That's great. I don't have a problem with Jesus either. I wasn't talking about Jesus though. I am asking if there is evidence for purgatory.
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That's great. I don't have a problem with Jesus either. I wasn't talking about Jesus though. I am asking if there is evidence for purgatory.
Greetings, Taylorswiftfan!
The spirits of Abraham, the rich man and Lazarus in Hades, conscious and aware:
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Now there was a rich man dressed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in joyous splendor. And a beggar named Lazarus lay at his gate, covered with sores and longing to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
One day the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. And the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side.
So he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. For I am in agony in this fire.’
But Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’
‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’
But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’
‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’
Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”
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Today is the day of salvation!
Once a person dies in their sins, their record is sealed. And like the rich man, their spirit will depart and go down into Hades in torment in flame, only to be resurrected at the end of the millennial kingdom to stand before God at the great white throne judgement where they will be held accountable for all that they did and then thrown into the lake of fire.
Notice in the event of the rich man and Lazarus that the Rich man had memory of his brothers and desired to keep them from coming to the same place of torment that he was in. Abraham told him that they could read God's word (Moses and the prophets) to escape that same fate and it is the same for people today. They have the word of God and Christians telling them of the wrath that is coming and what the eternal consequences of rejecting Christ are. Even during the time of God's wrath many will still not repent.
After I posted mine, I went through and found that you used the same illustration of the rich man and Lazarus. And it is perfect example.
lol ..yeah a typo thereNo there is no biblical support for purgatory .
That's debatable in my opinion. Though I don't have a firm belief on it. I'm convinced there is heaven and hell, not sure about purgatory.
That's a valuable reference and resource into the RCC's perspective, thanks for taking the time to reply. The RCC perspective does seem to have many elements that aren't Biblically justified, including the concept of immediate judgement after death.
Hello Runningman! The scripture above is directed at those belonging to Christ, not to those who die in their sins.
The above is also referring to those who are in Christ. There will also be a resurrection of the unjust:
"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment."
I personally don't believe that Jesus preached the gospel to those in Hades. If you will remember the information contained in the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man could not leave that place of torment, nor could Lazarus resurrect to go and warn the rich man's brothers. To preach to those who died in their sins would go against what the word of God has to say regarding this issue.
T
taylorswiftfan
Guest
if you google search anyone's profile photo from this site, you will always get "around 2 results"
don't know why that's case ???
Hello again Jocund, it would be helpful to understand exactly what the author/authors of the CCC meant there (by immediately).
That said, the Bible does say this .. Hebrews 9:27.
~Deut
do they still have free will
No. This is why it is so important that they come to Jesus now, before it is too late.
What you just said is not what Romans 8:38-39 says though. This verse is not talking about the love of God being only for those belonging to Christ. It says "the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." So that's the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. If you'll recall, the love of God through Jesus Christ is extended to everyone in the world according to John 3:16 and numerous other verses.
Again, you're missing the broader context. I didn't include entire context to keep my post as brief as readable as possible. John 5:25-29. It's talking about those who are dead, whether they are righteous or wicked, hearing the voice of Christ, in context of resurrection.
That's fine, but that's your personal opinion. The scripture I quoted to you shows otherwise. I do recall the rich man and Lazarus, but the word of God does not go against itself like you just suggested. The word of God is inerrant, it is peoples' understanding that is often flawed. Reread the verses again and think of how they can both be true. Jesus definitely preached to those who died in their sins, specifically those who died in the flood according to 1 Peter 3:18-20.
K
KT88
Guest
if you google search anyone's profile photo from this site, you will always get "around 2 results"
don't know why that's case ???
Google probably hasn't indexed your profile pic on Christianchat yet. Takes a while sometimes.
T
taylorswiftfan
Guest
it showed up on Google search but not part of CC, meaning probably taken from somewhere on the net.
Just a hunch ... maybe she is an early riser and had her Wheaties.
if you google image search anyone with their actual real profile photo, you will always get "around 2 results"
google image searches always say "around two results" whenever there are 0 results
that's why if you google image search your own profile photo or anyone else's here on this site with their real face, you will always get "around 2 results"
and no, im not an earlier riser, I have just been finding difficult to fall asleep lately
Whoops, I forgot to say that I (sadly) agree with this assessment of yours as well.
~Deut
Repenting is far more than just saying "I'm sorry". It means to change one's direction and one's lifestyle and one's self-centered world-view. When a person goes to hell they will not suddenly start loving Jesus and want to be with Him. God will not force anyone who does not love Him to spend eternity with Him. People go to Hell by choice. They refuse and reject the precious gift of God's dear Son. God will not force salvation upon anyone. This is not the Character of God.
Just because a person regrets getting caught breaking a law, it does not logically follow that they will begin to appreciate and want to obey the law.
The time to do your thinking and decision making is now, Honeypumpkin.
T
taylorswiftfan
Guest
Hello Taylorswiftfan, those are some great/important questions to consider, but I can think of one that you didn't ask (which may be helpful in answering the others).
We know that God has free will, but we also know that He has not sinned/will not ever sin. Why do you think that is
Thanks
~Deut
p.s. - so you'll have my answers to your questions above, they are "no", "yes" and "no" .. and my answer to "if free will still exists in Heaven" is "yes, it will still exist for us in Heaven".
.
I asked because Adam and Eve were created sinless but they were still able to sin because they had free will
if God could create humans with free will that would never sin, why didn't he do that with Adam and Eve ???
God is all good (as well as all knowing and all powerful) so that's why he doesn't sin despite having free will