TONGUES false teaching.

[Scribe]

You are drawing conclusions from a paper that does not present any conclusions. Your opinion of the weakest hermeneutic is wrong and the canon of scripture is the most likely and indeed the only real conclusion that can be derived from the passage.

Tongues are husks and not meat. The more you feed on tongues the weaker you become.

Would you still be a Christian if you had no Pentecostal tongues. Would you believe in Christ and trust only in Christ if there were no Pentecostal tongues?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You did not read the paper did you? The conclusion is clear. The eschaton is intended. It is under the section called CONCLUSION (lol) page 66.

 

[SophieT]

Now would you please take the time to post where MY NAME is found in 1 Corinthian 14:34.

You are quick to dismiss and make persoal accusation but I must ask you why you do not do the very same thing to the Apostle Paul or to God Himself.

You say I am........" egregious and faithless rendering about women in general and tongues in particular, that, IMO, renders you one of many false teachers that parade across the internet with abandon, causing harm and leaving nothing of substance in your wake"

AND ALl I have done is post the written Word of God. Now what does that say about you????

Are YOU rejecting what is found in the Bible or are you just mad at me for posting it to you???

It is quite simply you that rejects scripture. Reading your op, it seems you are actually angry at women. It is not just women that will reject the nonsense you present, but men as well.

You have not written anything close to what the Bible says about the subject of tongues and it is obvious you have never actually studied the scriptures regarding women's activities in church. You dismiss the gifts of the Holy Spirit, again I don't care if you do, but you actually use your hatred of them, to display hostility towards women and try to hide behind scripture

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The word "GIFTS" in 1 Corinthians 12:1 is "ITALITIZED" in the KJV which means it was added for better understanding.

"added for better understanding"?

Men change

Concerning pneumatikōn [spiritual matters] I would not have you ignorant​

​

to

Concerning spiritual [gifts] I would not have you ignorant​

and you're okay with that?


And, technically, kinds of tongues (1 Cor 12:10) is not a "gift". According to 1 Cor 12:7, kinds of tongues is a manifestation (Greek phanerōsis) of the Spirit.

The Greek "pneumatikon" can be either masculine or neuter, referring to either MEN or to "GIFTS". The context is determinative. Here it is better understood as neuter denoting..."spiritual GIFTS" which is the seen in verse #4 and again in chapter #14:1.

In 1 Corinthians 12:4, the word "gifts" is properly included in the text:

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts (Greek charismatōn) ...​

In 1 Corinthians 14:1, the word "gifts" is again added by men:

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual (Greek pneumatika) ...​

When we change God's Word, do we then have God's Word???

"Not to be ignorant" is NOT about the context of chapters 12-14 as it is a common phrase used several times by Paul in his writings.

God tells us in 1 Cor 12:1 that He does not want us to be ignorant concerning spiritual matters. You want to change "spiritual matters" to "gifts" ... that's on you.

Have you ever studied those "several times" God gives instruction as to that which He does not want us to be ignorant? It's a good study.

Verse #4.........
"There are different GIFTS, but the same Spirit. "

1 Corinthians 12:4-6 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.


The gifts, the ministries, and the activities are diverse. But it is all the same Spirit, the same Lord, the same God doing the work through the gifts, the ministries, and the activities.

The Greek word for "diversities" in vs 4, "differences" in vs 5, and "diversities" in vs 6 is the same Greek word (diaireseis). So we have the same Greek word used in 3 consecutive verses and the translators (men) decided to translate the one Greek word as "diversities" in vss 4 and 6 and "differences" in vs 5.


Then in 1 Corinthians 12:7-10, we see the manifestation (phanerōsis) of the Spirit:

1 Corinthians 12:7-10 But the manifestation (Greek phanerōsis) of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues


Do you think God wants us to understand spiritual matters, such as the difference between "gifts" and "manifestation" ... that God does not want us to be ignorant concerning these pneumatikōn (spiritual matters)???

 

[SophieT]

It is interesting that you made a lot of personal comments about what you have experienced but you did not make ONE SINLE comment addressing the actual Scriptures on what God said about the issue of tongues.

1 Corinthians 13:8-10.......
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

Now the actual, real, literal Word of God as opposed to your experiences, says that there will come a day when PROPHECIES, TONGUES and KNOWLEDGE will cease.

Isn't that what the Bible says my brother???

The only real question then is WHEN.

