The Resurrection and Funerals

[presidente]

I may have posted in the past about going to two funerals-- at a Baptist church and a Pentecostal church-- and hearing references to dying and going to heaven, but no references to the resurrection. I was specifically listening for it. I went to a Roman Catholic funeral, the first ever for me, for a young man who wasn't Roman Catholic but when to an Roman Catholic university. Their liturgy was full of reference to the resurrection. The prayers for the dead I'd been warned about were prayers that God would raise the deceased from the dead at the resurrection... along the lines of a prayer for God to (presumably) fulfill his word.

An aunt of mine passed away. My father was the youngest in a very large family, and all but one of his siblings have now passed on, most living into old age. I lived far from my dad's relatives and saw them once a year growing up. His surviving brother is a retired Independent Baptist pastor. I got to know just a few first cousins kind of well since some of them were grown when I was a child and did not always go to reunions, or I was out playing. The younger preacher, who I think may have taken over the church where he ministered, where my recently deceased aunt attended, spoke on I Corinthians 15. I cannot say he was exactly wrong in anything he said, but I was wondering if I had the 'pop' idea that a Christian just dies and go to heaven forever, that I would have thought any differently after that. My uncle spoke, and he talked about the resurrection of the dead. He said that one day there would be a one-world government.... the Ruler would be Jesus Christ. He also spoke out of I Thessalonians 4 about the dead in Christ rising and they that are alive and remain being caught up to meet the Lord from the dead. I thought this was appropriate since Paul wrote to 'comfort one another with these words.'

I find myself, if I attend a traditional evangelical church service and hear the altar call, I'm paying attention as to whether the gospel is preached first. I listen for doctrine of the resurrection at funerals.

How many of you have gone to church for years and never really heard the fact that the saints will be resurrected from the dead clearly taught, and hear things that reinforce the idea that the afterlife is eternity in a disembodied state in heaven? How often do you hear references to the resurrection if you attend funerals? (Hopefully you do not have to go to that many.)

 

[Truth7t7]

I may have posted in the past about going to two funerals-- at a Baptist church and a Pentecostal church-- and hearing references to dying and going to heaven, but no references to the resurrection. I was specifically listening for it. I went to a Roman Catholic funeral, the first ever for me, for a young man who wasn't Roman Catholic but when to an Roman Catholic university. Their liturgy was full of reference to the resurrection. The prayers for the dead I'd been warned about were prayers that God would raise the deceased from the dead at the resurrection... along the lines of a prayer for God to (presumably) fulfill his word.

An aunt of mine passed away. My father was the youngest in a very large family, and all but one of his siblings have now passed on, most living into old age. I lived far from my dad's relatives and saw them once a year growing up. His surviving brother is a retired Independent Baptist pastor. I got to know just a few first cousins kind of well since some of them were grown when I was a child and did not always go to reunions, or I was out playing. The younger preacher, who I think may have taken over the church where he ministered, where my recently deceased aunt attended, spoke on I Corinthians 15. I cannot say he was exactly wrong in anything he said, but I was wondering if I had the 'pop' idea that a Christian just dies and go to heaven forever, that I would have thought any differently after that. My uncle spoke, and he talked about the resurrection of the dead. He said that one day there would be a one-world government.... the Ruler would be Jesus Christ. He also spoke out of I Thessalonians 4 about the dead in Christ rising and they that are alive and remain being caught up to meet the Lord from the dead. I thought this was appropriate since Paul wrote to 'comfort one another with these words.'

I find myself, if I attend a traditional evangelical church service and hear the altar call, I'm paying attention as to whether the gospel is preached first. I listen for doctrine of the resurrection at funerals.

How many of you have gone to church for years and never really heard the fact that the saints will be resurrected from the dead clearly taught, and hear things that reinforce the idea that the afterlife is eternity in a disembodied state in heaven? How often do you hear references to the resurrection if you attend funerals? (Hopefully you do not have to go to that many.)

