Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I wish we would just call it what it is. The resurrection. Rapture is a magnificent & most welcome side-effect of resurrection. Our failing bodies are on their way to death. We escape that if we are still alive at his coming. I don't see any talk of pre/post anything in the Bible. I see a glorious revealing of us in him & the resurrection of our bodies (dead or still living) at his return.
Rapture is fine as a descriptive term for those whose mortal bodies cling to biological life at his return.
But using it as a replacement term for the the resurrection every time we speak of it isn't necessary.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@Lucy-Pevensie , the words [for] "Rapture" and "Resurrection" mean two entirely distinct things (they are not the same thing):

--"resurrection" means "to stand again [on the earth]"

--"rapture" means "caught up/-away / snatch" (and for us, that is, "to the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR")





[Daniel, for example (as well as all OT saints), will be "resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth]"... and was/were not promised "rapture [IN THE AIR]," which pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" (ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]"; Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]


So... when Paul had said (1Cor15:51-54), "Behold, I shew you A MYSTERY... THIS mortal... and THIS corruptible...," he was speaking specifically of "the Church which is His body" (to whom "Rapture" SOLELY pertains [NOT to all other saints of all OTHER time periods; not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints]): both "the DEAD *IN* Christ" and the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" aspects OF that "ONE BODY" (who shall be "caught up TOGETHER" [i.e. "AS ONE"] at the time of "our Rapture/THE Departure/our episynagoges UNTO HIM" [that is, "IN THE AIR"], and "so shall *we* ever be WITH [G4862 - UNION-with] the Lord" [a distinct "with" word from, say, the "5 virginS [PLURAL]" who will go with [/accompanying] Him into the wedding FEAST/SUPPER / earthly MK age [without ever having "lifted off" the earth, and whom He is NOT coming to "MARRY"])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

...again, Eph1:10 is not speaking of "[in] this present age," as the rest of the epistle is...



And "rapture" ≠ "resurrection"

... they are distinct things.

 

[ewq1938]

See,that is what I am talking about.

postrib adherents take verses (which are indeed pretrib rapture verses) isolate them and think they have proven a postrib rapture.

you can not find truth through reframing verses.

Nothing was "reframed". Paul places rapture after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and that only happens at the second coming and the coming happens after the GT so the rapture is placed post-trib. There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

 

[ewq1938]

I wish we would just call it what it is. The resurrection. Rapture is a magnificent & most welcome side-effect of resurrection.

As another has said, the resurrection and rapture are two different events that happen closely but are separate. means to come back to life after having been dead. Rapture/harpazo means to be moved physically from one place to another.

 

[TheWaytoGo]

Repeating yourself has not made you any converts. You should move on to something else now. Making this your ministry exposes you as building on the wrong foundation thus ... wood, hay and stubble. You will find out one day it was a waste of your time.
Get passionate about teaching what will make Christ more known. This path you're own does not accomplish that. It is just divisive and drives a wedge of animosity between you and your brothers who believe their interpretations are as valid as yours.

You're not serving the cause of Christ with this sort of intolerance to different interpretations of eschatology.

Saw a portion of one of this Richardson character's videos promoting and protecting Bill Gates. Isn't he a former comedian?

 

[Absolutely]

Nothing was "reframed". Paul places rapture after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and that only happens at the second coming and the coming happens after the GT so the rapture is placed post-trib. There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

You do realize EVERY RAPTURE VERSE has zero white horses????
take a look at this verse.

rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Now...YOU CAN EITHER ACCEPT the written word,or you can reframe it to fit white horses.

Take a look here;
acts 1 ;9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

OOOOOPS ...the Holy Spirit was mistaken again.

Jesus returns on a white horse with thousands of white horses.

Postrib rapture adherents can not help you on those items.
Nor can they help you on the bride /groom dynamic.

(trust me,they will not go there)

 

[ewq1938]

You do realize EVERY RAPTURE VERSE has zero white horses????

That's good because white horses have nothing to do with the rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

Nothing was "reframed". Paul places rapture after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and that only happens at the second coming and the coming happens after the GT so the rapture is placed post-trib. There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

Jesus uses Lot and Noah.

he frames his coming as "BEFORE THE FLOOD"

postribs reframe that or ignore it.

they are unaware that they need that to read "after the flood noah was ushered into the ark and the door was shut"
then this reframing : after sodom was destroyed,lot was removed.
..but it gets better! you guys have lot RETURNING TO SODOM IMMEDIATELY AFTER IT IS DESTROYED (remember you guys have the church raptured in to the sky then immediately returning to earth on white horses)

(which is the make believe uturn,that was literally made up and added)

 

[Absolutely]

That's good because white horses have nothing to do with the rapture.

LOL postribs have the rapture directly onto white horses.

You are unaware that Jesus returns at the 2nd coming on a white horse with millions of white horse riders????

You inadvertantly painted yourself into a corner huh?

