The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#381
#381
throughfaith said:
Christ’s life, not his death is what saves. (Rom. 5:10; 1 Cor. 15:17)
Sinner is saved by regeneration, not atonement. (Tit. 3:5)

Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement. (Rom. 3:23; 8:17-30)

When Christ said, “It is finished,” on the cross, everyone was still in their sins as per 1 Cor. 15:17.

Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)
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You should probably stop, you keep making your case worse

apart from atonement no one is saved, we are redeemed by the blood of the lamb, justified based on redemption. No one is born again, without the cross being applied to their debt. As the author of hebrews said, without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness

i can go on and on.
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#382
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#382
throughfaith said:
We are saved by his life not his death . If he did not rise then we would be all lost .
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Bro, I think it was you that mentioned problems with penal substitution model lately on the forums we discussed it on some thread here recently. I was not ready to hear it then, but I wanted to tell you that I hear now.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#383
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#383
eternally-gratefull said:
Then say it, say the cross alone did not save you or something to that affect

don’t just say the cross did not save you, that comment would be in error and could be very misleading to people, and when your trying to help someone see it your way, just puts you in a state of being unreliable. All because you left out a few words
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I keep hearing " I was saved by Jesus death " Which is not true .
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#384
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#384
eternally-gratefull said:
You should probably stop, you keep making your case worse

apart from atonement no one is saved, we are redeemed by the blood of the lamb, justified based on redemption. No one is born again, without the cross being applied to their debt. As the author of hebrews said, without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness

i can go on and on.
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Were you SAVED when Jesus died ? Yes or No ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#385
#385
throughfaith said:
I keep hearing " I was saved by Jesus death " Which is not true .
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Then tell him why it is not Jesus death alone which saved him like myself and a few others have been telling him, instead of telling him Jesus death did not save him, which is not true
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#386
#386
throughfaith said:
Were you SAVED when Jesus died ? Yes or No ?
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Was I saved without Jesus death? No

your argument has no bearing on when you were saved, your arguing his death had nothing to do with your salvation which is false, for your argument to work as time, you would need to say you were not saved when Jesus died, which you have said a few times, but right now and the post in question, your argument is Jesus death did not save you. which is not true

your in effect hurting our discussion with said person Or persons by not correcting your words to fit reality,
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#387
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#387
eternally-gratefull said:
Romans 1 says differently, thATS why they can not use the excuse they did not know on judgment day, because they know GOD HAS SHOWN IT TO THEM

these are your words


again, your God has the power, what kind of God is he who would let them suffer everlasting torment and not even give them a chance to be saved?
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You must rightly divide, if you want to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.

Romans 1, verse 18, Paul is not addressing unregenerate natural men, who cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. He is addressing regenerated people, verse 19, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it unto them. God is not manifest in the unregenerate man.

First of all, the unregenerate man does not believe that there is a spiritual God. Secondly, even if God had spoken spiritual things to the unregenerate he would not be able to discern them and would think them to be foolishness.

Verse 20, The only things that are made, as seen by the unregenerate, were not created by an invisible God, but have evolove.

Verse 21, Because that when they knew God. The unregenerate man does not believe in a spiritual God, to know him.

The rest of the chapter 1 paints a bad pitcher of just how depraved some regenerated children can be. That is why we cannot determine who the elect are and who the non-elect are, by their behaviour.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#388
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#388
eternally-gratefull said:
Was I saved without Jesus death? No

your argument has no bearing on when you were saved, your arguing his death had nothing to do with your salvation which is false, for your argument to work as time, you would need to say you were not saved when Jesus died, which you have said a few times, but right now and the post in question, your argument is Jesus death did not save you. which is not true

your in effect hurting our discussion with said person Or persons by not correcting your words to fit reality,
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Don't twist what I said . I already stated that we cannot be saved without his death . Again were you SAVED when Jesus died ? No is the answer . So you were not saved by his death . Simple . Now we figure out what saves , because a large portion of christians do not know what saves .
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#389
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#389
eternally-gratefull said:
Was I saved without Jesus death? No

your argument has no bearing on when you were saved, your arguing his death had nothing to do with your salvation which is false, for your argument to work as time, you would need to say you were not saved when Jesus died, which you have said a few times, but right now and the post in question, your argument is Jesus death did not save you. which is not true

your in effect hurting our discussion with said person Or persons by not correcting your words to fit reality,
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I don't think he sees your false "equation".
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#390
#390
ForestGreenCook said:
You must rightly divide, if you want to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.