I disagree with your uncles claim of a one world government being led by Jesus Christ

Their will be a future one world government led by the man of sin, the antichrist for 3.5 years

During this time, the two witnesses of Revelation 11 will be in control, bringing plagues upon the world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

 

[Pilgrim]

I think that in order to understand the Doctrine of resurrection of the dead mentioned by Paul in Hebrews 6 verse 2 we should closely examine what Paul wrote concerning resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15. Before reaching this point in his letter Paul had followed two themes closely interlinked "Christ and Him Crucified" the wisdom and power of God and "The Lord's Table" which is the celebration of our new life in Christ till He comes.
Now Paul summarises his Message of Christ and Him crucified and turns to Christ's resurrection and it's meaning for us today and for time to come. The finer details of prophecy confuse many today but look at verses 23 to 25. "But every man in his own order; Christ the firstfruits: afterward they that are Christ's at His coming (Commonly spoken of as he rapture and later described in verses 51 t0 54). Then comes the end, when He shall deliver up the kingdom to God (the Father) "
Jesus spoke of two resurrections the resurrection of the just (to eternal life) and the resurrection of the unjust (to eternal judgement). Only those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and are "born again" enjoy eternal life. For me it is easy to understand what your uncle was saying for after the brief rule of the Anti Christ Jesus will come and reign for a thousand years putting all His enemies under His feet. But beware for the man of sin will come first.

 

[UCA4J]

I may have posted in the past about going to two funerals-- at a Baptist church and a Pentecostal church-- and hearing references to dying and going to heaven, but no references to the resurrection. I was specifically listening for it. I went to a Roman Catholic funeral, the first ever for me, for a young man who wasn't Roman Catholic but when to an Roman Catholic university. Their liturgy was full of reference to the resurrection. The prayers for the dead I'd been warned about were prayers that God would raise the deceased from the dead at the resurrection... along the lines of a prayer for God to (presumably) fulfill his word.

An aunt of mine passed away. My father was the youngest in a very large family, and all but one of his siblings have now passed on, most living into old age. I lived far from my dad's relatives and saw them once a year growing up. His surviving brother is a retired Independent Baptist pastor. I got to know just a few first cousins kind of well since some of them were grown when I was a child and did not always go to reunions, or I was out playing. The younger preacher, who I think may have taken over the church where he ministered, where my recently deceased aunt attended, spoke on I Corinthians 15. I cannot say he was exactly wrong in anything he said, but I was wondering if I had the 'pop' idea that a Christian just dies and go to heaven forever, that I would have thought any differently after that. My uncle spoke, and he talked about the resurrection of the dead. He said that one day there would be a one-world government.... the Ruler would be Jesus Christ. He also spoke out of I Thessalonians 4 about the dead in Christ rising and they that are alive and remain being caught up to meet the Lord from the dead. I thought this was appropriate since Paul wrote to 'comfort one another with these words.'

I find myself, if I attend a traditional evangelical church service and hear the altar call, I'm paying attention as to whether the gospel is preached first. I listen for doctrine of the resurrection at funerals.

How many of you have gone to church for years and never really heard the fact that the saints will be resurrected from the dead clearly taught, and hear things that reinforce the idea that the afterlife is eternity in a disembodied state in heaven? How often do you hear references to the resurrection if you attend funerals? (Hopefully you do not have to go to that many.)

my Dutch gran died, a few years ago.
That's my mum's side.
She wasn't religious and even banned it in her family.
Her funeral was a Catholic service.
I wasn't gonna go to it.
But I did.
The funeral was so stupid.
The pastor seemed so dumb, I coulda done the service myself.

 

[presidente]

my Dutch gran died, a few years ago.
That's my mum's side.
She wasn't religious and even banned it in her family.
Her funeral was a Catholic service.
I wasn't gonna go to it.
But I did.
The funeral was so stupid.
The pastor seemed so dumb, I coulda done the service myself.

The priest at this funeral did not say anything too odd that I recall except the liturgical stuff about asking for Mary to pray and saying we had an 'angel' looking down at us, referring to the deceased.