 

[Absolutely]

I wish we would just call it what it is. The resurrection. Rapture is a magnificent & most welcome side-effect of resurrection. Our failing bodies are on their way to death. We escape that if we are still alive at his coming. I don't see any talk of pre/post anything in the Bible. I see a glorious revealing of us in him & the resurrection of our bodies (dead or still living) at his return.
Rapture is fine as a descriptive term for those whose mortal bodies cling to biological life at his return.
But using it as a replacement term for the the resurrection every time we speak of it isn't necessary.

one can be resurrected but never "taken up to heaven"

 

[Absolutely]

Nothing was "reframed". Paul places rapture after the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and that only happens at the second coming and the coming happens after the GT so the rapture is placed post-trib. There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

BTW
check out your postrib teachers.

find one that does not ignore Jesus specific words "BEFORE THE FLOOD" in mat 24.

 

[ewq1938]

LOL postribs have the rapture directly onto white horses.

You are unaware that Jesus returns at the 2nd coming on a white horse with millions of white horse riders????

You inadvertantly painted yourself into a corner huh?

The rapture is over by the time any white horses are seen in Rev19.

 

[ewq1938]

BTW
check out your postrib teachers.

Paul is my only post trib teacher since he placed rapture after GT has ended.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Paul is my only post trib teacher since he placed rapture after GT has ended.

Paul taught no such thing! Paul taught the gathering of the church first, then the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath.

By teaching that the church is present on the earth during the time of God's wrath, you do away with the fact that Jesus took upon himself God's wrath, satisfying it completely. Because of this, the wrath of God no long rests upon believers.

You people who believe that the Lord is going to put His church through the time of God's wrath, need to do a deep study on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. For those who endure patiently, Jesus said that He would keep out [out of] the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole inhabited world. We are kept out of that time period, not through it or in it, but kept out of. If the church were to be gathered after the great tribulation, it would put the church through the entire wrath of God, right along with the wicked.

God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. And since the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect the entire earth, then the church cannot be here during that time, because what is coming will be God's direct wrath, which believers are not appointed to suffer. Believers in Christ have been credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God.

You and others need to understand the purpose of the Day of the Lord and who it is against. Because it certainly isn't against the Lord's bride. You also need to understand that there is a difference between the trials and persecutions that Jesus said we would have as a result of our faith vs. God's coming wrath.

Regarding the rapture being placed after the great tribulation, if you are speaking about those who John sees come to life in Rev.20:4-6, those are the great tribulation saints who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17. This group is not the church, but are those who become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. The resurrection has phases/stages to it:

* Christ the first fruits

* The church (then, when he comes, those who belong to him)

* The Male Child/144,000 (changed and caught up)

* The two witnesses

* The great tribulation saints

All of the above are apart of the first resurrection. Just fyi, 'first' does not mean 'only.' The first resurrection refers to all resurrections which take place prior to the resurrection which takes place at the end of the thousand years.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul taught no such thing! Paul taught the gathering of the church first, then the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath.

Paul didn't teach that. Look for yourself:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This is the rapture and it happens after the second coming of Christ which only happens once the great tribulation has ended. The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul in verse 17.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Paul didn't teach that. Look for yourself:

I already have been for over 45 years.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The scripture above says nothing about the gathering taking place after the GT. Those who have died in Christ, He will bring from heaven their spirits when He comes and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies.

Context is the second coming.

No, the context is the event of the gathering of the church. The church cannot and will not go through God's wrath.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

All of the above is regarding the gathering of the church, not the second coming.

You and others need to understand that the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, are two separate events, with different purposes.


This is the rapture and it happens after the second coming of Christ which only happens once the great tribulation has ended. The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul in verse 17.

All of the scriptures above describe the details of the event of the church being gathered. It does not support this event as taking place after God's wrath.

 

[ewq1938]

I already have been for over 45 years.



The scripture above says nothing about the gathering taking place after the GT. Those who have died in Christ, He will bring from heaven their spirits when He comes and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies.



No, the context is the event of the gathering of the church. The church cannot and will not go through God's wrath.



All of the scriptures above describe the details of the event of the church being gathered. It does not support this event as taking place after God's wrath.

The scriptures posted prove rapture comes after the resurrection of dead in Christ and after the second coming and the second coming comes at 7th trump which means great trib ended. rapture is after or post trib. Pre-trib simply isn't scriptural and is not where Paul placed the rapture.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

You do realize EVERY RAPTURE VERSE has zero white horses????
take a look at this verse.

rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Now...YOU CAN EITHER ACCEPT the written word,or you can reframe it to fit white horses.

Take a look here;
acts 1 ;9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

OOOOOPS ...the Holy Spirit was mistaken again.

Jesus returns on a white horse with thousands of white horses.

Postrib rapture adherents can not help you on those items.
Nor can they help you on the bride /groom dynamic.

(trust me,they will not go there)

I agree, in references to Jesus return he comes in the clouds. Just as he appeared to Moses & Israel. In a pillar of cloud.
The white horse is likely referring to something else. He is going out girt with a sword. Invitation to the wedding super takes place then. It's all after the tribulation.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Paul taught no such thing! Paul taught the gathering of the church first, then the Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath.

Paul did not teach the gathering of the church first.

2 Thess 2:1

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: "


"concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: "

The Apostle is telling you that the gathering is at the COMING OF OUR LORD.
Not 7 years or any time before. We await one return.