Verse 10 says it will happen when the PERFECT comes.

The PERFECT can only be one of 3 things.

1. Jesus Christ.
2. Believers dieing and going to Heaven.
4. The Completed Word of God.

Now it can not possibly by #2. WHY???
Let us take another look at the verse whose phrase is in question: ......
“But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away” (1 Corinthians 13:10).

This verse says nothing about us going anywhere, but it does teach that something is coming to us. Something coming to us and us going somewhere are two completely different situations

Then for #1 and the Him being the PERFECT. The problem with that understanding is that the original Greek Grammar does not allow for it to be possible.

Now, to say “that which is perfect is come” is a person, is to support strange and awkward and IMPOSSIBLE grammar. The origianal Greek is NEUTER and that means the PERFECT in verse #10 has to be a FEMININE PRONOUN. Jesus Christ was a man = MASCULINE so the word is impossible to mean Jesus Christ.

Additionally, Do you actually think that Jesus Christ would be called “that which is perfect?” Do you think that Paul did not know Jesus and know His name or position.

The original Greek can ONLY refer to an INANTIMATE OBJECT , not a person. The phrase “that which is perfect is come” of 1 Corinthians 10:13 does not refer to Jesus Christ or His return.

That linguistically means that the PERFECT can only refer to the COMPLETED/MATURE Written Word of God.

Now, if you would like to discuss Bible truths instead of personal experiences then I am you daisy. But to debate personal experiences over what you belive you have happen happen to you is not advisable for either one of us.

I don't think the person can be found who would consider your posts truthful. This wasn't addressed to me, but you smartmouth everyone who points out your many errors. You might be a major in your own mind, but you are a minor when it comes to understanding the Bible.

I do believe I have never seen anyone as willfully wrong as you are and proud of it to boot.

 

[calibob]

Would you still be a Christian if you had no Pentecostal tongues. Would you believe in Christ and trust only in Christ if there were no Pentecostal tongues?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I don't speak in tongues but other manifestation of the Holy Spirit have occurred to me. I've been blessed with fore knowledge (Prophesy) spiritual discernment, dreams, word of knowledge. Several friends do speak in tongues and a couple have had visions. I'm not and never have been a member of the Pentecostal denomination either.

 

[SophieT]

Well since the context is about tongues, Paul was admonishing the women there to keep silent when men were speaking in tongues (and that too was limited to two or three).

In a broader context women are to keep silent within church meetings, and to refrain from preaching, teaching, or usurping authority over the church. This in no way limits the ministry of Christian women to other women (Christian and non-Christian), to children, and in material help or comfort to those in need. Mature Christian women are to be teachers and disciplers of the younger and immature women.

The Bible does not tell all women to keep silence. This, is something certain types of men wish it to say, but it does not say that at all.

Perhaps familiarize yourself with the New Testament in which is described the various ways women were heard from in the early church.

I think some men are so uncertain of their own faith, it really immobilizes them to hear from a woman that is passionate about their faith so they do not allow women in their church to say anything. It is a shameful practice.

The context was not about women speaking in tongues. That is error.

 

[SophieT]

For some reason, many people on this site seem to want to argue. I do not intend to do so. ALL I have doen is post what the Bible says.

How does your head fit through a door? What a patently arrogant thing to say and just as oblivious of the actual truth as you are of what scripture actually states.

You have posted nonsense and your own elevated opinion. It stinketh.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If you have attended as many Pentecostal church meetings as I have you will agree that what is seen in all of them is the habit of "SPEAKING" in Tongues.

It is a method of speaking in such a way that no one understands what is said.
No one interprets what is muttered.
Women it seems are the ones who do most of the "Tongues" noises.

Now, allow me to say that I have been there and done that. However as I grew older and actually READ what the Bible says it becmae very clear that what is seen today is NOT BIBLICAL tongues as recorded in the Bible.

So then, instead of just accepting what we have been told or doing what we WANT to do, shall we actually see what the Bible does it fact say??????

Acts 2:7-11............

"And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." ​

Notice the phrase in Acts 2:11, "our tongues." The crowds heard the Apostles preach in their own native tongues, not some unknown heavenly jibber jabber. There was NEVER any heavenly languages spoken that no one understood and required an interpreter.

There is a drastic difference between Biblical tongues and the heretical speaking in tongues we see in churches today.

