Livable wage

[DWR]

There is a lot of talk about a livable wage.
What is your definition of a livable wage?
If some one makes enough for food , shelter, and clothing, is that a livable wage?
What would you add to that list as being necessary and not what some one might want?
Minimum wage in my state goes to $11 per hour on January first. That will easily pay for necessary food, shelter, and clothing, with some left for wants.

 

[Genipher]

Depends on your state and your family size. Might also depend on your health and how much meds you have to pay for every month.
Personally, $11 an hour wouldn't be a liveable wage for my family of 10.

Food, bills, house, clothes, and extra to fix things or allow the kids to take extracurricular classes. Though the latter isn't necessarily necessary. It would also be nice to have enough for charity.

 

[Desdichado]

It's a moving target. Sometimes, I don't think people talk with their family members or look to recent history.


My mother was born in the early 1960's. My grandmother was 23. My grandfather was 25 and the soul provider. He had a white-collar job in a competitive field at the time. Mom only recalls eating spam the first few years of her life (after being weaned off milk and formula of course).

Grandma grew up in the 1940's. She lived in a four-bedroom house with seven brothers and sisters. Up until her late teens, the only protein had was what grandpa managed to kill at the start of winter. As farmers, the livestock they raised was utilized for commercial purposes. This family practice preceded the Great Depression.

Richard Nixon was born to what was considered a middle-class family at the time (1913). He only ate cornmeal the first seven or so years of his life.

About twelve years ago, my great aunt had a very old woman over for the holidays. This lady had no surviving relatives nearby. She recalls drinking only the water from her well the first seventeen years of her life.


I won't elaborate anymore in this post. Draw your own conclusions.

There is a lot of talk about a livable wage.
What is your definition of a livable wage?
If some one makes enough for food , shelter, and clothing, is that a livable wage?
What would you add to that list as being necessary and not what some one might want?
Minimum wage in my state goes to $11 per hour on January first. That will easily pay for necessary food, shelter, and clothing, with some left for wants.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

There is a lot of talk about a livable wage.
What is your definition of a livable wage?
If some one makes enough for food , shelter, and clothing, is that a livable wage?
What would you add to that list as being necessary and not what some one might want?
Minimum wage in my state goes to $11 per hour on January first. That will easily pay for necessary food, shelter, and clothing, with some left for wants.

I think $11/hour is ok if you are single and rent with a roommate (or spouse), but NO kids. It really depends on housing costs/location, and whether you have kids/size of family. So, while $11/hour might be a living wage for a single person, it will not be for a large family.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What is your definition of a livable wage?

It is called a "living wage" which means that your income allows you to live and pay for the bare necessities above the poverty level.

"In 2020, the Department of Health and Human Services set the federal poverty level at $26,200 for a family of four.

That's equivalent to about $12.60 per hour for a full-time worker. A living wage must at least be greater than the poverty level..."

 

[theLastEndWatcher]

Depends on your state and your family size. Might also depend on your health and how much meds you have to pay for every month.
Personally, $11 an hour wouldn't be a liveable wage for my family of 10.

Food, bills, house, clothes, and extra to fix things or allow the kids to take extracurricular classes. Though the latter isn't necessarily necessary. It would also be nice to have enough for charity.

Considering I can get a gallon jug of water for $3 that will last me a few days easy, up to a week....
And that I can get enough food at McDonald's (yeah I know not healthy but it's still food) for a day for $10 and eat very well? (2 burgers, 2 fries, and 20 pieces of chicken nuggets).
And that's not being frugal with groceries. If you work 8 hours at $10 an hour, even with taxes factored in at 20% an hour and a half should easily pay for your food.
Then again if you are working a $10 an hour job maybe it's better to work at a food joint. At least then you get discounts or free meals. If you don't want to work at a food joint, aim for something that pays $3 or more an hour.

Atop that, don't get things you can't afford. At $10 an hour a car is going to be rough. You're going to be taking a bus a lot. And probably renting a room or having a roommate.

It's called minimum wage for a reason. There's no such thing as a livable wage, the amount of money you need for the lifestyle you desire or have is variant for everyone. It's nothing more than pretty language to hide the term "minimum."

