Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

[Kolistus]

The Pre-trib rapture is a second chance doctrine, from what i am reading, If you miss the first chance you get another one.
From the bible i understand that probation closes (and that's the end, no more grace, no more chances), and then Jesus returns to gather His children which are dead (Sleeping) or alive.

the time of trouble
the close of probation
the coming of Jesus and resurrection of the saved.
the 1000 years - Satan bond.
the Second resurrection - Satan loosed, freed.
the return of the Holy city to earth and judgement given to the lost (eternal Death).
death and evil gone forever.
the recreation of the Earth.
Eternity begins without sin and pain.

once probation closes your case is decided. no second chance.

How did you get Second resurrection before satan loosed in rev 20?

 

[Kolistus]

That is simply absurd. Do you even know the biblical purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture?

Can you tell us? I always thought the purpose of the rapture was to close the church-age. Get Christ's body completed and up to heaven.

 

[BenjaminN]

He doesn’t keep everyone alive though..there are those to be martyred.

Agreed

Also why do you call Jesus Yeshua?

My name is Benjamin in all countries I go to, an individual's name does not get translated if he travels to another country.

An individual's original name of birth does not change along with language, and it is not to be translated.

Yeshua is the name God commanded Miriam (called also Mary, although there were no Mary's among the Jews at the time of 4 B.C ) to call her Son, as He would be the one that will bring forgiveness of sin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua

Hebrew Yeshua spelling ישוע , Greek spelling Iesous (Ἰησοῦς), from which, through the Latin IESVS/Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus

Matthew 1 (Habrit Hakhadasha / Haderekh) - https://www.bible.com/bible/24/MAT.1_1.HD

21מרים תלד בן, ועליך לקרוא לו ’ישוע‘ (כלומר, מושיע), כי הוא יושיע את בני־עמו מחטאיהם.“

https://translate.google.com/?sl=en&tl=iw&text=Yeshua&op=translate

’ישוע‘ - Yeshua - (י) Yod, (ש) Shin, (ו) ??Any Hebrew scholars that can help here please??, (ע) Ayin

 

[BenjaminN]

Calling the Messiah by his original Hebrew name Yeshua, together with the Hebrew Messiah translated in Greek as Christ, and calling our Saviour by the descriptive Christ Yeshua, emphases the fact that the Body, the Bride, the restored Kingdom of Israel, Greek Gentile and Jewish Israelite, are one in Christ Yeshua. If you would like to translate Christ Yeshua into English it would be Annointed Saviour.

 

[ewq1938]

Can you tell us? I always thought the purpose of the rapture was to close the church-age. Get Christ's body completed and up to heaven.

The rapture does remove the Church ie: the living saved Christians but only for a very short time. It's purpose is actually to GATHER the Church together at one place rather than being spread around the world.

The rapture is mentioned in Matthew by Christ:

"he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds"

This tells us the elect are not in one place but scattered all over the four winds which just means they are all over the world. Christ wants them all to be gathered at one place, the clouds of Earth when he is returning. They will join Him as He descends down to complete the second coming.

Moments after the rapture, Christ returns to the Earth to complete his second coming and he comes with that same Church so any idea of "removal" is extremely irrelevant to the world since it is so brief.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

TMS said:
The Pre-trib rapture is a second chance doctrine...

That is simply absurd. Do you even know the biblical purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture?

Personally, what I think he meant was, that there will be people who will be coming to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (when they are in/experiencing the [7] trib years); whereas the "post-trib Rapture" position, by contrast, sees ZERO people coming to faith following "our Rapture".

I believe the former ^ , not the latter ^ , is the case.



So let me ask you this: do you believe people will be coming to faith in/during/within the trib years (after we've been raptured out), or do you believe NO ONE will come to faith in/during/within the trib years (after we are raptured out)?




Here's an example from Revelation (what are your thoughts regarding such a passage, in this regard?):

Chpt 14 -

6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.




(I see other examples between Rev6 and Rev19, but just pulled this one passage forward for this present post)

 

[TMS]

Some of that isn't in proper order.

the time of trouble
the close of probation
the coming of Jesus and resurrection of the saved.
the 1000 years - Satan bound.
-Satan loosed, freed, then shortly is cast into fire
the Second resurrection
judgement given to the lost (eternal Death).
death and evil gone forever.
the recreation of the Earth.
the return of the Holy city to earth
Eternity begins without sin and pain.

We mostly agree,
I see satan as being bond because he has nobody to tempt, or deceive. But when the wicked are resurrected he is freed for a short time because he has souls to tempt and people to decieve. Imagine being on a dead planet for a thousand years with nothing to do. It would be Like a jail.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Kolistus]

We mostly agree,
I see satan as being bond because he has nobody to tempt, or deceive. But when the wicked are resurrected he is freed for a short time because he has souls to tempt and people to decieve. Imagine being on a dead planet for a thousand years with nothing to do. It would be Like a jail.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Your order is all wrong. Read Revelation 20. Satan is loosed BEFORE the second resurrection:

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Satan is released, THEN fire comes, then devil is cast into the lake of fire and then after these:

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The second resurrection happens after that, verses 12 onwards.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

We mostly agree,
Imagine being on a dead planet for a thousand years with nothing to do. It would be Like a jail.