They had some food afterward, and I asked him if Roman Catholics believed that the deceased were angels or if they thought they were a different type of creation from humans. He agreed to the latter.

I am conscious of that sort of thing. There have been so many TV shows identifying angels with deceased spirits of human beings, while that does not seem to be supported by scripture at all.

 

[presidente]

I disagree with your uncles claim of a one world government being led by Jesus Christ

Their will be a future one world government led by the man of sin, the antichrist for 3.5 years

During this time, the two witnesses of Revelation 11 will be in control, bringing plagues upon the world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

I'm guessing my uncle is pre-trib. I'm not sure about that, but many Baptists are. So I took it to refer to Christ ruling during the millennium. Do you believe that Christ will reign during the millennium? What about in the new earth?

 

[Corban]

I may have posted in the past about going to two funerals-- at a Baptist church and a Pentecostal church-- and hearing references to dying and going to heaven, but no references to the resurrection. I was specifically listening for it. I went to a Roman Catholic funeral, the first ever for me, for a young man who wasn't Roman Catholic but when to an Roman Catholic university. Their liturgy was full of reference to the resurrection. The prayers for the dead I'd been warned about were prayers that God would raise the deceased from the dead at the resurrection... along the lines of a prayer for God to (presumably) fulfill his word.

An aunt of mine passed away. My father was the youngest in a very large family, and all but one of his siblings have now passed on, most living into old age. I lived far from my dad's relatives and saw them once a year growing up. His surviving brother is a retired Independent Baptist pastor. I got to know just a few first cousins kind of well since some of them were grown when I was a child and did not always go to reunions, or I was out playing. The younger preacher, who I think may have taken over the church where he ministered, where my recently deceased aunt attended, spoke on I Corinthians 15. I cannot say he was exactly wrong in anything he said, but I was wondering if I had the 'pop' idea that a Christian just dies and go to heaven forever, that I would have thought any differently after that. My uncle spoke, and he talked about the resurrection of the dead. He said that one day there would be a one-world government.... the Ruler would be Jesus Christ. He also spoke out of I Thessalonians 4 about the dead in Christ rising and they that are alive and remain being caught up to meet the Lord from the dead. I thought this was appropriate since Paul wrote to 'comfort one another with these words.'

I find myself, if I attend a traditional evangelical church service and hear the altar call, I'm paying attention as to whether the gospel is preached first. I listen for doctrine of the resurrection at funerals.

How many of you have gone to church for years and never really heard the fact that the saints will be resurrected from the dead clearly taught, and hear things that reinforce the idea that the afterlife is eternity in a disembodied state in heaven? How often do you hear references to the resurrection if you attend funerals? (Hopefully you do not have to go to that many.)

You are correct on all accounts.

1. Going to heaven at death is widely preached by both Catholic, Reformer and Fundamentalist
2. Going to heaven when you die is pure Babylonian mythology. There is not a single verse for it in the whole Bible
3. Going to heaven is one of the most destructive doctrines. It annuls the resurrection. It removes the REWARD of co-kingship with Christ when He returns. It removes the need for transformation of the soul. It removes the motivation for Romans 8:29 - to be conformed to Christ's image. It removes Christ inheritance, for He is HEIR to the universe, including the earth. It removes OUR inheritance for we, as children of Abraham, will inherit THE EARTH (Gal.3:29; Rom.4:13). It provokes an attitude of seeking the world's blessings NOW. It touches God's holiness because the dead are both naked and unclean. It remove any need for holy living since we are saved by faith and not works. It makes a mockery of our Lord's prayer; "Thy Kingdom COME (to earth), Thy Will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven". And finally, it demeans God the ALL-mighty. In Genesis 1:26-28 God made man for the earth. If He cannot fulfill that council, He is impotent and Satan has won (perish the thought)!

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm guessing my uncle is pre-trib. I'm not sure about that, but many Baptists are. So I took it to refer to Christ ruling during the millennium. Do you believe that Christ will reign during the millennium? What about in the new earth?

