The World is watching us, what do they see?

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Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#61
Jun 30, 2015
25,369
13,730
113
#61
Blik said:
Because it is true that salvations is never given through works, only by faith, that message needs to be understood in its purest form. So often in posts it is twisted to mean you must not work.
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I have read many posts in response to yours, and I don't see anyone asserting that "you must not work".

Consider this, please: If someone tells you that salvation does not depend on following the Law, and that post-salvation, adherence to the Law does not add anything to your sanctification, does that mean the same thing as "You must not work"?

NO!

Yet you persist in rephrasing everything. You don't respond to what others write. Instead, you translate their words into your own words and react to your paraphrase, attributing it to the other person.

That is like me saying, "Blik just wants everyone to follow the Law". Is that what you have said? No. What is even worse is that you complain when others misrepresent your words. Therefore, you are in practice (though perhaps not in character) a hypocrite. Please STOP rephrasing the words of others, because you consistently get the meaning wrong.

Blik said:
I find that the majority of posts put their emphasis on the twist to not work, and my posts saying so is then twisted to say you must work. It is a matter of balance. I'll bet you that your post is to say that I am not understanding this guy, that you are sure he is balancing the word properly.
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My response to you was about your comment, which was not directly relevant to ThroughFaith's comment.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#62
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#62
throughfaith said:
The Judaizers understood being set apart , Following rules and observing commands.
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A Judaizer is someone who believes that following superficial ritualistic commands is the same as following the spirit of Christ. A person who believes that it means that anything the Jews do we are not to do are as superficial as the Judaizers.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#63
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#63
Dino246 said:
I have read many posts in response to yours, and I don't see anyone asserting that "you must not work".

Consider this, please: If someone tells you that salvation does not depend on following the Law, and that post-salvation, adherence to the Law does not add anything to your sanctification, does that mean the same thing as "You must not work"?

NO!

Yet you persist in rephrasing everything. You don't respond to what others write. Instead, you translate their words into your own words and react to your paraphrase, attributing it to the other person.

That is like me saying, "Blik just wants everyone to follow the Law". Is that what you have said? No. What is even worse is that you complain when others misrepresent your words. Therefore, you are in practice (though perhaps not in character) a hypocrite. Please STOP rephrasing the words of others, because you consistently get the meaning wrong.


My response to you was about your comment, which was not directly relevant to ThroughFaith's comment.
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It is so true what you say about salvation not dependent on following the law, and posters are right in bringing this to our mind.

There is also beauty and grace in living as forgiven righteous people through the forgiveness Christ offers, but the bulk of posts do no speak of that, and I think this side of forgiveness, the repent side, should have equal coverage.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#64
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#64
Blik said:
A Judaizer is someone who believes that following superficial ritualistic commands is the same as following the spirit of Christ. A person who believes that it means that anything the Jews do we are not to do are as superficial as the Judaizers.
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Also the Jews failed to see that it was through faith not the law to attain the righteousness needed to be saved . I see some today following a variation of this . This is most people's view of christianity . Grace is hard to accept for some .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#65
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#65
Blik said:
A Judaizer is someone who believes that following superficial ritualistic commands is the same as following the spirit of Christ. A person who believes that it means that anything the Jews do we are not to do are as superficial as the Judaizers.
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The world is watching and when a Christian says " I'm saved by the blood of Jesus . He died for my sins . I believed the Gospel and recieved the Holy Spirit ..BUT !! I must do this ,I Must do that . If I do this or don't do that " . They will see that this christianity thing is no different to Islam , Catholicism, Judaism, ect .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#66
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#66
Blik said:
A Judaizer is someone who believes that following superficial ritualistic commands is the same as following the spirit of Christ. A person who believes that it means that anything the Jews do we are not to do are as superficial as the Judaizers.
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A Judaizer is someone who says Jesus + Something. Not through faith. It's Faith + a work of the flesh . Every false religion is Faith +
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#67
#67
This forum is just part of the white noise of the world. It's a form of entertainment nothing more. We come on here and read what the characters latest lines are. The world knows y'all are just play acting, because they are too. They use Facebook, we come to CC. No difference. The only thing of value here that is not there is that at least some scripture, and some exegesis does go on. The legalists and antinomians are already at it in this thread, all that's left is kjv onlyism and tongue speaking. Who wants to argue? You pick a side I'll take the other.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#68
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#68
Blik said:
There are people out in the world who wonder what Christianity is all about and pull up our site to see Christianity. Do we show them the wonder and glory of the Lord, or a world of enemies and hate?

