Sins cannot be charged!

[posthuman]

i will say tho, it's nice to meet someone here who doesn't call me a calvinist.

 

[throughfaith]

Doesnt matter, God viewed Christ slain from the foundation of the world and thats what matters Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[for sins] from the foundation of the world.

Slain ' from ' the foundation .

Gen 3.15 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[throughfaith]

Doesnt matter, God viewed Christ slain from the foundation of the world and thats what matters Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[for sins] from the foundation of the world.

That's a slippery slope to hang doctrines on the topic of the ' book of life ' ect . Book of the living , books and book in revelation . But again false doctrines are usually built on the obscure verses .

 

[throughfaith]

No wrath of God on them Christ died for, He took their wrath, and propitiated God for, and sin will not be charged to the !

The whole world was reconciled. You have been duped into thinking this means people will believe and RECIEVE Jesus . Receiving Jesus is what saves . God has dealt with the issue ( barrier ) of sin and made the way of ' faith ' the appropriation for all to come .

 

[posthuman]

That's a slippery slope to hang doctrines on the topic of the ' book of life ' ect . Book of the living , books and book in revelation . But again false doctrines are usually built on the obscure verses .

it's safer to be able to give 2 or 3 verses that plainly state something, then it is to form doctrine around something that's not actually written anywhere, yes.

& my feeling is that if i seem like i might be contradicting scripture, i'd better be able to convincingly show that i'm not. if i can't do that i ought to keep my mouth shut

 

[Nehemiah6]

...He did die for, namely His Sheep or Church...

You are obsessed with promoting this lie even after you have been shown the truth from Scripture. So it would appear that it is Satan who is egging you on to push propaganda (lies) instead of truth.

While it is true that Christ died for the Church, it is equally true that He died for the sins of the whole world. But only those who receive Him as Lord and Savior are saved.

 

[throughfaith]

1 Cor 15:3-4

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

If Christ died for our sins, for He didn't die for everyone's sins, but if we're blessed to be of those He did die for, namely His Sheep or Church, then one thing is for certain, our sins cannot and will not be charged to us.

Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. 1

If a person does not RECIEVE Jesus then they will not be glorified . Only those that recieve Jesus, being sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption will recieve the Adoption .

Rom 8.23 .

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

True, but then you are not a Calvinist or a person with that understanding if I am not mistaken.

You are correct. I see it's teachings among the roots of pagan beliefs first pushed by Gnostics as St Augustine changed his beliefs later in his life. St Augustine's writings greatly influenced John Calvin. The early church fathers did not speak for determinism and defended the concept of free will.

Here is a scholar speaking on this topic.

The many gnostic similarities are alarming in my understanding of Calvinist roots.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

What you going to do with the fact that God doesnt charge sin upon certain people ?

I will rejoice
The justification for those who believeth in Christ will be credited the righteousness of Christ. Our sins are credited to Jesus due to the sacrifice on the cross. A gift given through the sovereign grace of God. The only thing God asks of us, is faith in the Son.

 

[SophieT]

No thats right. Them Christ died for, God will not charge them with sin. That does not apply to all without exception, sorry !

Oh great. Another one that has a problem with basic English. Well then, thems too bad.

One thing though. Did I say everyone is saved or that no one is not saved?

NO I DID NOT. smh

 

[brightfame52]

sure.

now what about 1 John 2:2, 1 Corinthians 5:14-15, and Hebrews 2:9 ?

because John 10:26 does not say He only died for His own sheep and no one else. what it says is that His sheep believe; those who are not His sheep do not believe.
it's true of course -- but it's deflecting.

The same His Sheep. Now them Christ died for cant have sin imputed to them, so we know that's not all without exception, unless you believe in universalism, which is error.

 

[brightfame52]

Slain ' from ' the foundation .

Gen 3.15 15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Yes cant you read ?

 

[throughfaith]

Yes cant you read ?

ok but Jesus was actually crucified when ?

 

[brightfame52]

The whole world was reconciled. You have been duped into thinking this means people will believe and RECIEVE Jesus . Receiving Jesus is what saves . God has dealt with the issue ( barrier ) of sin and made the way of ' faith ' the appropriation for all to come .

Impossible because if that was true the whole world shall be saved,. Whats the promise to the reconciled here ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[brightfame52]

If a person does not RECIEVE Jesus then they will not be glorified . Only those that recieve Jesus, being sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption will recieve the Adoption .

Rom 8.23 .

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Rabbit trail. Those Christ died for are saved, blessed ecause sin wont e charged to them.

 

[brightfame52]

ok but Jesus was actually crucified when ?

33 ad. But in Gods estimation, who is Eternal, and not confined to time, He was slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8. So He viewed Christ already slain in Jn 8 24.

OT Prohecy had Him already slain for sins Isa 53:

All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,
so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment:
and who shall declare his generation?
for he was cut off out of the land of the living:
for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Jesus only died for those that his Father gave him, and he said that he would not lose any, but raise them up at the last day.

Jesus was a sacrifice to pay for the sins of those that his Father gave him. His sacrifice was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind, for mankind's acceptance.

Jesus only died for those that his Father gave him

The Father was very graceful.

1 John 2:2
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

God gave all. God incarnate, God in the flesh. God sacrificed himself for our sins, the sins of the world.

His sacrifice was an offering to God,

Jesus is God. The Son within the Trinity of the Godhead. The sacrifice was the atonement. It took God who was perfect and holy to cover for the justice He Himself must hold creation to.

and not to mankind, for mankind's acceptance.

Then you must ignore all the scriptures about the call to believe, have faith, or stay in faith.

and he said that he would not lose any,

God would never lose or give up on those who love and accept Him. How can their be hope for the apostate if they choose to walk away from God?


Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

But we have been through this in other forums. Really just speaking to the OP.

 

[SophieT]

Yes cant you read ?

 

[throughfaith]

Impossible because if that was true the whole world shall be saved,. Whats the promise to the reconciled here ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Because we are saved by his LIFE !!!!!
For IF , WHEN we were ENEMIES ( WHICH IS EVERYONE YET SAVED ) , we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son( Read 2cor 5 19 ) much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.' Saved' has different meanings .

 

[throughfaith]

33 ad. But in Gods estimation, who is Eternal, and not confined to time, He was slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8. So He viewed Christ already slain in Jn 8 24.

OT Prohecy had Him already slain for sins Isa 53:

All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way;
and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth:
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb,
so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment:
and who shall declare his generation?
for he was cut off out of the land of the living:
for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

I'm sticking to the facts of WHEN Jesus actually was crucified and not going into the realms of philosophy.