The Bible

[soberxp]

After reading the Chinese version of the Bible and the English version of the Bible, I feel that the translation of some places is different.
I can't understand Hebrew. I don't know why.
for example:
1.love your neighbor as yourself.
2.love others as yourself.

1.not for peace but a sword.
2.not for peace but a war.

But I think these represent the translator's own cognition,It's not a deliberate change.

put love others as yourself with war or sword, you will truely understand it all.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I heard that they were changing the bible for the good of those who really love the Lord. I do believe some things will never change such as Psalms, Proverbs, and Song of Solomon.

Well that is what is called DOUBLESPEAK. So when "they" said this
"they" really meant "...for the *bad* of of those who really love the Lord". So just ignore all the changed bibles.

 

[JohnDB]

OK well we have another new member that believes they were born as a Christian

When saved BORN ONE. No one is born a Christian. You can be brought up by believing parents, but unless you make your own decision for Christ, you still not a Christian.

I don't know of any denomination that believes what you are saying...not even the Catholics. They have "confirmation" that establishes your own, personal relationship and committment with God.

 

[SophieT]

I don't know of any denomination that believes what you are saying...not even the Catholics. They have "confirmation" that establishes your own, personal relationship and committment with God.

what are you talking about? the op believes she was born already a Christian. you agree with that? if so, provide scripture that states there is a work around to believing in Christ

 

[JohnDB]

what are you talking about? the op believes she was born already a Christian. you agree with that? if so, provide scripture that states there is a work around to believing in Christ

It's catholic speak...
It's not as straightforward as it initially appears. You are accustomed to Evangelical expressions...many of which arose as being diametrically opposed to Catholicism. (Long history of guerilla warfare between the denominations)
And after visiting Europe...
American Catholics are somewhat on the rim of the pail of orthodoxy in the Catholic Church.
After working with Catholics in various countries you discover that Evangelicals and Catholics aren't that far apart... except in America.

 

[fredoheaven]

You are incorrect, since words have been both added and taken away. Such as:

1 Samuel 16:12 -- “requite good” changed to “requite me good”
Esther 1:8 -- “for the king” changed to “for so the king”
Isaiah 47:6 -- “the” changed to “thy”
Isaiah 49:13 -- “God” changed to “Lord”
Isaiah 57:8 “made a” changed to “made thee a”
Ezekiel 3:11 -- “the people” changed to “the children of thy people”
Naham 3:17 -- “the crowned” changed to “thy crowned”
Acts 8:32 -- “shearer” changed to “his shearer”
Acts 16:1 -- “which was a Jew” changed to “which was a Jewess”
1 Peter 2:5 -- “sacrifice” changed to “sacrifices”
Jude 25 -- “now and ever” changed to “both now and ever”

Of course proponents of the KJ say these changes are minor and inconsequential,
but it still obliterates their claim that no changes have been made.

These were examples of printing errors caught and corrected in the editions of the KJV.

 

[SophieT]

It's catholic speak...
It's not as straightforward as it initially appears. You are accustomed to Evangelical expressions...many of which arose as being diametrically opposed to Catholicism. (Long history of guerilla warfare between the denominations)
And after visiting Europe...
American Catholics are somewhat on the rim of the pail of orthodoxy in the Catholic Church.
After working with Catholics in various countries you discover that Evangelicals and Catholics aren't that far apart... except in America.

Oh don't tell me what I am used to dude. For all you know I used to be Catholic. I also kind of crinkle when a know it all assumes they have an answer for everything but miss the actual problem.

All you have done is point out a major fallacy in Catholicism. That helps no one.

 

[JohnDB]

These were examples of printing errors caught and corrected in the editions of the KJV.

1 John 5:7-8?
John 5:4?
Born from above vs Born again?

List is kinda long.

 

[JohnDB]

Oh don't tell me what I am used to dude. For all you know I used to be Catholic. I also kind of crinkle when a know it all assumes they have an answer for everything but miss the actual problem.

All you have done is point out a major fallacy in Catholicism. That helps no one.

You have my sincerest apologies...I was merely trying to get you to extend some grace as she is doing the best she can with what she understands... again my apologies....crucify her at your leisure.

 

[SophieT]

You have my sincerest apologies...I was merely trying to get you to extend some grace... again my apologies....crucify her at your leisure.

Oh boy. Virtue signalling when all else fails. With insults to boot. good boy! LOL!

 

[Blain]

There are and will continue to be problems translating the scriptures into English.

The English language is the absolute worst reception language for translation ever. We are missing entire major portions of grammar and vocabularies.

We are also plagued by "Westernized thinking" processes.

A lot of nuances are just not translatable. Explainable but don't translate at all.