The glory and wonders of the Lord is centered in the gospel. When the Lord dwells in man then man takes on the love that is the Lord, yet this site often shows enemies created over such as whether Sunday or Saturday is better to have church. Even the gospel is used to create enemies, as the debate goes on over sin and how it applies to the gospel.

Is there a way we can use this site to show the love that is God? Because so many take the discussion on to establish hate and enemies, do you think it is best we never discuss scripture?
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Sadly I have spoken on this many times to no avail many browse this site before joining and plenty are also new believers I have known many new believers and even veteran believers with tender hearts who were scared off from the brutality of this place some of which were dealing with suicidal thoughts and were so afraid about their sins and that God would not love them and send them to hell then of course wouldn't you know it another thread about sin and being sinless popped up only hurting these people more I pm them a lot when they were on here but I just couldn't reach them people who argued we are to be sinless and that it is in fact possible attacked and quoted scripture cherry picking and taking out of context and these poor people were only more confirmed about their standing in God no matter what I tried to say to them

Others were gentle souls and all the name calling and using scripture as a weapon hurt them and I comforted them but eventually the attacks became to much others still told me they respected me andd thought I was truly a loving soul but that the spirit of God was not here and went to join another forum, I keep saying on here that we are in a chess game between God and the devil and we are the chess pieces I keep saying how words have poower and keep saying we are called to love and be love how if you cannot debate in calm loving and Christlike manner you shouldn't be debating and that so many only seem to argue and debate to simply prove themselves right and refuse to learn or listen to anyone else's point of view how so many cherry pick and use scripture to (prove their view) and wonder why I don't use scripture very often in my posts

I have seen the usage of scripture and have seen the damage it has done to people I have seen the damage done to people because of the childish and unloving arguments and debates I have lost several cherished friends because no one would lay down their arms and actually debate as we should and it doesn't matter how many times I talk about the ones who were damaged on here people just keep doing it never knowing or seeing the damage they do in their wanting to prove themselves right or acting and talking like little second graders but what do they care? As long as they can go back forth with others and do everything they can to prove their beleifs and defeat the opposing then what does it matter?

Oh yes iron sharpens irionswhich is the main excuse given when I confront people about it but what good does it do to sharpend your blade if you only use it to attack others?
 
Lisamn

Lisamn

Active member
#69
Dec 29, 2020
795
229
43
#69
Blain said:
Sadly I have spoken on this many times to no avail many browse this site before joining and plenty are also new believers I have known many new believers and even veteran believers with tender hearts who were scared off from the brutality of this place some of which were dealing with suicidal thoughts and were so afraid about their sins and that God would not love them and send them to hell then of course wouldn't you know it another thread about sin and being sinless popped up only hurting these people more I pm them a lot when they were on here but I just couldn't reach them people who argued we are to be sinless and that it is in fact possible attacked and quoted scripture cherry picking and taking out of context and these poor people were only more confirmed about their standing in God no matter what I tried to say to them

Others were gentle souls and all the name calling and using scripture as a weapon hurt them and I comforted them but eventually the attacks became to much others still told me they respected me andd thought I was truly a loving soul but that the spirit of God was not here and went to join another forum, I keep saying on here that we are in a chess game between God and the devil and we are the chess pieces I keep saying how words have poower and keep saying we are called to love and be love how if you cannot debate in calm loving and Christlike manner you shouldn't be debating and that so many only seem to argue and debate to simply prove themselves right and refuse to learn or listen to anyone else's point of view how so many cherry pick and use scripture to (prove their view) and wonder why I don't use scripture very often in my posts

I have seen the usage of scripture and have seen the damage it has done to people I have seen the damage done to people because of the childish and unloving arguments and debates I have lost several cherished friends because no one would lay down their arms and actually debate as we should and it doesn't matter how many times I talk about the ones who were damaged on here people just keep doing it never knowing or seeing the damage they do in their wanting to prove themselves right or acting and talking like little second graders but what do they care? As long as they can go back forth with others and do everything they can to prove their beleifs and defeat the opposing then what does it matter?