Scripture clearly teaches that their will be a future 3.5 year great tribulation, that will start with the revealing of the Antichrist in Jerusalem

The two Witnesses of Revelation chapter 11 will be prophets returned, and they will bring the plagues seen in the Revelation upon the Beast and world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

At the end of the tribulation, the two witnesses will be killed, lie in the street for 3.5 days, then God raises them to heaven before the world watching, as the final hour of earth's temptation takes place

Jesus Christ returns with fire in final judgement, the heavens and earth are dissolved by this fire, as the new heavens, earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity 2 Peter 3:10-13

There will be no Millennial Kingdom on this earth, where Jesus Christ Sits upon a throne, this will be the false messiah to the Jews, (The Antichrist)

 

[UCA4J]

The priest at this funeral did not say anything too odd that I recall except the liturgical stuff about asking for Mary to pray and saying we had an 'angel' looking down at us, referring to the deceased.

They had some food afterward, and I asked him if Roman Catholics believed that the deceased were angels or if they thought they were a different type of creation from humans. He agreed to the latter.

I am conscious of that sort of thing. There have been so many TV shows identifying angels with deceased spirits of human beings, while that does not seem to be supported by scripture at all.

the "priest" for my grans funeral, waved the bottle of incense or something over the coffin to remove any unclean spirits from her journey to heaven ...
pffft.
im pretty sure he didn't meet my gran before her death, so, he had no idea about her.
she had no interested in anything religious at all.
i wanted to correct the priest, but, being at the funeral, i didn't.
my only tears, were for my mum, burying her own mother.
the funeral was just stupid.
my gran wasn't a "bad" person, though still a sinner.
no great loss.

 

[oyster67]

The Bible speaks of a First and a Second Resurrection.

The First Resurrection awaits the bodies of those who die in Christ. It happens at the Rapture (yet future)...

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The Second Death mentioned in this verse happens 1000 years later at the Great White Throne Judgement. The wicked dead who rejected the blood of Jesus (ie Sinners) will be raised in the Second Resurrection (the Resurrection of the Damned) to be condemned to Hellfire for all eternity...

Revelation
20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Magenta]

Going to heaven when you die is pure Babylonian mythology. There is not a single verse for it in the whole Bible

Is Jesus in heaven? The Bible says He sits at the right hand of God.

Do believers go to be with Him when they pass from this world?

Since they never truly die...

There are verses that speak of spirits or souls in heaven.

For example: Ecclesiastes 12:7, Revelation 6:9–10, and Revelation 7:9–17.

And does Paul not also say, "For I am hard-pressed between the two,
having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better”

 

[Nehemiah6]

He said that one day there would be a one-world government.... the Ruler would be Jesus Christ.

The one-world government is incompatible with Christ. It belongs to the Antichrist. Perhaps he did not express himself clearly.

Anyway, I agree that the preaching of the resurrection of the saints is an important doctrine. Indeed it is the doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture, since both things happen at the same time. But the resurrection only applies to those who died in Christ. At most funerals, the preacher assumes (or implies) that the deceased is in Christ (which may or may not be true).

 

[ewq1938]

Anyway, I agree that the preaching of the resurrection of the saints is an important doctrine. Indeed it is the doctrine of the Resurrection/Rapture, since both things happen at the same time.

Almost at the same time. The resurrection actually happens first, then the living are changed into immortals and are raptured.

 

[presidente]

Scripture clearly teaches that their will be a future 3.5 year great tribulation, that will start with the revealing of the Antichrist in Jerusalem

The two Witnesses of Revelation chapter 11 will be prophets returned, and they will bring the plagues seen in the Revelation upon the Beast and world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

At the end of the tribulation, the two witnesses will be killed, lie in the street for 3.5 days, then God raises them to heaven before the world watching, as the final hour of earth's temptation takes place

Jesus Christ returns with fire in final judgement, the heavens and earth are dissolved by this fire, as the new heavens, earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity 2 Peter 3:10-13

There will be no Millennial Kingdom on this earth, where Jesus Christ Sits upon a throne, this will be the false messiah to the Jews, (The Antichrist)

I have never encountered someone with a futurist belief like you describe who does not take the millennium in Revelation literally, too.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Almost at the same time. The resurrection actually happens first, then the living are changed into immortals and are raptured.