A dead planet?

 

[Kolistus]

A dead planet?

The SDAs believe this one too. That the earth will be empty and the abyss where satan is locked in at is actually earth.

 

[BenjaminN]

Some of that isn't in proper order.

the time of trouble
the close of probation
the coming of Jesus and resurrection of the saved.
the 1000 years - Satan bound.
-Satan loosed, freed, then shortly is cast into fire
the Second resurrection
judgement given to the lost (eternal Death).
death and evil gone forever.
the recreation of the Earth.
the return of the Holy city to earth
Eternity begins without sin and pain.

We mostly agree, ... Imagine being on a dead planet for a thousand years with nothing to do. It would be Like a jail.

A dead planet?

The SDAs believe this one too. That the earth will be empty and the abyss where satan is locked in at is actually earth.

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. (Where did they live and reign with Christ, it must be earth, as God the Father reigns in Heaven) 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, (If the earth is empty, how did these nations got there, to be on earth at the end of the thousand years?) Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

 

[ewq1938]

We mostly agree,
I see satan as being bond because he has nobody to tempt, or deceive. But when the wicked are resurrected he is freed for a short time because he has souls to tempt and people to decieve. Imagine being on a dead planet for a thousand years with nothing to do. It would be Like a jail.

You don't have it right yet. Satan is bound and imprisoned inside the Earth to keep him away from the nations. Those same people are still there when satan is released.

 

[BenjaminN]

You don't have it right yet. Satan is bound and imprisoned inside the Earth to keep him away from the nations. Those same people are still there when satan is released.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_core

The inner core is believed to be composed of an iron-nickel alloy with some other elements. The temperature at the inner core's surface is estimated to be approximately 5700 K (5430°C or 9806°F), which is about the temperature at the surface of the Sun.

 

[Kolistus]

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)

The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. (Where did they live and reign with Christ, it must be earth, as God the Father reigns in Heaven) 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, (If the earth is empty, how did these nations got there, to be on earth at the end of the thousand years?) Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

I agree with you, but they say for some reason that these "nations" are there because of the second resurrection, but thats not the order in which things are in Revelation 20!

 

[Scribe]

Agreed



My name is Benjamin in all countries I go to, an individual's name does not get translated if he travels to another country.

An individual's original name of birth does not change along with language, and it is not to be translated.

Yeshua is the name God commanded Miriam (called also Mary, although there were no Mary's among the Jews at the time of 4 B.C ) to call her Son, as He would be the one that will bring forgiveness of sin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua

Hebrew Yeshua spelling ישוע , Greek spelling Iesous (Ἰησοῦς),

It is impossible to know whether Gabriel spoke to her in Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew. It is probable that it was aramaic Since Galileans were known to speak Aramaic as the common language. Therefore the BEST guess would be Aramaic.

From Wikipedia:
In references to Jesus in the Talmud, however, where the name occurs, it is rendered Yeshu, which is a name reserved in Aramaic and Hebrew literature from the early medieval period until today, solely for Jesus of Nazareth, not for other Joshuas.

So maybe your supposed to say Yeshu. What if you have been saying it wrong all this time? Or what if Gabriel spoke to her in Greek and said Iesous in which case I think it sounds something like Yay soos or Yay soo or Yay sew (as in sewing a button) I am not sure. What if we are WRONG!!!! Oh NO!!! It is actually confusion.

People know who you are talking about when you say Jesus. Using these other words are confusing to them. They will think you are a cult evangelist trying to convert them to your own version of a messiah. People will not trust a preacher who uses Hebrew words here and there that have to be explained. It is suspect of some new sect of Christianity trying to draw away disciples after them.

You can do it if you want but you should know that you will cause most people to tune you out.

 

[ewq1938]

The people I am talking about are on the surface of the Earth not inside it like Satan will be. The point is Satan will be removed away from the people not the people removed from Satan.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_core

The inner core is believed to be composed of an iron-nickel alloy with some other elements. The temperature at the inner core's surface is estimated to be approximately 5700 K (5430°C or 9806°F), which is about the temperature at the surface of the Sun.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_core

The inner core is believed to be composed of an iron-nickel alloy with some other elements. The temperature at the inner core's surface is estimated to be approximately 5700 K (5430°C or 9806°F), which is about the temperature at the surface of the Sun.

But that only applies to the 3 spatial dimensions we currently inhabit in our fallen physical state. Satan is a different kind of being.
It would require a different sort of prison to hold him. I suspect there is more going on in there than the things we can quantify.

