The World is watching us, what do they see?

[SoulWeaver]

verses 109. Many of the People of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. Forgive and be indulgent (toward them) until Allah give command. Lo! Allah is Able to do all thing

Also, you must not kill innocent people, Allah will not hold you innocent, I can't remember which verses .
That's what it means.



Sorry to discuss the Koran here

Unlike the Christian theology which states that there is no contradiction and verses must be reconciled to make sense together, Islamic theology follows the principle of ABROGATION.
Meaning, that when a new prophetic instruction is written that contradicts the old, the old is cancelled.
The last stuff that was written was hostile to the unbelievers. Thus effectively abrogating the previous peaceful instructions.

Naskh (tafsir) - Wikipedia

 

[Magenta]

Unlike the Christian theology which states that there is no contradiction and verses must be reconciled to make sense together, Islamic theology follows the principle of ABROGATION.
Meaning, that when a new prophetic instruction is written that contradicts the old, the old is cancelled.
The last stuff that was written was hostile to the unbelievers. Thus effectively abrogating the previous peaceful instructions.

Naskh (tafsir) - Wikipedia

Plus, the Qur'an is not in chronological order, but arranged roughly longest surah (chapter) to the shortest. Not to mention there is no way to validate any of it, since all original copies were burned to eliminate discrepancies that existed in copies at the time of the burning.

Even so, we have had Muslims come here trying to tell us the original still exists.

It does not. But Islam also teaches that it tis okay to lie for the cause of the spread of Islam.

 

[soberxp]

Unlike the Christian theology which states that there is no contradiction and verses must be reconciled to make sense together, Islamic theology follows the principle of ABROGATION.
Meaning, that when a new prophetic instruction is written that contradicts the old, the old is cancelled.
The last stuff that was written was hostile to the unbelievers. Thus effectively abrogating the previous peaceful instructions.

Naskh (tafsir) - Wikipedia

That's not right. The last part is about judgment, not murder? If Allan's murder is murder?

 

[SoulWeaver]

That's not right. The last part is about judgment, not murder? If Allan's murder is murder?

They were not written in order by which they appear in Koran.

 

[mustaphadrink]

There are people out in the world who wonder what Christianity is all about and pull up our site to see Christianity. Do we show them the wonder and glory of the Lord, or a world of enemies and hate?

The glory and wonders of the Lord is centered in the gospel. When the Lord dwells in man then man takes on the love that is the Lord, yet this site often shows enemies created over such as whether Sunday or Saturday is better to have church. Even the gospel is used to create enemies, as the debate goes on over sin and how it applies to the gospel.

Is there a way we can use this site to show the love that is God? Because so many take the discussion on to establish hate and enemies, do you think it is best we never discuss scripture?

I don't know where you have been lately Blik, but you will find a lot of scripture in my posts. I work to a rule when studying anything to start with scripture and then work out from there. Or what I say is an explanation of scripture.

 

[throughfaith]

They see ' religion ' because even Christians are mixed up about ' works salvation ' .

 

[UCA4J]

Imo..the church is asleep right now. It needs to repent and get back to its first love.
It has allowed many false doctrine, idealisim, and theology to creep in to its main stream.
That is why you do not see the gifts of the spirit working mightly today.
It has become fearful of confrontation and its focus has been upon quantity instead of quality.
We are guilty of many atrocities which we have aided in history in the past.
Bringing a quenching of the Holy Spirit.
I included myself in this judgement and ask God to lift this quenching from the saints.
New age thinking has done its damage and left the church as non effect.
We need to repent and ask forgiveness only then will you see revival.

which church is asleep ?

 

[Blik]

They see ' religion ' because even Christians are mixed up about ' works salvation ' .

I don't think true Christians are mixed up about "works salvation" at all, but I see some pretty mixed up people who think they can have Christ living within and want to keep their sin, it is salvation without repentance. They even fight about it.

Paul wondered at these people. He said: Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Christ said: Matt_5:48 " Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". We know the only way to be perfect is through Christ, but if we decide we like our sins a lot better than being perfect, the Lord lets us have that. It is a choice, we can't want our sin and want to be perfect at the same time. We accept perfection through Christ or we reject it.

 

[throughfaith]

I don't think true Christians are mixed up about "works salvation" at all, but I see some pretty mixed up people who think they can have Christ living within and want to keep their sin, it is salvation without repentance. They even fight about it.

Paul wondered at these people. He said: Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Christ said: Matt_5:48 " Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". We know the only way to be perfect is through Christ, but if we decide we like our sins a lot better than being perfect, the Lord lets us have that. It is a choice, we can't want our sin and want to be perfect at the same time. We accept perfection through Christ or we reject it.

The main contention Paul faced, was being accused of preaching ' licence ' . A message against the law and ' liberty ' . They did not understand grace so accused Paul of preaching against moses .