Nanoseconds don't count.

 

[ewq1938]

Nanoseconds don't count.

Of course they do. Do you think the rapture happens BEFORE the resurrection??

 

[Truth7t7]

Almost at the same time. The resurrection actually happens first, then the living are changed into immortals and are raptured.

Yes the resurrection of all takes place at the future second coming John 5:28-29 , immediately after the tribulation Jesus Christ returns in the clouds Matthew 24:29-31

Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire, The Day Of The Lord, the righteous are resurrected and caught up

The Lords Fire In Return, 1 Cor 3:13, 2 Thess 1:7-8, Malachi 3:2, 2 Peter 3:10-13

The wicked are caught in the fire "Lake", the righteous pass through it, to the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

Judgement Complete Eternity Begins

There will be no Millennium on this earth at the return of Jesus Christ, its fire time, as the heavens and earth are dissolved in fiery judgement

The deception that Jesus Christ returns to earth, taking a throne of Dsvid is "Deception", this will be the Antichrist

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

You are correct on all accounts.

1. Going to heaven at death is widely preached by both Catholic, Reformer and Fundamentalist
2. Going to heaven when you die is pure Babylonian mythology. There is not a single verse for it in the whole Bible
3. Going to heaven is one of the most destructive doctrines. It annuls the resurrection. It removes the REWARD of co-kingship with Christ when He returns. It removes the need for transformation of the soul. It removes the motivation for Romans 8:29 - to be conformed to Christ's image. It removes Christ inheritance, for He is HEIR to the universe, including the earth. It removes OUR inheritance for we, as children of Abraham, will inherit THE EARTH (Gal.3:29; Rom.4:13). It provokes an attitude of seeking the world's blessings NOW. It touches God's holiness because the dead are both naked and unclean. It remove any need for holy living since we are saved by faith and not works. It makes a mockery of our Lord's prayer; "Thy Kingdom COME (to earth), Thy Will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven". And finally, it demeans God the ALL-mighty. In Genesis 1:26-28 God made man for the earth. If He cannot fulfill that council, He is impotent and Satan has won (perish the thought)!

What do you think Jesus means when he said those who believe in me shall never die?
And what Paul means when he said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?
To be present with the Lord is heaven even here on earth he said the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
The idea of the spirit going to the Lord at death does not diametrically oppose the resurrection. The problem is with us. If it doesn't fit into newtonian physics we can't understand it so we just reject it and try to explain it away. However God isn't bound by that. 3 distinct individuals are one God, God became a man a human, yet was also in the heavenly, water saves, wine is blood, bread is flesh, all of this is impossible yet God does it anyway. We just can accept it because we have no faith.

 

[Truth7t7]

What do you think Jesus means when he said those who believe in me shall never die?
And what Paul means when he said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?
To be present with the Lord is heaven even here on earth he said the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
The idea of the spirit going to the Lord at death does not diametrically oppose the resurrection. The problem is with us. If it doesn't fit into newtonian physics we can't understand it so we just reject it and try to explain it away. However God isn't bound by that. 3 distinct individuals are one God, God became a man a human, yet was also in the heavenly, water saves, wine is blood, bread is flesh, all of this is impossible yet God does it anyway. We just can accept it because we have no faith.

I agree, your opponents teach 7th day Adventism & Jehovahs Witnesses Annihilation, denying a literal fiery torment upon death as seen below

The beggar died, and his spirit was in comfort, while the rich man was in torment, "While" their bodies are awaiting the bodily resurrection

Annihilation is a false teachibg

Revelation 16:19-31KJV
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Corban]

Is Jesus in heaven? The Bible says He sits at the right hand of God.