The "speaking in tongues" which the Pentecostals foolishly practice are UNKNOWN tongues, not anything found on earth. Supposedly, those unknown tongues can only be interpreted by ONE spirit-filled member of the congregation.

The Apostle Paul speaks common sense to us Corinthians 14:19...
"Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."

Now before replying to this post from an "Emotional" response, and actually that is what speaking in tongues is, an EMOTIONAL event, take the time to do the work first.

Read 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14. Anyone can see that they are "Corrective" Chapters from Paul to the church and the CONTEXT is .....ready.....
Speaking in tongues".

Now that being the correct hermeneutical point then notice carefully chapter 14:34........
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. "

Literally....the CONTEXT demands that "women are not permitted to speak in TONGUES in church".

Without women speaking in tongues there is then in fact no tongues movement at all.

I would also add what Paul said regarding the gifts of the Spirit:

"Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in languages? Do all interpret? "

Each of those infers a NO answer. Therefore, not everyone has the gift of speaking in languages/tongues.

These churches that teach that speaking in tongues as the definitive proof that one has the Spirit and are therefore saved, this then creates a church full of people who speak in false tongues and that because it is a prerequisite. So, everyone speaks in, for a lack of a better word, pretend tongues, in order to be apart of the group. The problem is, that it could destroy the faith of new believers if they don't speak in tongues.

Personally, I don't believe that the Spirit gives the gift of tongues today.

 

[calibob]

Well since the context is about tongues, Paul was admonishing the women there to keep silent when men were speaking in tongues (and that too was limited to two or three).

In a broader context women are to keep silent within church meetings, and to refrain from preaching, teaching, or usurping authority over the church. This in no way limits the ministry of Christian women to other women (Christian and non-Christian), to children, and in material help or comfort to those in need. Mature Christian women are to be teachers and disciplers of the younger and immature women.

You misunderstand much young man!

Q) What was the first mission that anyone was sent on after the resurrection? Who was sent twice?
A) Mark 16:1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so they could go and anoint the body of Jesus. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they went to the tomb. 3They were asking one another, “Who will roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb?” 4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, even though it was extremely large. 5 When they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed. 6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here! See the place where they put Him. 7 But go, tell His disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see Him, just as He told you.’” 8 So the women left the tomb and ran away, trembling and bewildered. And in their fear they did not say a word to anyone. Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene (John 20:10–18) 9 Early on the first day of the week, after Jesus had risen, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had driven out seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with Him, who were mourning and weeping. 11 And when they heard that Jesus was alive and she had seen Him, they did not believe it. BSB

 

[Scribe]

Tongues are husks and not meat. The more you feed on tongues the weaker you become.

Would you still be a Christian if you had no Pentecostal tongues. Would you believe in Christ and trust only in Christ if there were no Pentecostal tongues?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1) I would never speak disparagingly about the Holy Spirit gift of tongues. Not a good idea. Find some humility.
2) I don't ask myself how I can live the Christian life without the Holy Spirit gifts. I am sola scriptura so I embrace what the scriptures teach and receive the gifts God gives. I praise God for them and operate in them rather than wish that He had not done it that way.
No one said tongues was a salvation issue but that gives no one the right to deprecate the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They are after all called the gifts of the Spirit for a reason. It is for us to agree with God and His method of doing things not to imagine another way.

 

[calibob]

In the times in which the Epistles were written society was quite different. It was considered rude and offensive for a woman to speak in church or anywhere else if there were men present to speak for them. Look into the women in the book of Judges. They acted shy but they weren't.

And we find from Church history that the primitive Christians thus understood it; for that women did actually speak and preach amongst them we have indisputable proof.

If Christ cannot supersede the Law, then I am lost, and lost forever.
Catherine Booth

 

[Scribe]

I would also add what Paul said regarding the gifts of the Spirit:

"Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in languages? Do all interpret? "

Each of those infers a NO answer. Therefore, not everyone has the gift of speaking in languages/tongues.

Except the 120 all spoke in tongues, the 12 Ephesus disciples all spoke in tongues, all the house of Cornelius spoke in tongues. So there is that. In the light of the fact that they all spoke in tongues in the upper room it is most likely that Paul is meaning that in the assembling of the church when the Gifts are manifested for mutual edification not everyone is going to operate in tongues and interpretation which of course matches what he says in the whole 12-14 chapters becuase he goes on to explain how to do it in order one at a time.

