That's called ' begging the question ' . The bible says that " God commands all men everywhere to repent " .
Repentance is the Gift Of God !
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No its not God's fault . The bible is clear that man is response- able . Able to respond ,and suffers the consequences of the rejection of Jesus.
Why does Jesus marvel at their unbelief? Shouldn't Jesus know that they can't believe? This is how silly systematic theology is .
what is it you think is written 8 or 12 times in scripture that i'm refusing to accept and believe?
that's a great question! why does omniscient God marvel at anything? can God be surprised??
why does He tell the disciples, 'you have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you' ?
and why does He tell the pharisees, 'you cannot believe, because you are not my sheep' ?
see, although the gospel is easily stated and the basics of our faith itself are not hard to understand, the Bible isn't 'simple' -- there are very 'puzzling' things in here, very complex things, that for thousands of years brilliant men have devoted their entire lives to trying to sort out.
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing:
but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
(Proverbs 25:2)
but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
(Proverbs 25:2)
Yes.
Let's put an end to the flawed concept that because God doesn't change that this must somehow mean God never changes his mind. This is false:
Consider King Hezekiah. God told him to get his house in order because he was about to die. Hezekiah begged the Lord to let him live, so He gave him 15 more years. God did not change, but God changed his mind! Two very different things!
Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Ex 32:14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
NASB
Amos 7:1 Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, He was forming a locust-swarm when the spring crop began to sprout. And behold, the spring crop was after the king's mowing.
2 And it came about, when it had finished eating the vegetation of the land, that I said, "Lord GOD, please pardon! How can Jacob stand, For he is small?"
3 The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.
4 ¶Thus the Lord GOD showed me, and behold, the Lord GOD was calling to contend with them by fire, and it consumed the great deep and began to consume the farm land.
5 Then I said, "Lord GOD, please stop! How can Jacob stand, for he is small?"
6 The LORD changed His mind about this. "This too shall not be," said the Lord GOD.
7 ¶Thus He showed me, and behold, the Lord was standing by a vertical wall, with a plumb line in His hand.
8 And the LORD said to me, "What do you see, Amos?" And I said, "A plumb line." Then the Lord said, "Behold I am about to put a plumb line In the midst of My people Israel. I will spare them no longer.
Another time God changed his mind was regarding the Israelites and the golden calf. God initially was going to destroy them and make a new nation of people from the descendants of Moses instead but Moses intervened and God changed His mind again and allowed the people of Israel to live.
Genesis 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Here God feels like he should not have created mankind. He regrets the decision and is very upset over it. If God didn't change his mind he would not have to regret any decisions. It also shows that he didn't know that man would have become so wicked otherwise he wouldn't have made man.
Isa 5:2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
"He dug it all around, removed its stones, and planted it with the choicest vine. And He built a tower in the middle of it and also hewed out a wine vat in it; Then He expected it to produce good grapes, but it produced only worthless ones" (Isa. 5:2).
Here God clearly expected one thing but another thing occurred proving in this particular situation showing he did not know what would occur.
God can choose to know the future or choose not to as in the above example.
Isaiah 43:25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
How does an all knowing God not remember sins? Wouldn't that be a contradiction?
For example, his knowledge of the future is "iffy" in the case of Sodom. "If I find... " Also, Jer. 18 states that God warns, then waits to see what happens, before taking action. Now, if God know the future ahead of time, he would not have to wait around to see what is going to happen.
these are great things to bring up to!
my, what interesting worms there are in this can!
because it's not 'God's omniscience' that is a silly idea we need to put an end to, but the idea that this is a simple book or that the nature of God & our salvation through Him is simple.
because along side the things you put, we need to remember things like these:
Remember this, and show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
Indeed I have spoken it;
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it;
I will also do it.
(Isaiah 46:8-11)
(Isaiah 46:8-11)
“Present your case,” says the Lord.
“Bring forth your strong reasons,” says the King of Jacob.
“Let them bring forth and show us what will happen;
Let them show the former things, what they were,
That we may consider them,
And know the latter end of them;
Or declare to us things to come.
Show the things that are to come hereafter,
That we may know that you are gods;
Yes, do good or do evil,
That we may be dismayed and see it together.
Indeed you are nothing,
And your work is nothing;
He who chooses you is an abomination.
(Isaiah 41:21-24)
God says the difference between Himself and false gods is that He knows the past, and the future. God says that He declares the end from the beginning, that He does His will and no one can stay His hand - that He declares it and brings it to pass. (Isaiah 41:21-24)
Peter, in John 21 being questioned 3 times about whether he loves Jesus, finally gets it *right* when he says "Lord, you know all things" -- God knows "all things" ((John 21:17, 1 john 3:20)) and from many things He says in Isaiah it's clear He's the only one who knows all things.
Jesus knew from the beginning who believed and who would not. God searches the hearts - Jesus searches and knows the hearts of all men. he knows every word on your tongue before you say it, and every thought and intent of your heart. in fact He is the only one who knows the heart ((1 Kings 8:39)) - secret things belong to Him, and He controls what men call 'random chance' ((Deuteronomy 29:29, Proverbs 16:33))
nothing is hidden from Him ((Hebrews 4:13)) and He says Himself that He does not change ((Malachi 3:6)) - not even a shadow of turning ((James 1:7)). Numbers 23:19 says He is not a man, that He should repent - He doesn't speak and not do it, nor does He promise and renege.