Do believers go to be with Him when they pass from this world?

Since they never truly die...

There are verses that speak of spirits or souls in heaven.

For example: Ecclesiastes 12:7, Revelation 6:9–10, and Revelation 7:9–17.

And does Paul not also say, "For I am hard-pressed between the two,
having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better”

When our Lord died Matthew 12:40 says plainly that He would spend 3 days "in the heart of the earth". Ephesian 4:8-9 says He "first descended". John 20:17 says that after He "ROSE" He had "not YET ascended to His Father". His body remained on the surface of the earth in a tomb. His spirit went to the Father. The place under the earth is called "Hades". Since man was created in Genesis 2, he is a "SOUL". From then on men are called "souls" throughout the Bible. Acts Chapter 2 shows that is was to Hades that Jesus went, and that after three days He was released by the Father. But the same verses 24-35, tell us that David is still dead and still in Hades.

Ecclesiastes 12 says that the SPIRIT, not soul, goes to the Father. So also did our Lord Jesus "commend His spirit" into the Father's hands. In every case in the Bible that addresses the spirit of man says; "gave UP the ghost". Man has a spirit, but man is not a spirit. The man is the SOUL.

Revelation 6:9-10 says that the "SOULS" were UNDER the altar. When Moses made the Tabernacle he was told to COPY the Tabernacle in heaven. The Tabernacle has TWO altars: (i) the altar of SACRIFICE, which is OUTSIDE the Tabernacle but in the Inner Court. It is wood covered with brass, and on it things shed their blood. Inside the Tabernacle, hard against the Veil that separates the Holy Place for the Holy of Holies, is the "Incense ALTAR". It is a small wooden altar covered with gold and from it the incense goes up with the prayers of the saints. No blood was to be shed on this after its anointing. The altar of SACRIFICE is not needed in heaven for there is no redemption for the heavenly beings. The only altar of sacrifice is ON EARTH, for it is here that men need atonement. And this altar is not allowed to be elevated off the earth, even by steps, lest the "nakedness of the priest be revealed.

The altar of Revelation 6:9-10 is the altar where the martyrs shed their blood. They are dead and if the altar was raised you would see their nakedness - for the dead are naked (2nd Cor.5). If the altar of sacrifice, where men sacrifices their lives for Christ, is hard against the earth, then the martyrs must be under the earth.

Revelation 7:9-17 shows the great multitude who are connected with Christ. You are correct. They are in heaven for the throne is there with the 24 Elders and the 4 Creatures. But who are they. They are those who came through the Great Tribulation and "STAND" before the throne. To be raptured to the throne you must ALIVE WITH A BODY (1st Thess.4:14-17). and to "stand" you must be resurrected and alive. These are LIVING men, not the DEAD.

Scripture lays down the relationship between men and the Man Jesus. In John Chapter 4, the Lord says to the Samaritan woman that the "now is" that the Father seeks men that will worship Him IN SPIRIT - not in a mountain. Then, our Lord says in John that He must go away so that the SPIRIT may come. In 1st Corinthians 6:17 this is confirmed. "He who is JOINED to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT". In Romans 8 the whole Chapter is about this relationship via the human spirit. And then in 2nd Corinthians 5:16 we are taught; "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." If you are dead and your BODY (the flesh) is left on earth, you cannot be with the Lord in BODY. In death, the relationship of with the Lord REMAINS via His SPIRIT. It does not change because the flesh is gone. So it is NOT a case of us being in heaven, but our Lord's Spirit WITH US IN HADES! Psalm 139:7–8 says;

7 "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in HADES, behold, thou art there."

As you can see, there is a perfectly logical, and scriptural explanation for the verses you brought. Added to this, your verses did not say that the dead go to heaven. You had to read that into them. And finally, you did not attempt to deal with my arguments. I know that this doctrine of dead men going to heaven is widely taught. I know where it comes from. I make no accusation against a Christian for holding it. But I think that you will reconsider.