Some things about the law that need explaining.

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TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#201
Mar 21, 2015
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Australia
#201
the 1000 years doesn't matter if you are part of the flock under the shepherds care. Today is what matters, and making sure you are part of the flock.
Do you think the free gift of salvation promised to us is conditional?
Mat_19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Job_36:12 But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.

Mat_6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Rom_8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom_8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#202
Jan 12, 2019
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#202
John146 said:
Are you equating the word testimony with testament? And what are we even debating? Lol

Are you trying to tie the body of Christ to Israel? Have we replaced Israel and the covenant God made specifically to them?
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I realized now that he subscribed to replacement theology.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#203
Jul 31, 2013
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#203
Guojing said:
I have no idea how you arrived to that conclusion, from "it will be silly to conclude that "both must therefore mean the same thing".
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because sozo means sozo, just like diatheke means diatheke. if you think sozo can't mean sozo just because we talk about being saved from damnation with the same abstract expression 'save' that we do when we talk about our flesh surviving some illness or injury, well i mean you're obviously wrong. so your conclusion that salvation from anything must equal salvation from all things puts you squarely in some kind of prosperity-laden, heretical riches-and-health-on-earth-equals-the-gospel-of Christ camp when you finally admit that a diatheke is a diatheke -- which is something you will do one day, because it's the truth, and it is inescapable.

i don't think you should be so dumb. clearly when we say we crossed a field it is not the same thing as saying we have crossed from death to life, but the word "crossed" doesn't have a different meaning just because we use it to describe different things that are crossed.

Guojing said:
Both are saved thru Christ
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and no other way. therefore ((back to what we are actually talking about, away from empty arguing about words)) seeing that Christ cannot be crucified again, the covenant of His body and blood is the same covenant that saved the Jew and the Gentile. this is exactly the covenant that Hosea 2, Zechariah 4, Genesis 15, Jeremiah 31, Hebrews 8-9, Galatians 4, 2 Corinthians 3, Romans 11 speak of.
because what does scripture say? speaking to Gentiles, the Spirit of God says "through your mercy they also may obtain mercy"

there is no, 'other way' for Jews to be reconciled to God; righteousness cannot come through the law - the law itself being a testament to that fact, with its daily sacrifices, and if it were not so, then Christ died for nothing. He is not crucified a second time and He must be crucified once, and then risen. there is no other way - from the foundation of the world.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#205
Jan 12, 2019
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#205
posthuman said:
not at all.

the truth does not fit in one of your neat little man-made boxes
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If you agree the Body of Christ has not replaced Israel, why do you insist that the New Covenant, that was explicitly stated to be cut with Israel in Hebrews 8:8, is also cut with us?
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

Well-known member
#206
Oct 18, 2018
5,007
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#206
Guojing said:
If you agree the Body of Christ has not replaced Israel
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The church began with Jews/Israel. The church has always been true Israel in Christ from it's beginning and continues to be that way today but with the inclusion of gentiles into this church. It is the same with the concept of the bride of Christ and the body of Christ. The bride and body started with Jews/Israel. Gentiles that accept Christ are grafted into these concepts and become part of the Church, part of the bride, part of the body and part of the great olive tree which has many of the natural Jewish branches since the ministry of Christ and beyond.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#207
Jan 12, 2019
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#207
ewq1938 said:
The church began with Jews/Israel. The church has always been true Israel in Christ from it's beginning and continues to be that way today but with the inclusion of gentiles into this church. It is the same with the concept of the bride of Christ and the body of Christ. The bride and body started with Jews/Israel. Gentiles that accept Christ are grafted into these concepts and become part of the Church, part of the bride, part of the body and part of the great olive tree which has many of the natural Jewish branches since the ministry of Christ and beyond.
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Yep, this is the sophisticated form of RT I have mentioned before here

https://christianchat.com/threads/replacement-theology.195824/post-4417770
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