 

[Absolutely]

This was a common practice in that time. The ten virgins were waiting for the bridegroom to come and all fell asleep because they didn't expect it to be such a late night. In shock they all got up to meet the coming bridegroom, they prepare their lamps and 5 did not prepare for such a wait. they did not anticipate so long a delay. The wiser virgins can't spare their oil so the foolish 5 need to go and buy more. The 5 wise virgins go into the hall with the bridal train and the door is shut. the unwise come to the door and are denied entry and left outside.

All were expecting Jesus to come, they all had oil, and are all virgins, and all have burning lamps.
They all profess to be believers and pure believers at that, they all have experience in Gods word. they word is a lamp unto my feet and a light to may path. Ps 119:105.
The oil is the Holy Spirit. It keep us burning.
For a time the 10 virgins looked the same. So it is today.
A time of waiting will test people and faith will be tried. But the call will come, "Behold the bridegroom cometh, Go ye out to meet Him". Many will be unready. They have no oil in their vessels. They lack the Holy Spirit at that time. A knowlegde of the truth and scripture without the Holy Spirit is useless. Without the Spirit all the wisdom and willpower, all the efforts on our part are useless. without the Spirit we can not be ready and sanctified to meet the Lord. Without the Spirit we are doomed and are an easy pray for the Devil. These foolish virgins are like the people at the end that do not know God because they are content with a superficial work, and had deep communion with God.
Eze 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.
Eze 33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The character can not be transferred to another, and the same with the Holy Spirit. We need to have our own experience.
If peace and safety is being taught (or pre trib rapture) will your faith and character hold strong, will you be prepared and have the Holy Spirit when Jesus does come?
It is in the crisis that the true character is revealed. When aroused from their slumber both groups were taken unawares, but one was prepared for the emergency.
If the pre-trib rapture does not happen will you be prepared to face the hard times, and will your faith stand strong? It is too late to prepare when the time comes.

Can you pray what Jesus instructed?
"But pray that you will be able to escape the things about to come upon the world and stand before the Son of God "

That is the difference.

I can read the virgin parable in light of the myriad of rapture verses.

(That you guys ignore)

Take a look at rev 19.

Compare it back and forth carefully with the virgin parable.

Rev 19 is the second coming
Mat 25 virgin parable is the most vivid picture of the rapture I have seen.

The rapture,hands down, is way different than the second coming.


You either need the groom and bride going somewhere else besides heaven (mat 25) or you need the groom coming in power as he does in rev 19.

But all the rapture verses DO NOT fit rev 19.


There is zero postrib evidence with mat 25 gather ing of the bride.

The parable must be corrupted.

 

[Absolutely]

The Pre-trib rapture is a second chance doctrine, from what i am reading, If you miss the first chance you get another one.
From the bible i understand that probation closes (and that's the end, no more grace, no more chances), and then Jesus returns to gather His children which are dead (Sleeping) or alive.

the time of trouble
the close of probation
the coming of Jesus and resurrection of the saved.
the 1000 years - Satan bond.
the Second resurrection - Satan loosed, freed.
the return of the Holy city to earth and judgement given to the lost (eternal Death).
death and evil gone forever.
the recreation of the Earth.
Eternity begins without sin and pain.

once probation closes your case is decided. no second chance.

If you miss the rapture you are in the innumerable number.

They were martyred IN the gt.

It says they have washed their dirty robes.

Thst is the problem with a carnal non productive walk.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians "some are saved as through fire ,they are saved but their works are but up"

(The innumerable number that missed the rapture)

 

[Absolutely]

Brother, Matthew 24 does read "after".

Brother, completely empty your mind of all man invented preconceived notions, imagine yourself on an island where you grew up alone among the animals from early childhood and had no prior exposure of the gospel. Then just read only the whole of Matthew 24 literally, chronologically for what it is, it and only it, and form your concept solely upon it. What does it tell you at this stage. From there proceed with the rest of scripture, and see how it fits in on this foundation block of Matthew 24, in the words of the Master Builder of His Church, His Bride, the Restorer of the Kingdom of Israel, our blessed Christ Yeshua, speaking to all his united believers of the future, Jews and Gentiles alike.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)

29“Immediately after the tribulation...

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)

The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Yes we all agree he comes after the gt.

No question. It is fact.

But as usual postribs Omit Noah and the one taken/left, as Jesus framed it.

BEFORE the flood.

Before judgement.
The ark was lifted over a mile into the sky, early into that judgement,then returned FROM THE HEAVENS post judgement.

You guys need noah removed After flood.
You need lot removed AFTER sodom burned.
You need the baby Jesus removed AFTER herod's slaughter.

Now let's look at nebuchadnezzar and the hebrew children

Jesus protects In The furnace.

That is The Jews Protected in the Gt.

The gt is Jacob's trouble.
Israel's trouble.