 

[throughfaith]

I don't think true Christians are mixed up about "works salvation" at all, but I see some pretty mixed up people who think they can have Christ living within and want to keep their sin, it is salvation without repentance. They even fight about it.

Paul wondered at these people. He said: Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Christ said: Matt_5:48 " Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect". We know the only way to be perfect is through Christ, but if we decide we like our sins a lot better than being perfect, the Lord lets us have that. It is a choice, we can't want our sin and want to be perfect at the same time. We accept perfection through Christ or we reject it.

Most unbelievers think being a Christian is Joining something/ pledging a commitment to do good / appease God through good deeds and or keeping rules, requirements in order to get to heaven. Sadly a great deal of ' christians ' more or less preach and teach this , if not more subtly .

 

[pottersclay]

which church is asleep ?

The body of christ.

 

[Blik]

The main contention Paul faced, was being accused of preaching ' licence ' . A message against the law and ' liberty ' . They did not understand grace so accused Paul of preaching against moses .

That is not how I understand what was happening. They understood grace, the unmerited deliverance from sin. But Paul taught that the gentiles did not have to obey the rules for living that were part of their culture like circumcision.

What they didn't understand was that cutting flesh, never eating pork, and such as parading in sackcloth pretending to pray wasn't true obedience, but true obedience was to be people set apart for the Lord, being careful that their minds were fed pure things, and prayer as a private conversation with the Lord.

 

[Blik]

Most unbelievers think being a Christian is Joining something/ pledging a commitment to do good / appease God through good deeds and or keeping rules, requirements in order to get to heaven. Sadly a great deal of ' christians ' more or less preach and teach this , if not more subtly .

A true Christian teaches forgiveness of sin through Christ. A "don't work for salvation" person teaches that after salvation you need not live with the Lord in your heart for that is the no no of working for the Lord.

 

[Dino246]

A "don't work for salvation" person teaches that after salvation you need not live with the Lord in your heart for that is the no no of working for the Lord.

Hogwash. Once again you are utterly corrupting the words of others and completely misrepresenting the message.

 

[Blik]

Hogwash. Once again you are utterly corrupting the words of others and completely misrepresenting the message.

Because it is true that salvations is never given through works, only by faith, that message needs to be understood in its purest form. So often in posts it is twisted to mean you must not work. It can be twisted in the opposite way, to say it is our work that saves. I find that the majority of posts put their emphasis on the twist to not work, and my posts saying so is then twisted to say you must work. It is a matter of balance. I'll bet you that your post is to say that I am not understanding this guy, that you are sure he is balancing the word properly.

 

[Magenta]

A true Christian teaches forgiveness of sin through Christ. A "don't work for salvation" person teaches that after salvation you need not live with the Lord in your heart for that is the no no of working for the Lord.

The Biblical view is that we do works that were prepared for us beforehand.

For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:10

It is also a Biblical truth that these works are accomplished by God working through us.

for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Philippians 2:13

 

[throughfaith]

That is not how I understand what was happening. They understood grace, the unmerited deliverance from sin. But Paul taught that the gentiles did not have to obey the rules for living that were part of their culture like circumcision.

What they didn't understand was that cutting flesh, never eating pork, and such as parading in sackcloth pretending to pray wasn't true obedience, but true obedience was to be people set apart for the Lord, being careful that their minds were fed pure things, and prayer as a private conversation with the Lord.

The Judaizers understood being set apart , Following rules and observing commands.

 

[throughfaith]

A true Christian teaches forgiveness of sin through Christ. A "don't work for salvation" person teaches that after salvation you need not live with the Lord in your heart for that is the no no of working for the Lord.

When I say 'works salvation ' I don't mean that we don't work for the Lord . I mean that works dont keep us saved .

 

[throughfaith]

That is not how I understand what was happening. They understood grace, the unmerited deliverance from sin. But Paul taught that the gentiles did not have to obey the rules for living that were part of their culture like circumcision.

What they didn't understand was that cutting flesh, never eating pork, and such as parading in sackcloth pretending to pray wasn't true obedience, but true obedience was to be people set apart for the Lord, being careful that their minds were fed pure things, and prayer as a private conversation with the Lord.

They did not understand salvation through grace. Hence the book of Galations and ephesians labours on this. Its the same today. Some still want to put their works into the Gospel.

 

[throughfaith]

A true Christian teaches forgiveness of sin through Christ. A "don't work for salvation" person teaches that after salvation you need not live with the Lord in your heart for that is the no no of working for the Lord.

A person who believes that he is saved by grace by believing the gospel does not forget himself. Those that err on the ' works salvation ' no matter how subtle the variety, forgets who is was when he first trusted Christ . He was a helpless sinner with nothing to offer . later this is forgotten and pride takes over . He began in the Spirit and is now trying to be made perfect in the flesh. Or worse still , he never truly trusted in Christ to begin with .