Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

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throughfaith said:
Yes its the redemption of the body Rom 8.23 . its not this American/ western / calvinist idea of adoption ..Where God welcomes us as orphan s into his family ,as endearing as that sounds .
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Good gravy, man, have you gone insane? Do you not realize that the New Covenant is made only with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" and the only way to partake of that Covenant is to become a "Spiritual Israelite"?

Even a blind man can see this in no way is limited to just "bodily redemption".
 
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david-a-servant said:
The scriptures teach us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling
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Yes not work FOR it . Paul demonstrated that his work for the gospel, even under extreme persecution and imprisonment actually help furthered the gospel. Paul encouraged them as they too were going through intense suffering and persecution, to work ...out ...their salvation FOR the Gospel furtherance. They have salvation , NOW DO something with it .
 
Phoneman-777 said:
Good gravy, man, have you gone insane? Do you not realize that the New Covenant is made only with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" and the only way to partake of that Covenant is to become a "Spiritual Israelite"?

Even a blind man can see this in no way is limited to just "bodily redemption".
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Again I believe what Rom 8.23 actually says and not what systematic theology teaches.
 
throughfaith said:
All the Bible is
All the Bible is FOR us ,but not all the bible is TO us .An example:
" Go build an Ark of gopher wood " is scripture thats profitable. Its FOR us , but its not TO us . Unless your building an Ark in your back yard ?
This point is usually lost on those who do not rightly divide .
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The problem is that you Dispensationalists use obvious local, limited application of Scripture to discount the spiritual and worldwide application to humanity. That way, you can cherry pick what you like and what you don't.
 
throughfaith said:
Again I believe what Rom 8.23 actually says and not what systematic theology teaches.
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No, you pick and choose what to believe, and when cornered theologically, your pride refuses to allow you to submit to the Word.

There is no other covenant God made except with Israel, and if you plan on being a partaker of it, you better become a spiritual Jew, plain an simple.
 
Phoneman-777 said:
No, you pick and choose what to believe, and when cornered theologically, your pride refuses to allow you to submit to the Word.

There is no other covenant God made except with Israel, and if you plan on being a partaker of it, you better become a spiritual Jew, plain an simple.
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When did i mention ' covenant ' ?
 
throughfaith said:
When did i mention ' covenant ' ?
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You didn't - I brought it up, remember?

You said "James was written only to the 12 tribes" meaning his words don't apply to us...so I proved that as nonsensical by showing you that New Covenant Christians are considered "spiritual Israelites", thus making James' epistle every bit as applicable to us spiritual Israelites as it is to those folks living over there in Jerusalem.
 
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Phoneman-777 said:
More Dispensationlist nonsense. Ever heard of one of the most famous examples of heart regeneration in the OT - "crook" Jacob's transformation into "overcomer" Israel?
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“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” Jesus made it clear here that John the Baptist (although filled with the Spirit in his mother's womb) and great because he announced the messiah who was to "baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire", was still under the law. Therefore the least in the kingdom heaven is greater than he because he is born of the "last Adam". Jesus' disciples were instructed to wait for the promise of the Father after he ascended to receive the power to be his witnesses. This is the regenerative power that transforms every believer and translates them into the kingdom.
 
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david-a-servant said:
“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.” Jesus made it clear here that John the Baptist (although filled with the Spirit in his mother's womb) and great because he announced the messiah who was to "baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire", was still under the law. Therefore the least in the kingdom heaven is greater than he because he is born of the "last Adam". Jesus' disciples were instructed to wait for the promise of the Father after he ascended to receive the power to be his witnesses. This is the regenerative power that transforms every believer and translates them into the kingdom.
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Amen. Takes us down a few notches.
 
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Blik said:
We are told many things about this, but what is the bottom line?

We cannot be saved through obedience to the law.

In Gelasian’s 2: 19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live to God.

Romans 6: 2 “How shall we, that dead to sin, live any more therein”.

In Matthew 3;2 we are told that the ministry of Christ centered on repentance. As Matthew spoke of Christ beginning His ministry he said consisted of: Matt:2 “Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is in hand”. If we live in a state of repentance, we live by the perfection of Christ, wanting to be sinless like Christ.

Christ told us to be perfect as the Lord is perfect. We know that is impossible except through Christ. Can we accept the sin in our life as OK and still have Christ within?

We are told that if we claim perfection, we lie. Yet all our sins are forgiven through Christ and we can live as if are perfect.

We know that there is no sin except blasphemy that we can’t be forgiven for. We also know we can depend completely on the promises of the Lord, and we are promised forgiveness if we repent and ask.

What is the bottom line from all these?
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A passage that comes to mind is

James
4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse [your] hands, [ye] sinners; and purify [your] hearts, [ye] double minded.
4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and [your] joy to heaviness.
4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

True repentance cannot happen in a proud heart.
 
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throughfaith said:
Yes not work FOR it . Paul demonstrated that his work for the gospel, even under extreme persecution and imprisonment actually help furthered the gospel. Paul encouraged them as they too were going through intense suffering and persecution, to work ...out ...their salvation FOR the Gospel furtherance. They have salvation , NOW DO something with it .
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Jesus said "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." The author of Hebrews taught "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation". Paul in Romans "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Salvation is "walking" with Christ.
 
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david-a-servant said:
Jesus said "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." The author of Hebrews taught "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation". Paul in Romans "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Salvation is "walking" with Christ.
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" Come after me " . Was this before or after the cross? They literally could physically follow him . Today if we have trusted the Gospel, we have already Found him .
 
david-a-servant said:
Jesus said "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." The author of Hebrews taught "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation". Paul in Romans "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Salvation is "walking" with Christ.
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Why did Jesus have to die ,if all we had to do was do good deeds , stop sinning ect ?
 
david-a-servant said:
Jesus said "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." The author of Hebrews taught "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation". Paul in Romans "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." Salvation is "walking" with Christ.
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" Jesus said " has to be one of the most abused phrases in Christendom. Its regularly said with no reguard to what ,when and who Jesus is speaking to .
 
sometimes in our ministries, we have to come to the realization that we may be/are speaking
to people who are chosen to be adversaries or agitating spirits, chosen to be our teachers,
teaching us how to discern between 'good & evil'...
 
Phoneman-777 said:
"Faith without works is dead" is a principle that existed since time immemorial. PLEASE READ HEBREWS 11 and 12.
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The clue to the book of Hebrews is in who its written to ..HEBREWS .So its best understood in light of who the Author is addressing.
 
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