((hit character limit)) -- continued:
so how are we to understand these things? have we broken the Bible?? lol no.
a number of times He establishes the typology of a mediator. Moses 'stands in the gap' to plead for mercy, to spare the Israelites. Abraham likewise for his relatives in Sodom, and God sends angels to take them by the hand and remove them from the coming destruction -- because of mercy ((Genesis 19:16)). Job laments, there is no mediator ((Job 9:33)) and along comes Elihu, a mediator ((Job 33:6, 23-24)), one made of clay, dust and water, just like Job ((see any connection to Deuteronomy 18:15 here?)) -- and who is our Lord Jesus Christ? our Mediator, THE Mediator between God and man ((1 Timothy 2:5)), stooped to be made like us, from dust, a man, in order to reconcile us to Himself, that we may be saved.
my answer to the things you bring up? that 'repent' also means 'regret' -- and God can certainly regret and be saddened, angry, and offended. that God has spoken like a man to us because we are stupid and can't understand Him when He speaks plainly ((Romans 6:19, John 11:11-15)) and that all throughout the scripture the things He has said and done and brought to pass foreshadow and teach of Christ -- who was "slain from the foundation of the world" ((Revelation 13:8)) and who lives always making intercession for us ((Hebrews 7:25)).
God doesn't lie. Amos 7 has to be read alongside Psalm 139 & Isaiah 55 --- which makes them not simple but stupefyingly complex!!
who has known His mind? who has taught Him knowledge? what can be hidden from Him?
TLDR version:
the scripture abundantly testifies of the omniscience & unfathomable, irreversible will of the LORD God, who is rich in mercy, and the OT and NT also testifies over and over and over and over and over of Jesus Christ the Messiah being the Mediator and Salvation of the world, the living breathing tangible mercy of God, reconciling us to Himself and providing the only possible answer to the inscrutable holy justice of God that can redeem us from sin and the damnation we deservedly incur by it.
The word Give in Acts 5 and grant in Acts 11 are the very same greek word didómi and does mean to:
1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage; to bestow, give as a gift:
to supply, furnish, necessary things:
Joined with nouns denoting strength, faculty, power, virtue, δίδωμι (τίνι τί) is equivalent to: to furnish, endue,
This furnishing is the new birth, new Spiritual life and faculties. 2
1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage; to bestow, give as a gift:
to supply, furnish, necessary things:
Joined with nouns denoting strength, faculty, power, virtue, δίδωμι (τίνι τί) is equivalent to: to furnish, endue,
This furnishing is the new birth, new Spiritual life and faculties. 2
in a day and age when so many need to be saved, many make the gift of salvation unattainable like the Pharisees Jesus said were doing in Matthew 23:4NLT
"They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden. "
verse 13:
“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either."
Roman Chapter 10:9-10 is simplistic. Confess with your mouth Believe in your heart receive grace and salvation. This happens as Paul said the power of God that is in the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. That message caused Paul to say he was not ashamed of it because he knew it was the POWER OF GOD for salvation.
IF we speak the words of Jesus they will produce freedom liberty and life, Jesus is the Gospel message because HE is the
Way, the life, and the truth. NOT a way of many ways BUT the only WAY the Only Truth and the ONLY LIFE. Have the SOn have life have not the SON have no life.
"They crush people with unbearable religious demands and never lift a finger to ease the burden. "
verse 13:
“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either."
Roman Chapter 10:9-10 is simplistic. Confess with your mouth Believe in your heart receive grace and salvation. This happens as Paul said the power of God that is in the Gospel message of Jesus Christ. That message caused Paul to say he was not ashamed of it because he knew it was the POWER OF GOD for salvation.
IF we speak the words of Jesus they will produce freedom liberty and life, Jesus is the Gospel message because HE is the
Way, the life, and the truth. NOT a way of many ways BUT the only WAY the Only Truth and the ONLY LIFE. Have the SOn have life have not the SON have no life.
Repentance is part of how we are saved. We come to the point when the Holy Spirit makes it plain that we cannot save ourselves. We come to see that if we are not saved we will perish in the lake of fire for all of eternity. The Holy Spirit makes it plain that only Christ is able to save us and will save us from our sins.
We may not know all there is to know about salvation and sanctification but we do know enough to ask Jesus Christ to forgive us and give us eternal life.
Whether the Romans road or the gospel of John all scripture leads to Christ as the only Savior. Salvation by grace through faith.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We may not know all there is to know about salvation and sanctification but we do know enough to ask Jesus Christ to forgive us and give us eternal life.
Whether the Romans road or the gospel of John all scripture leads to Christ as the only Savior. Salvation by grace through faith.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Now to show why I believe that repentance is the product of the new birth, lets look at 1 Pet 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The words begotten us again, speaking of new birth, is the word anagennaō:
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
notice to be born anew is to have one mind changed, which is the essence of repentance.3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The words begotten us again, speaking of new birth, is the word anagennaō:
- to produce again, be born again, born anew
- metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
notice to be born anew is to have one mind changed, which is the essence of repentance.3
You explain it well. And being humble before the Lord as we listen for His voice, our wanting to live with the Lord in His righteousness is truly living a life of repentance, it is all part of being born again.
Do you think that this is, for each person, final and does not need daily renewing, or do you think that once we are born again we are saved forever? We are told to ask for our DAILY bread. Daniel prayed daily, timing it to correspond to the hours the Lord told him was best. Wouldn't that tell us it is necessary for us to constantly renew living with the Lord in our hearts?
Repentance is the Gift Of God !
________________________________________
Actually, repentance is the proper response to the gift of God....
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
________________________________________
Actually, repentance is the proper response to the gift of God....
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.