Some things about the law that need explaining.

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ewq1938

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The point is that the Body of Christ becomes Israel.

Whether you call it replacement or some other term does not really matter.
Of course it matters. Joining is different than replacing. Very different.
 

ewq1938

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Yes, I realized many people are particularly sensitive to the word "replacement". ;)
Especially when no replacing is involved. Do you want your view to be called a form of RT?
 
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Especially when no replacing is involved. Do you want your view to be called a form of RT?
Alright, in this version, the Body of Christ has now become the nation Israel.

For my case, I keep the Body of Christ separate from the nation Israel.
 

ewq1938

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Alright, in this version, the Body of Christ has now become the nation Israel.
No, that's wrong.

Israel is the body of Christ. Gentiles that believe in Christ join that body.
Israel is the Church. Gentiles that believe in Christ join that Church.
Israel is the Bride of Christ. Gentiles that believe in Christ join that Bride.
 
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No, that's wrong.

Israel is the body of Christ. Gentiles that believe in Christ join that body.
Israel is the Church. Gentiles that believe in Christ join that Church.
Israel is the Bride of Christ. Gentiles that believe in Christ join that Bride.
You like to split hair.

Israel is equivalent to the Body of Christ in every way, according to your doctrine.
 

ewq1938

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You like to split hair.

Israel is equivalent to the Body of Christ in every way, according to your doctrine.
According to the bible. Don't you understand the gospel went to Israel first and the first disciples were Jewish? That was the beginning of the body of Christ, Jews of Israel. Gentiles did not join that body of Christ until later.

Your theology that Israel and the body of Christ are separate groups is non-biblical.
 

Yahshua

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Sep 22, 2013
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Yep, that is the "sophisticated" form of replacement theology I mentioned in this other thread here.

https://christianchat.com/threads/replacement-theology.195824/post-4417770

Its a very common view held by many Christians, so I can understand where you are coming from.
The Almighty has only covenanted with Israel.


Deuteronomy 32:8-9
When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

9 For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.



Amos 3:1-2
Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.



...But gentiles have always had an opportunity to be grafted into the commonwealth of Israel even before the NT...


Exodus 12:38 + 49
And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle...49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.


The Almighty doesn't change (Mal 6:3) and the Messiah is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb 13:8). When the natural branches sinned they went into punishment and it was the time for the gentiles to enter into the fold during natural branches' punishment...when punishment is over, Paul tells us in Romans 11 that the natural branches will be regathered into their fold.


John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
 
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The Almighty has only covenanted with Israel.
.
I don't disagree with that.

You have seen the exchange I had with posthuman, in this thread, where I disagree with him that the Body of Christ had a New Covenant with God right?
 
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According to the bible. Don't you understand the gospel went to Israel first and the first disciples were Jewish? That was the beginning of the body of Christ, Jews of Israel. Gentiles did not join that body of Christ until later.

Your theology that Israel and the body of Christ are separate groups is non-biblical.
The Body of Christ was a secret, a mystery that was hidden in God, only to be revealed to the apostle Paul later on (Ephesians 3:9).

So I could say yours is unbiblical as well, but then again, we are always the protagonist in our own minds.
 

Yahshua

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I don't disagree with that.

You have seen the exchange I had with posthuman, in this thread, where I disagree with him that the Body of Christ had a New Covenant with God right?
I skimmed it to get an idea of positions...

As I understand your position (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you don't agree that the BOC = Israel = BOC = Israel.
 

ewq1938

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The Body of Christ was a secret, a mystery that was hidden in God, only to be revealed to the apostle Paul later on (Ephesians 3:9).
That doesn't change that the first disciples were Jewish and were the first to form the body of Christ and that Gentiles joined the BOC later.
 
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I skimmed it to get an idea of positions...

As I understand your position (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you don't agree that the BOC = Israel = BOC = Israel.
The BOC was formed because the nation Israel has fallen (Romans 11:11)

The Body of Christ is not Israel because God is not done with the nation Israel yet.
 
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That doesn't change that the first disciples were Jewish and were the first to form the body of Christ and that Gentiles joined the BOC later.
The Body of Christ did not begin in Acts 2.

It was still all Israel then (Acts 1:6, Acts 3:26)
 
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The body of Christ began when the ministry of Christ began with the first disciples.
It came because of the cross, so that is impossible, unless you have a different definition of what BOC meant.
 

Yahshua

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The BOC was formed because the nation Israel has fallen (Romans 11:11)

The Body of Christ is not Israel because God is not done with the nation Israel yet.
The Body of Christ did not begin in Acts 2.

It was still all Israel then (Acts 1:6, Acts 3:26)
It may be more accurate to say the BOC is the house of Judah and not Israel? Israel and Judah are indeed separate houses that haven't been reunited (and won't be until Messiah returns), but the Jews began the Ephesus church...


Acts 18:19
19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

20 When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; 21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


Acts 18:24-26
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord


26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.


But to say the BOC is strictly a gentile work isn't supported by scripture.
 
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It may be more accurate to say the BOC is the house of Judah and not Israel? Israel and Judah are indeed separate houses that haven't been reunited (and won't be until Messiah returns), but the Jews began the Ephesus church...


Acts 18:19
19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

20 When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; 21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


Acts 18:24-26
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.


But to say the BOC is strictly a gentile work isn't supported by scripture.
The Body of Christ was a mystery revealed to Paul after Israel fell in Acts 7.

Since the nation Israel fell, all Jews and gentiles are now saved thru the body of Christ thru the gospel of the grace of God that was revealed to Paul.

So in that sense, it is not strictly gentiles. But then again, Israel was declared uncircumcised by the Holy Spirit in Acts 7:51, so in another sense, Jew and gentiles can be considered equally uncircumcised before salvation since Acts 7.
 

ewq1938

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1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1Co 12:24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
 
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1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1Co 12:24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Yes, so when was this revealed?