Well-known member
#208
Oct 18, 2018
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#208
Guojing said:
Yep, this is the sophisticated form of RT I have mentioned before here
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That is false. There was no expression RT at all. RT does not exist. Gentiles JOIN the body of Christ, the Church, the bride, the Olive tree not replace anyone. Replacement is a fallacy and false accusation.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#209
Jan 12, 2019
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#209
ewq1938 said:
That is false. There was no expression RT at all. RT does not exist. Gentiles JOIN the body of Christ, the Church, the bride, the Olive tree not replace anyone. Replacement is a fallacy and false accusation.
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You are stating what I stated in that post.
 
ewq1938

ewq1938

Well-known member
#210
Oct 18, 2018
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#210
Guojing said:
You are stating what I stated in that post.
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You apparently do not understand what RT is and is not so you accuse people of promoting RT when they do not. No Jew can be replaced. It's literally impossible. Believing Jews REMAIN on Olive tree, unbelieving Jews are removed. Gentiles who believe JOIN that tree as a grafted branch, and Gentiles that do not believe are not grafted. Removed branches that find faith will be returned (no one is there in their place because that is impossible).
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#211
Jan 12, 2019
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#211
ewq1938 said:
You apparently do not understand what RT is and is not so you accuse people of promoting RT when they do not. No Jew can be replaced. It's literally impossible. Believing Jews REMAIN on Olive tree, unbelieving Jews are removed. Gentiles who believe JOIN that tree as a grafted branch, and Gentiles that do not believe are not grafted. Removed branches that find faith will be returned (no one is there in their place because that is impossible).
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Yes, as I said, that was what I state in the link I provided you.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#212
Jul 31, 2013
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#212
Guojing said:
If you agree the Body of Christ has not replaced Israel, why do you insist that the New Covenant, that was explicitly stated to be cut with Israel in Hebrews 8:8, is also cut with us?
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with whom is the covenant of Hosea 2?
with whom is the covenant of Genesis 9?
which peoples receive the blessing of the diatheke sealed in Genesis 15?
in Acts 2 when Peter says that Shavuot is Joel 2, is it a different Spirit poured out in Acts 10? in Romans 10 Paul says this promise of Joel 2, that whosoever calls on the name of the LORD will receive sozo, is for "both Jew and Greek"
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#213
Jan 12, 2019
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#213
posthuman said:
with whom is the covenant of Hosea 2?
with whom is the covenant of Genesis 9?
which peoples receive the blessing of the diatheke sealed in Genesis 15?
in Acts 2 when Peter says that Shavuot is Joel 2, is it a different Spirit poured out in Acts 10? in Romans 10 Paul says this promise of Joel 2, that whosoever calls on the name of the LORD will receive sozo, is for "both Jew and Greek"
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The new covenant is with Israel, as stated in Hebrews 8:8

No need to change the topic
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#215
Jul 31, 2013
37,788
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#215
Guojing said:
The new covenant is with Israel, as stated in Hebrews 8:8

No need to change the topic
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it's the same topic, and you asked for a reply.
when the bus driver says, 'i will take you to your destination' it doesn't mean you will be the only one on the bus.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#216
Jul 31, 2013
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#216
@Guojing

For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.​
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.​
(Romans 11:27-32)​

the new covenant with Israel is the mercy that comes to them through the mercy given to the Gentile.
the new covenant is when He takes away their sin. the sin of unbelief; the same for which they did not enter His rest.
what, you think there will be another Christ who will be crucified especially for them? maybe a Jewish one this time? o_O

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
(Romans 11:23)
​
grafted into what, through what? into that very same new covenant of His blood with which He brought us in.
no other Jesus; no other gospel; no other baptism, no other sozo -- no other name under heaven
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#218
#218
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#219
#219
Guojing said:
So you also think the New Covenant is cut with us too?

Alright then.
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The new covenant is the cross

the fact you think it does not affect us is troublesome
 
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