Did the Lord want the nations to hear what He told Israel?

[Blik]

The Lord wanted the nations to look to Israel and see the graciousness, the majesty, the holiness of the Lord and make Him their God instead of making dead idols their god. God wanted Israel to obey Him so they could be an example to them.

Genesis 12: 3-4 I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

This had two meanings---- it predicted Christ, and told of Israel being an example for the nations to follow.

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before you.
For kingship belongs to the LORD,
and he rules over the nations.

Psalms 67:1 May God be gracious to us and bless us
and make his face to shine upon us,
that your way may be known on earth,
your saving power among all nations.
Let the peoples praise you, O God;
let all the peoples praise you!

Isaiah 56:5………. the foreigner is not kept from joining Himself to the Lord. Rather, he will be brought into God’s holy mountain. His sacrifices will be accepted, and he will experience the joy of the Lord.

 

[pottersclay]

The nation of Israel will be the light of all nations.
Many look at israel even today as a nation that God has rejected. That because of the rejection of the Christ God has left them and placed the church in its stead.
They then try to say because of the many tribulations Israel has gone through that it is the Lord punishing them.
They then say that jesus being the final and altimate sacrifice that there is no need for Israel and its temple to be built.
These arguments sound convincing and conclusive but couldnt be more further from the truth.

Israel is one of the greatest of Gods creations. It is Gods footprint in history for all to see.
No other nation in the world has withstood the test of time and tribulation such as Israel has.
Does not God chasten the son he loves?
For if God judged israel and rejected him then surely they would not exist today.
Look at noahs flood. Look at sodom, ever meet a edimite or any of the ites?
Are we as the church to say we are without sin before the Lord.
Gods grace is great and enduring, his power is un matched, his love is forever, his word is his bond. His ways are not our ways.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
We serve a holy...holy...holy....God.
If we who has no skin in the bloodline and family of God can be saved and born again through a jewish messiah then Israel who was and is Gods chosen people can be saved.
For he has scattered them, brought them back, and he will redeem them....see if it is so.

 

[Blik]

The nation of Israel will be the light of all nations.
Many look at israel even today as a nation that God has rejected. That because of the rejection of the Christ God has left them and placed the church in its stead.
They then try to say because of the many tribulations Israel has gone through that it is the Lord punishing them.
They then say that jesus being the final and altimate sacrifice that there is no need for Israel and its temple to be built.
These arguments sound convincing and conclusive but couldnt be more further from the truth.

Israel is one of the greatest of Gods creations. It is Gods footprint in history for all to see.
No other nation in the world has withstood the test of time and tribulation such as Israel has.
Does not God chasten the son he loves?
For if God judged israel and rejected him then surely they would not exist today.
Look at noahs flood. Look at sodom, ever meet a edimite or any of the ites?
Are we as the church to say we are without sin before the Lord.
Gods grace is great and enduring, his power is un matched, his love is forever, his word is his bond. His ways are not our ways.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
We serve a holy...holy...holy....God.
If we who has no skin in the bloodline and family of God can be saved and born again through a jewish messiah then Israel who was and is Gods chosen people can be saved.
For he has scattered them, brought them back, and he will redeem them....see if it is so.

In less than three more years I will have lived for a 100 years, so I have watched the world change its attitude toward life. The world I was born in would not have understood the world of today, and what you have written about the Jews could not have been written then.

I think this understanding will grow. It seems to me that there is less and less understanding of the lord today, but the remnant is stronger and wiser. The Jews, and how the Lord works with them seems to be the pivotal point. For almost 2,000 years since the book of Revelation prophesied, there was little of that prophecy to be seen in the world. Then in the 40's all began to develop until now it is evident the Jews as a nation was preserved by the Lord all this time, and we see it in prophecy coming true.

 

[soberxp]

In less than three more years I will have lived for a 100 years.

WOW,97 years old!

 

[Dino246]

The Lord wanted the nations to look to Israel and see the graciousness, the majesty, the holiness of the Lord and make Him their God instead of making dead idols their god. God wanted Israel to obey Him so they could be an example to them.

Genesis 12: 3-4 I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

This had two meanings---- it predicted Christ, and told of Israel being an example for the nations to follow.

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before you.
For kingship belongs to the LORD,
and he rules over the nations.

Psalms 67:1 May God be gracious to us and bless us
and make his face to shine upon us,
that your way may be known on earth,
your saving power among all nations.
Let the peoples praise you, O God;
let all the peoples praise you!

Isaiah 56:5………. the foreigner is not kept from joining Himself to the Lord. Rather, he will be brought into God’s holy mountain. His sacrifices will be accepted, and he will experience the joy of the Lord.