Oh yes iron sharpens irionswhich is the main excuse given when I confront people about it but what good does it do to sharpend your blade if you only use it to attack others?
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I think people confuse wanting to get to the truth as in iron sharpens iron to wanting to be right. I’ve had to step back myself and say...am I trying to be right here...or am I trying to get to the truth?

I think its hard when we all think we have the truth and can bring up verses that prove..at least to ourselves what we think is true. Which is where I think iron sharpening iron does come in.

I’m not a big fan of calling names or trying to hurt others to prove a point..I think that is ego‘s on overdrive...and it doesn’t win the argument in the end.

A pastor I listen to says that God only has Christians to work with and that we are still sinners and we will hurt one another. I think he’s right.

I think its admirable of you to want to befriend the hurting here..but if you can’t reach them..there is always prayer. :)
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#70
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#70
Lisamn said:
I think people confuse wanting to get to the truth as in iron sharpens iron to wanting to be right. I’ve had to step back myself and say...am I trying to be right here...or am I trying to get to the truth?

I think its hard when we all think we have the truth and can bring up verses that prove..at least to ourselves what we think is true. Which is where I think iron sharpening iron does come in.

I’m not a big fan of calling names or trying to hurt others to prove a point..I think that is ego‘s on overdrive...and it doesn’t win the argument in the end.

A pastor I listen to says that God only has Christians to work with and that we are still sinners and we will hurt one another. I think he’s right.

I think its admirable of you to want to befriend the hurting here..but if you can’t reach them..there is always prayer. :)
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I can't say I am innocent either and sometimes when I am debating an arrogant self rightous person on here my anger gets the best me so I have to remember to shake the dust off my feet and walk away.

I mean don't get me wrong I love debates if they are done right even if your being attacked by another person you can still learn and grow from that there are many teachers and not all of the are to show what to do but what not to do and heated debates have their merit as well but when people start to just name call or act rude then that debate has lost it's value
However the ones who truly are suited to debate have the heart of a student they leave room to grow and maybe consider they could be wrong in their view and belief they respond maturely calmly respectfully and in a Christlike manner

There are actually more of these types here than there used to be but at the same time they are still pretty limited
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#71
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#71
throughfaith said:
The world is watching and when a Christian says " I'm saved by the blood of Jesus . He died for my sins . I believed the Gospel and recieved the Holy Spirit ..BUT !! I must do this ,I Must do that . If I do this or don't do that " . They will see that this christianity thing is no different to Islam , Catholicism, Judaism, ect .
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It is amazing how the very same principles can be stated as a positive principle or a negative one. Paul put it like this in Romans 6:2 "how shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein". Jesus put it like this: "my burden in light". Jesus also told us to repent, and it would be impossible to repent of sin and also tell the Lord he cannot ask you to repent of sin. Living a life of bondage to sin is not a pleasant life, living in the love of the Lord IS a pleasant life. You put it as "you must do this or that".
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#72
Nov 19, 2019
1,772
623
113
#72
Thank you OP but.. how did you come up with " Because so many take the discussion on to establish hate and enemies" Well "so many". I am to be honest.. I could not say many some or even few.

When anyone comes here.. the lord by the sweet holy Spirit lead them and they will see read what He lead them here to see and read. Have faith...as our brother Paul by the spirit of God said.. Christ is being preached. That light will always shine through. Nothing we do say think..nothing can stop that light from shining .. oh man.. NO this song playing and the word RIGHT as I was typing "light from shining through" was this "your the light that's breakin' through the dark" WOW that was so wonderful.. so beautiful!

To be talking about "shining through" and at the same time typing that I hear "you're the light that's breakin' through the dark".. man saying no more.. enough! Let Him shine not me.. oh paise GOD..
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#73
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#73
Blik said:
It is amazing how the very same principles can be stated as a positive principle or a negative one. Paul put it like this in Romans 6:2 "how shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein". Jesus put it like this: "my burden in light". Jesus also told us to repent, and it would be impossible to repent of sin and also tell the Lord he cannot ask you to repent of sin. Living a life of bondage to sin is not a pleasant life, living in the love of the Lord IS a pleasant life. You put it as "you must do this or that".
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God is good . He did not leave us in doubt how best to live as believers. How to navigate from the time we recieve christ till he returns we see how best to live . Sin is bad . It was before a person receives the atonement and it still is bad afterwards . We have the scriptures gloriously helping the believer to walk the walk whilst being seated in the heavenlies spiritually ( eph 2.6 ) ,but bodily we await the redemption of the body . What is the motivation? That the Lord keeps his promise to glorify all those who are sealed by the Holy spirit .