Let me explain...

John 1:12 is as good an example as any.
In most translations (including KJV) it is translated as past tense. As if it is no longer true anymore and a false statement.
But reasonable people know better.

What is written is a situation that creates what is referred to as a nominative perfect aortist tense that actually means past, present, and future tense all at the same time.

We don't have that tense in English...never did and never will.

And that's the New Testament...
Hebrew is a metaphoric language to begin with. The metaphors often have no English equivalent. Then on top of this there are the Hebrew idioms of speech... again not translatable. The translators do the best that they can but the many various denominations today are proof that there's been some problems.

Well the english language is derived from many different languages so of course it is by far the most unique yet since when was translation or anything done by man an issue for God?

 

[Dino246]

King James commissioned a new translation of the scriptures that was to be translated according to Church of England doctrines and to get people away from the Geneva Bible's glosses. (Glosses were explanations for "difficult" passages of scriptures but with a decidedly Calvinistic bent)

When the Bible was unpopular and out of date (language kept evolving) it was revised with a few updates. (About 40 years later) but it was still unpopular. People preferred their own personal copy of the scriptures and I'm drawing a blank on the name of the translation that was popular at the time....I'll eventually remember.

Then some time even later Oxford and Cambridge universities decided to collaborate on a new Translation for the good of all of England. They used the most ancient manuscripts available and tried to stay away from the Catholic's Latin Vulgate as much as possible as it was obviously flawed.

When they finished there were some political machinations included but it was more accurate than the previous translations (they felt) and so they slapped the name of KJV on it in hopes of recovering the costs. They failed miserably.

But then in the early 1900's this Bible had no copyright claims to it and publishers put forth a huge marketing strategy to push it out there. Despite it's age and unreadability it was promoted intensely. The publishers actually made a nickel... because of the lack of royalties paid in the USA to England.

Meanwhile back in England they had moved on to yet another translation.

Thanks. I'd want to check source material on some of the details, but I appreciate the outline.

 

[soberxp]

1.and forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
2.and forgive us our debts, as we forgive others debtors.

The first translator seems doesn't want to forgive others debts, but only his own debts.

 

[fredoheaven]

1 John 5:7-8?
John 5:4?
Born from above vs Born again?

List is kinda long.

And that long list mean? You seem to be good in Greek grammar as far as in your previous post. Listing 1 John 5:7-8 as an example could you explain using Greek grammar if the thing is in favor of or against it. Thanks

 

[UCA4J]

It's catholic speak...
It's not as straightforward as it initially appears. You are accustomed to Evangelical expressions...many of which arose as being diametrically opposed to Catholicism. (Long history of guerilla warfare between the denominations)
And after visiting Europe...
American Catholics are somewhat on the rim of the pail of orthodoxy in the Catholic Church.
After working with Catholics in various countries you discover that Evangelicals and Catholics aren't that far apart... except in America.

the Catholic belief should considered irrelevant.
The Catholic church has no authority at all.

 

[Dino246]

The Catholic church has no authority at all.

Except (and sadly) what its adherents give it by their submission.

 

[oyster67]

I heard that they were changing the bible for the good of those who really love the Lord. I do believe some things will never change such as Psalms, Proverbs, and Song of Solomon.

...and the pentateuch and the judges and the old law and the prophets and the gospels and the acts and the epistles and the revelations. Hopefully they are just going to increase the print size for us blind old geezers.

 

[14meatcc]

Why do they need to change the Bible? It's preached full of half truths and lies on a grand scale of acceptance that Satan is probably wondering why we would want to mess with centuries of perfected lies.

 

[oyster67]

Why do they need to change the Bible? It's preached full of half truths and lies on a grand scale of acceptance that Satan is probably wondering why we would want to mess with centuries of perfected lies.

Bad preaching is why we need to be Berean and check it for ourselves. No lies when you read it that way. Listening to one hour of blab on Sunday morning is not enough to sustain life.

 

[JohnDB]

...and the pentateuch and the judges and the old law and the prophets and the gospels and the acts and the epistles and the revelations. Hopefully they are just going to increase the print size for us blind old geezers.

Well, if your arms were a little longer... wouldn't need them to do anything

Seriously though Christiandom is usually focused on making majors out of minors...mountains out of molehills. So adjusting the language to be received in the way it was meant is not a bad thing.

We today are still hung up on Jesus being a carpenter...when in truth he was a construction laborer...and likely worked in rock and stone. But back in the 1500's when the Bible was first becoming translated into English for the first time a stone mason was a high skill trade and carpentry was general labor. (Done in a forest)
So an adjustment was made to keep people from getting the wrong idea and "general construction worker" still isn't a single word today like it is in Greek.