These churches that teach that speaking in tongues as the definitive proof that one has the Spirit and are therefore saved,

The only church that teaches that speaking in tongues means your saved or anything close to that is the United Pentecostal Church in Christ. A Oneness denomination that also teaches that you must be baptized in the Name of Jesus in water and if you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost you have to do it over again. They do not represent the doctrines of all the other Pentecostal believers and it is unfortunate that they use the name Pentecostal in their denominational name because it confuses people who think that this is what Pentecostals believe and it is not.
Almost all other Pentecostals such as the Assemblies of God and many nondenominational churches believe that speaking in tongues is available for all believers but not required for salvation. They teach that the Holy Spirit is given when one is born again. They teach that there is an Empowering of the Holy Spirit to be a witness and with it comes the gift of tongues freely available to all saints.

his then creates a church full of people who speak in false tongues and that because it is a prerequisite. So, everyone speaks in, for a lack of a better word, pretend tongues, in order to be apart of the group. The problem is, that it could destroy the faith of new believers if they don't speak in tongues.

That does not happen in the normal Pentecostal churches. They actually receive the empowering of the Holy Spirit because they desire it and they ask in faith, and they speak in tongues because they ask for it in faith and receive it. They believe they are already saved and do not need anything to make them more saved or more of a christian but they want the power of the Holy Spirit to minister in the power of the Holy Spirit in accordance with what they read about in the book of Acts. They say "God you did it for them and I believe you will do it for me" And in accordance with many other scriptures God likes it when we pray in faith like that and he will split oceans, move mountains, and yes, give us the gift of tongues, when we ask in faith like that. You can't fake real tongues. So that is not even an issue. It is really happening just like the book of Acts. If we just follow the book of Acts we really can't mess it up. All it takes is surrender and faith.

Personally, I don't believe that the Spirit gives the gift of tongues today.

And that is why you have the understandings about it that you have. It is not a salvation issue.

However one does not have to discount it as a reality just because one has not received it or does not believe it is necessary. This should not require one to think "If it is available, and I don't have it, I am therefore less spiritual or less of a Christian than someone who has it" It simply means that they have not yet discovered it as available for them, and this will take reading the book of Acts several times. Reading the book of Acts will spark the desire and the expectation. This idea that those who have the gift of tongues are saying that they are an elite group is not logical.

If I pray an hour a day for the Lord to anoint me with the Holy Spirit and use me in ministry do you think that He would do it?
What if another brother never prays, do you think it is possible that his ministry might be less effective?

We believe that things happen when we pray and that a praying preacher will be more effective in the pulpit than a non praying preacher right? Are we calling that praying preacher an elitist, are we saying that he is a better Christian or a more saved? Of course not, we are just saying that God has ordained that we pray to be more effective ministers by the empowering of the Holy Spirit.

Now when we ask the Lord to fill us with the Holy Spirit as we read about in the book of Acts and give us the gifts we read about and he does so we don't think we are better than those who DO NOT ask and receive them. But we rejoice that these gifts are made available for the asking and we do not want to minister without them. We recognize that God's methods are better than ours and if he has given the gift of tongues and interpretation of tongues He knows what he is doing and we just go with it in agreement and faith and enjoy the blessings.

It does not make us a better Christian, it does not make us more saved, it makes us recipients of the gifts God has given the church for edification. And therefore makes us more effective in the ministry having been endued with power from on high to be witnesses in our communities, and the uttermost parts of the earth. This is the reason for Pentecost. He said go into all the world and preach the Gospel but then he said WAIT until you be endued with power from on high then GO...

When people in your church see this phenomenon they do not say "My faith is destroyed" they say "Look, just like in the book of Acts" and their faith is encouraged.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Except the 120 all spoke in tongues, the 12 Ephesus disciples all spoke in tongues, all the house of Cornelius spoke in tongues. So there is that. In the light of the fact that they all spoke in tongues in the upper room it is most likely that Paul is meaning that in the assembling of the church when the Gifts are manifested for mutual edification not everyone is going to operate in tongues and interpretation which of course matches what he says in the whole 12-14 chapters becuase he goes on to explain how to do it in order one at a time.

Hi Scribe!

I was referring to now. The gift of languages was still active during the time of the apostles and the early church. But that is not the case now.

The only church that teaches that speaking in tongues means your saved or anything close to that is the United Pentecostal Church in Christ.

Does it matter? If it is happening in just one church, what I said is still true and that is who I was referring to. The point is that they are just babbling by their own doing. It is not something that the Spirit is causing.