God called Abraham out of Ur soon after He divided the nations at Babel. He made a nation out of one person, and promised to bless all the nations through him, which He did by sending Jesus, the physical descendant of Abraham. Between those two events, God built Israel into a distinct nation and gave them His Law by which they could worship Him. He made provision for individuals from other nations to join Israel, but made no effort to "spread the gospel of Yahweh" through Israel. God did not tell Israel to tell the other nations about the Law or about Him.

In contrast, Jesus did tell His followers to tell all the nations about Him.

Here are the three assertions from your opening post:

- The Lord wanted the nations to look to Israel and see the graciousness, the majesty, the holiness of the Lord
- and make Him their God instead of making dead idols their god.
- God wanted Israel to obey Him so they could be an example to them.

I see scant evidence in Scripture for any of these. There is, however, plenty of evidence that God did not want Israel following the gods of other nations. God's plan was not to bless other nations with, by, or through the Law, but through Jesus. There is no evidence that He ever gave the Law to any other nation.

 

[Blik]

God called Abraham out of Ur soon after He divided the nations at Babel. He made a nation out of one person, and promised to bless all the nations through him, which He did by sending Jesus, the physical descendant of Abraham. Between those two events, God built Israel into a distinct nation and gave them His Law by which they could worship Him. He made provision for individuals from other nations to join Israel, but made no effort to "spread the gospel of Yahweh" through Israel. God did not tell Israel to tell the other nations about the Law or about Him.

In contrast, Jesus did tell His followers to tell all the nations about Him.

Here are the three assertions from your opening post:

- The Lord wanted the nations to look to Israel and see the graciousness, the majesty, the holiness of the Lord
- and make Him their God instead of making dead idols their god.
- God wanted Israel to obey Him so they could be an example to them.

I see scant evidence in Scripture for any of these. There is, however, plenty of evidence that God did not want Israel following the gods of other nations. God's plan was not to bless other nations with, by, or through the Law, but through Jesus. There is no evidence that He ever gave the Law to any other nation.

We agree on most points, but there are others that, to me, are glaringly different from your post.

When God said the nation he established would bless all other nations, scripture does not say that means only that Christ would be born of them. You are limiting God by limiting the blessings.

You are discounting every scripture that tells of God's care and love for the nations saying they are not evidence----what is your idea then of what they are evidence of?

You are also limiting the "law". God is spirit, the law is of God. The law is not some words written in stone on Mt Sinai.

 

[Magenta]

We agree on most points, but there are others that, to me, are glaringly different from your post.

When God said the nation he established would bless all other nations, scripture does not say that means only that Christ would be born of them. You are limiting God by limiting the blessings.

You are discounting every scripture that tells of God's care and love for the nations saying they are not evidence----what is your idea then of what they are evidence of?

You are also limiting the "law". God is spirit, the law is of God. The law is not some words written in stone on Mt Sinai.

You lack a great deal of understanding what others are saying to you. The blessing to the world through Abraham was, is, and always will be Jesus, to all who accept the shedding of His righteous blood for the propitiation of their sins, that they may be reconciled to God and attain to life ever after. It was God's plan from before the foundation of the world. It is not limiting God in any way to state the truth of this matter...

 

[JohnRH]

The Lord wanted the nations to look to Israel and see the graciousness, the majesty, the holiness of the Lord and make Him their God instead of making dead idols their god. God wanted Israel to obey Him so they could be an example to them.

Genesis 12: 3-4 I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

This had two meanings---- it predicted Christ, and told of Israel being an example for the nations to follow.

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before you.
For kingship belongs to the LORD,
and he rules over the nations.

Psalms 67:1 May God be gracious to us and bless us
and make his face to shine upon us,
that your way may be known on earth,
your saving power among all nations.
Let the peoples praise you, O God;
let all the peoples praise you!

Isaiah 56:5………. the foreigner is not kept from joining Himself to the Lord. Rather, he will be brought into God’s holy mountain. His sacrifices will be accepted, and he will experience the joy of the Lord.

Yes, I agree. God chose to minister His revelation and offer of salvation through Israel to all nations. This began began long before the incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 3
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. ... Is he the God ... also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the ... uncircumcision through faith.

For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Romans 9:17 (KJV)
And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth. Ex 9:16 (KJV)

Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations. 1 Chron 16:24 (KJV)

Joshua 2:10-11
[Rahab speaking] 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.
11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.

Psalm 83
They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. ... They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. ... Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish: That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Malachi chapter 1
... I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, ... And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The LORD will be magnified from the border of Israel. ... For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. ... But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.

 

[Guojing]

The Lord wanted the nations to look to Israel and see the graciousness, the majesty, the holiness of the Lord and make Him their God instead of making dead idols their god. God wanted Israel to obey Him so they could be an example to them.

