to answer to get to the bottom of the OP -- which, again, @taylorswiftfan is an excellent question IMO. thank you ♥

cuz god command Satan to be enemy of us.
Jesus command us love your enemy.

 

[posthuman]

cuz god command Satan to be enemy of us.

wouldn't that make God the author of sin?

but if Christ commands us to love our enemies, stands to reason that God loves His enemies, right?
so He is showing Satan love.

how??

wow this thread is full of good, hard questions

 

[49]

Greetings, Taylorswiftfan!

The spirits of Abraham, the rich man and Lazarus in Hades, conscious and aware:

==========================================================

Now there was a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in joyous splendor. And a beggar named Lazarus lay at his gate, covered with sores and longing to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. And the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side.

So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.’

But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’

‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’

But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’

‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’

Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

===============================================================================

Today is the day of salvation!

Once a person dies in their sins, their record is sealed. And like the rich man, their spirit will depart and go down into Hades in torment in flame, only to be resurrected at the end of the millennial kingdom to stand before God at the great white throne judgement where they will be held accountable for all that they did and then thrown into the lake of fire.

Notice in the event of the rich man and Lazarus that the Rich man had memory of his brothers and desired to keep them from coming to the same place of torment that he was in. Abraham told him that they could read God's word (Moses and the prophets) to escape that same fate and it is the same for people today. They have the word of God and Christians telling them of the wrath that is coming and what the eternal consequences of rejecting Christ are. Even during the time of God's wrath many will still not repent.

Even during the time of God's wrath many will still not repent.

Insane!!!

 

[Magenta]

wouldn't that make God the author of sin?

but if Christ commands us to love our enemies, stands to reason that God loves His enemies, right?
so He is showing Satan love.

how??

wow this thread is full of good, hard questions

Destroying evil is good

 

[soberxp]

wouldn't that make God the author of sin?

but if Christ commands us to love our enemies, stands to reason that God loves His enemies, right?
so He is showing Satan love.

how??

wow this thread is full of good, hard questions

God command Satan to do this after Eve eaten tree of knowledge of good and evil.

What if we made a big mistake when we didn't know what we did ?

 

[UCA4J]

well i mean yeah, if you have answers?

Satan became filled with pride.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Even during the time of God's wrath many will still not repent.

Insane!!!

Yes, it is insane! Below is what the attitude of the people will be after the seals, trumpets and the last of the bowl judgments:

=======================================================================

"Now the rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands. They did not stop worshiping demons and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood (man-made products), which cannot see or hear or walk. Furthermore, they did not repent of their murder, sorcery, sexual immorality, and theft."

"Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire. And the people were scorched by intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had authority over these plagues; yet they did not repent and give Him glory.

"And the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and men began to gnaw their tongues in anguish and curse the God of heaven for their pains and sores; yet they did not repent of their deeds."

"Then every island fled, and no mountain could be found. And great hailstones weighing almost a hundred pounds each rained down on them from above. And men cursed God for the plague of hail, because it was so horrendous."

========================================================================

Even with God pouring out His wrath upon them, the still will not repent.

 

[soberxp]

Satan became filled with pride.

Satan was not pride.
God command Satan became enemy of us,
what if someone of us became evil, How about Satan to be enemy of evil man?that is must be light of angle as The bible tell us,

think about it.