Eph 1.12 -13 . Rom 8.23 .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#74
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#74
Blik said:
It is amazing how the very same principles can be stated as a positive principle or a negative one. Paul put it like this in Romans 6:2 "how shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein". Jesus put it like this: "my burden in light". Jesus also told us to repent, and it would be impossible to repent of sin and also tell the Lord he cannot ask you to repent of sin. Living a life of bondage to sin is not a pleasant life, living in the love of the Lord IS a pleasant life. You put it as "you must do this or that".
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how shall we, that are dead to sin '

What is the answer ? Believe the last part and reckon ourselves indeed dead to sin . This is not a command to do something. Its a fact about something. That a believer is dead to sin . Meaning that he cannot be condemned anymore. He is now free from the penalty of sin . Justified.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#75
#75
Blik said:
There are people out in the world who wonder what Christianity is all about and pull up our site to see Christianity. Do we show them the wonder and glory of the Lord, or a world of enemies and hate?

The glory and wonders of the Lord is centered in the gospel. When the Lord dwells in man then man takes on the love that is the Lord, yet this site often shows enemies created over such as whether Sunday or Saturday is better to have church. Even the gospel is used to create enemies, as the debate goes on over sin and how it applies to the gospel.

Is there a way we can use this site to show the love that is God? Because so many take the discussion on to establish hate and enemies, do you think it is best we never discuss scripture?
Click to expand...
The best method to start a discussion on scripture is to start a discussion on a scripture.

Like. What do you think is the correct interpretation of this passage: And then quote the passage.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#76
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#76
throughfaith said:
how shall we, that are dead to sin '

What is the answer ? Believe the last part and reckon ourselves indeed dead to sin . This is not a command to do something. Its a fact about something. That a believer is dead to sin . Meaning that he cannot be condemned anymore. He is now free from the penalty of sin . Justified.
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And this interpretation of scripture is the result of not listening to scripture. Paul was discussing continuing to sin by saying Romans 6:2 "God forbid, then how shall we, who died to sin still live in it". You have changed the entire meaning of what Paul is telling you by picking out the words you want to listen to.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#77
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#77
Blik said:
And this interpretation of scripture is the result of not listening to scripture. Paul was discussing continuing to sin by saying Romans 6:2 "God forbid, then how shall we, who died to sin still live in it". You have changed the entire meaning of what Paul is telling you by picking out the words you want to listen to.
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What does 'dead to sin mean '?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#78
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#78
Blik said:
And this interpretation of scripture is the result of not listening to scripture. Paul was discussing continuing to sin by saying Romans 6:2 "God forbid, then how shall we, who died to sin still live in it". You have changed the entire meaning of what Paul is telling you by picking out the words you want to listen to.
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Clearly every believer can sin . The point is that believers have died to sin . Meaning that sin no longer has dominion over a believer. Why ? because he is now under a new way . He has been freed from the penalty of sin . A believer is to understand this reality and live it .
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#79
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#79
Love is no harm to others, any sin could harm anyone. so...........be it.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#80
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#80
Blik said:
And this interpretation of scripture is the result of not listening to scripture. Paul was discussing continuing to sin by saying Romans 6:2 "God forbid, then how shall we, who died to sin still live in it". You have changed the entire meaning of what Paul is telling you by picking out the words you want to listen to.
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Your interpretation is the same as the Jehovah's_Witnesses and Mormons . That they must die to sin themselves and work for their salvation by doing good deeds and observing the commandments till the end . Jesus actually died for sins thats what you don't realise . He didn't die so that people could have a ' opportunity to be saved if they behave themselves ' . He didn't die to give people a fighting chance to do their bit . Mormons teach that " your saved by grace ,AFTER all that YOU can DO . " . Is this what you teach? if no then what's different in principle?
 
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