Genesis 12: 3-4 I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

This had two meanings---- it predicted Christ, and told of Israel being an example for the nations to follow.

Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
shall worship before you.
For kingship belongs to the LORD,
and he rules over the nations.

Psalms 67:1 May God be gracious to us and bless us
and make his face to shine upon us,
that your way may be known on earth,
your saving power among all nations.
Let the peoples praise you, O God;
let all the peoples praise you!

Isaiah 56:5………. the foreigner is not kept from joining Himself to the Lord. Rather, he will be brought into God’s holy mountain. His sacrifices will be accepted, and he will experience the joy of the Lord.

Since God preserved what he said to Israel in Scripture, for us to read, it is safe to answer with a yes, he wants us to hear it.

It does not follow that God also wants us to also obey what he said to Israel though.

 

[jb]

WOW,97 years old!

Congratulations sir!

I see you live in the US, if you lived in the UK, (the) Queen (Elizabeth II) would send you a telegram on your 100th birthday...

 

[Blik]

Since God preserved what he said to Israel in Scripture, for us to read, it is safe to answer with a yes, he wants us to hear it.

It does not follow that God also wants us to also obey what he said to Israel though.

I think they Lord wants all people to obey Him, I don't think the Lord divides us as people do. I think the Lord only divides Israel out as a thank you for being caretakers of His word.

When the Lord told us we do not need to obey the physical commands we say are Jewish only, I think the Lord tells mankind they do not need to obey those commands, it was only that only Israel had listened to Him.

When Constantine came along, he made the ruling that if the Jews to it, we must not do it according to some of his letters that have been preserved. I don't think that is of God, for the Jews believe in the forgiveness of sin, and in the grace of the Lord. If it was true we are to judge what we do by looking at what the Jews do, we would be saying not to listen to grace and prayer.

 

[Guojing]

I think they Lord wants all people to obey Him, I don't think the Lord divides us as people do. I think the Lord only divides Israel out as a thank you for being caretakers of His word.

Exodus 19
3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Elsewhere God also told Israel

Deuteronomy 7:3-5

King James Version

3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

 

[crossnote]

Did the Lord want the nations to hear what He told Israel?


Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
(Mat 28:19-20)

 

[Blik]

Exodus 19
3 And Moses went up unto God, and the Lord called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;

4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Elsewhere God also told Israel

Deuteronomy 7:3-5

King James Version

3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

There is absolutely no question what so ever that God spoke to Israel as the caretakers of his word. That is WELL established through scripture. The question is this: Did the Lord require the nations to not listen to anything the Lord told Israel? That is what so many of todays Christians are saying, and I don't think that was a requirement the Lord gave mankind at all. There is no scripture that backs this, I think it is an error conclusion.

If we weren't to hear anything the Lord told Israel, if it was something that applied ONLY to Israel, then the Lord would not have given us His word with these words included. Israel would have a separate bible.

 

[Guojing]

There is absolutely no question what so ever that God spoke to Israel as the caretakers of his word. That is WELL established through scripture. The question is this: Did the Lord require the nations to not listen to anything the Lord told Israel? That is what so many of todays Christians are saying, and I don't think that was a requirement the Lord gave mankind at all. There is no scripture that backs this, I think it is an error conclusion.

If we weren't to hear anything the Lord told Israel, if it was something that applied ONLY to Israel, then the Lord would not have given us His word with these words included. Israel would have a separate bible.

As I said, we are to hear them, but it does not follow that God wants us to follow those same words.

You don't build an ark now, even though you could read those instructions given to Noah, do you?

 

[JaumeJ]

When reading the Word we find that he people who believe God (Jesu_Yeshua(, are to "rule with Him."

Israel may be translated to rule with El, to rule with God.

We who believe are Israel. Every word in the Word is directed to us for learning.

 

[Guojing]

When reading the Word we find that he people who believe God (Jesu_Yeshua(, are to "rule with Him."

Israel may be translated to rule with El, to rule with God.

We who believe are Israel. Every word in the Word is directed to us for learning.

Where is Scripture for all your claims there?

 

[JaumeJ]

Being taught by the Holy Spirit, we are entitled to share likewise.

However if you need text to satisfy your question begin at "in the beginning" and you may terminate at the final "amen" of Revelation.

 

[Blik]

As I said, we are to hear them, but it does not follow that God wants us to follow those same words.

You don't build an ark now, even though you could read those instructions given to Noah, do you?

So the Lord is just whistling in the wind?

 

[Guojing]

So the Lord is just whistling in the wind?

You cannot learn from history without having to follow what they did?