Romans 1, verse 18, Paul is not addressing unregenerate natural men, who cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness. He is addressing regenerated people, verse 19, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it unto them. God is not manifest in the unregenerate man.

First of all, the unregenerate man does not believe that there is a spiritual God. Secondly, even if God had spoken spiritual things to the unregenerate he would not be able to discern them and would think them to be foolishness.

Verse 20, The only things that are made, as seen by the unregenerate, were not created by an invisible God, but have evolove.

Verse 21, Because that when they knew God. The unregenerate man does not believe in a spiritual God, to know him.

The rest of the chapter 1 paints a bad pitcher of just how depraved some regenerated children can be. That is why we cannot determine who the elect are and who the non-elect are, by their behaviour.
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Please get off your unregenerate man stuff

the HS comes to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment, he helps them to understand. he has to. or else there is no way a person can chose to receive gods gift, or continue to reject it.

God will not send people to eternal damnation, they send themselves there, because they have not believed, not because God decided to send them to hell just because (your view)

again, your own argument is your own issue, you said you believe God would not do it yet your belief states exactly what you state you do not believe

contradictory.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#391
#391
ForestGreenCook said:
I don't think he sees your false "equation".
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He does not see his own mistake, thats what it is

I have made no literal equation. so to say he does not believe something I have never really stated is like. Really??
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#393
Nov 21, 2020
6,474
592
113
#393
eternally-gratefull said:
Please get off your unregenerate man stuff

the HS comes to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment, he helps them to understand. he has to. or else there is no way a person can chose to receive gods gift, or continue to reject it.

God will not send people to eternal damnation, they send themselves there, because they have not believed, not because God decided to send them to hell just because (your view)

again, your own argument is your own issue, you said you believe God would not do it yet your belief states exactly what you state you do not believe

contradictory.
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Being unregenerate is important
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#394
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#394
throughfaith said:
Don't twist what I said . I already stated that we cannot be saved without his death . Again were you SAVED when Jesus died ? No is the answer . So you were not saved by his death . Simple . Now we figure out what saves , because a large portion of christians do not know what saves .
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Your problem may be in the fact that you do not understand the application of the Greek meaning of "saved"= delivered.

There is an eternal deliverance and there are many deliverances we receive as we sojourn here in this world.

If you apply all salvation scriptures to mean eternal salvation, they will uphold eternal salvation by our good works.

The good works of the regenerate man will result in him being saved (delivered) as he sojourns here in this world.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#396
#396
brightfame52 said:
Not to me. Do you want to discuss the points of the op?
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I have been

do you want to discuss them or only talk with people who agree with you? And if that’s the case, there seems to be really nothing to discuss
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#397
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
113
#397
eternally-gratefull said:
Not even sure how they can think this, what about all the unbelievers Who want to go to heaven. But follow religion instead of the gospel.

even religious churches who believe in Jesus but do not believe to the saving of the soul, because they have not repented from dead works. They still believe those works save them
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Yes, well, I did identify it as an illogical inconsistency ;):giggle:

We can hardly expect non-believers to be logical about these things, even though they believe themselves
superior in logic and rationality to Christians in general. It is just another one of their many inconsistencies.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#399
#399
Magenta said:
Yes, well, I did identify it as an illogical inconsistency ;):giggle:

We can hardly expect non-believers to be logical about these things, even though they believe themselves
superior in logic and rationality to Christians in general. It is just another one of their many inconsistencies.
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Yes, amen, I was agreeing with you, sorry if you took me different
 
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