 

[Scribe]

Hi Scribe!

I was referring to now. The gift of languages was still active during the time of the apostles and the early church. But that is not the case now.



Does it matter? If it is happening in just one church, what I said is still true and that is who I was referring to. The point is that they are just babbling by their own doing. It is not something that the Spirit is causing.

It matters because this is not what people who speak in tongues believe. They don't believe it means you are saved. There are hundreds of millions of pentecostals that speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance and do not teach that you have to speak in tongues to be saved. The UPCIC is an extreme cult like group that should not be used to define what those churches who speak in tongues teach. It is like using the JW to explain what Baptists believe.

 

[JaumeJ]

He also said in 1 Corth. 13 that "TONGUES would CEASE".

Tongues will cease when the prophecy of Zephaniah is fulfilled, that being that our Father will return to us a pure tongue so that all may call upon Him with one Name.

Until that is fulfilled, tongues will not cease, however when that prophecy is fulfilled, tongues will cease.

Because all who believe Jesus-Yeshua in this age have the spirit of prophecy, Revelation, it too will not cease until He returns.

 

[Kolistus]

That's like asking a plumber advice on your ac.

He is cessationist.

All cessationists are speculators.

Baptism in the Holy Spirit is first.
Ssd peaking inbtongues wells up from that massive invasion of the Spirit.
It is a flow that is heaven touching heaven.


The one that spoke in tongues more than anyone else wrote half the NT.

He got the baptism in the Holy Spirit first.

The upper room.

Jesus- "dont even think of doing anything till you get the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Press in and get b 4 you do anything"

Yes sir
I did
Thank you for that wonderful order.
I will never forget it.

THANK YOU JESUS !!!!!!!!!

I often think of how many churches today would reject Paul for what he preached. That and he was single, single people are usually looked down upon

 

[Moses_Young]

I sometimes wonder if I "let myself go" maybe I could speak tongues, but I can be a shy person so I don't know if that's stopping me from speaking tongues.

These people don't know the difference. I was with some of these sorts once, and started babbling, to see if they'd know the difference. "You're doing it!" they cried excitedly, "you're speaking in tongues".

"No, I'm not, I'm just babbling", I replied. "There is no meaning in the words, and it's something I've been able to do since a child. I just never had need as the words have no meaning". They just ignored me and told everyone around and each other that I could speak in tongues, and hence, had received the Holy Spirit. This was something I had debated them on for a long time (i.e. speaking in tongues is indepedent and separate from receiving the Holy Spirit), and continued to do so afterward until, having exposed the charade in my mind for what it was, I divorced myself from their cult.

 

[notuptome]

You did not read the paper did you? The conclusion is clear. The eschaton is intended. It is under the section called CONCLUSION (lol) page 66.

When you cut through all the smoke you see that the conclusion was not reached but only confirmed.

The source is hardly recognized as a solid fundamental doctrinal institution.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

1) I would never speak disparagingly about the Holy Spirit gift of tongues. Not a good idea. Find some humility.
2) I don't ask myself how I can live the Christian life without the Holy Spirit gifts. I am sola scriptura so I embrace what the scriptures teach and receive the gifts God gives. I praise God for them and operate in them rather than wish that He had not done it that way.
No one said tongues was a salvation issue but that gives no one the right to deprecate the gifts of the Holy Spirit. They are after all called the gifts of the Spirit for a reason. It is for us to agree with God and His method of doing things not to imagine another way.

What you claim is not found in scripture and the Holy Spirit does not work outside of scripture.

Only three gifts ended in the apostolic era. All the gifts of the Holy Spirit other than the three certainly are present in the true genuine body of Christ.

You really must consider that the majority of what calls itself Christian is not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Sipsey]

It seems to me that a study from Genesis to Revelation is required for the simple meaning of the word tongues. Beginning in Genesis, till the Tower of Babel, mankind spoke one language. As a punishment, other tongues were created, by God.

Often God warned the Jews that they would incur suffering for their disobedience by people with another tongue. Then Isaiah gives a prophesy, “For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.”

At Pentecost the Jews from other lands heard evangelizing, in their own tongue.

Tongues were a result of disobedience and then used to evangelize a stubborn people.

They were a warning then and I see them as a warning now. If any doctrine is viewed with blinders, one can make it out to be anything they want, including tongues.