Don't shoot for or even care about minimum wage in your life.
If you want livable, improve yourself and your skills, learn how to bring value to the business (instead of making employment with them about you). You are being paid to provide a service. So bring value and find those who appreciate it. If you live somewhere where this is not possible then maybe it's time to migrate somewhere with better opportunities (and please leave the "progressive" mindset back in the failing state you are leaving, don't try to change places that you move to that are working fine. They work for a reason.)

We aren't entitled to anything in this life. Our rights simply mean the government isn't allowed to try to take them from us. What you make of life is up to you. Sometimes yes, you will not reach those lofty heights.
It's easy to demand government help and be charitable when you're using other people's money. But it's not charity when you force it on people with increased taxes and prices go up to make up for it or businesses shut down because it makes no sense to keep operating in that city. (then states try to go after you if you spend 60 days in their state and demand you pay them income tax anyway for the next 10 years while really giving you nothing in return when you leave). California is actually attempting to do this.

All this started with the "livable wage" nonsense.
Livable is something you work to attain. Minimum is what you are owed. That raise in minimum wage won't go far when the local prices rise to compensate for all the other employees they have to pay citywide too (after all it's not just you getting that raise).
Meaning that $11 an hour will probably buy as much as what you're being paid now.

 

[Genipher]

Considering I can get a gallon jug of water for $3 that will last me a few days easy, up to a week....
And that I can get enough food at McDonald's (yeah I know not healthy but it's still food) for a day for $10 and eat very well? (2 burgers, 2 fries, and 20 pieces of chicken nuggets).
And that's not being frugal with groceries. If you work 8 hours at $10 an hour, even with taxes factored in at 20% an hour and a half should easily pay for your food.
Then again if you are working a $10 an hour job maybe it's better to work at a food joint. At least then you get discounts or free meals. If you don't want to work at a food joint, aim for something that pays $3 or more an hour.

Atop that, don't get things you can't afford. At $10 an hour a car is going to be rough. You're going to be taking a bus a lot. And probably renting a room or having a roommate.

It's called minimum wage for a reason. There's no such thing as a livable wage, the amount of money you need for the lifestyle you desire or have is variant for everyone. It's nothing more than pretty language to hide the term "minimum."

Don't shoot for or even care about minimum wage in your life.
If you want livable, improve yourself and your skills, learn how to bring value to the business (instead of making employment with them about you). You are being paid to provide a service. So bring value and find those who appreciate it. If you live somewhere where this is not possible then maybe it's time to migrate somewhere with better opportunities (and please leave the "progressive" mindset back in the failing state you are leaving, don't try to change places that you move to that are working fine. They work for a reason.)

We aren't entitled to anything in this life. Our rights simply mean the government isn't allowed to try to take them from us. What you make of life is up to you. Sometimes yes, you will not reach those lofty heights.
It's easy to demand government help and be charitable when you're using other people's money. But it's not charity when you force it on people with increased taxes and prices go up to make up for it or businesses shut down because it makes no sense to keep operating in that city. (then states try to go after you if you spend 60 days in their state and demand you pay them income tax anyway for the next 10 years while really giving you nothing in return when you leave). California is actually attempting to do this.

All this started with the "livable wage" nonsense.
Livable is something you work to attain. Minimum is what you are owed. That raise in minimum wage won't go far when the local prices rise to compensate for all the other employees they have to pay citywide too (after all it's not just you getting that raise).
Meaning that $11 an hour will probably buy as much as what you're being paid now.

Right. Which is why my husband kept working and while working, searched for a job that would better support our family.
He now has a job that takes care of all our needs. We have some debt, but that's our fault and we're budgeting and dealing with it.

As to a car, we went about 15 years with one. Now, thankfully, we have 2. A gas hog that holds our whole family and a little gas efficient car that my husband drives to work. Because he DOES have to drive to get to his job. No buses available. And a taxi is ridiculously expensive. We could move back to one vehicle if we had to.

We get McYuckys once a week as a treat. Buying from the cheap menu, it costs us $40 for ONE meal. To ONLY ever eat from a restaurant it would cost us roughly $120 a DAY.
Instead, we eat healthier options that I cook, for cheaper (oatmeal or waffles for bfast, sandwiches and fruit for lunch, veggies and rice and a little meat for dinner). My menu costs us around $40/day. Sometimes less.

I wasn't saying everyone needs to give. Charity (or tithing) is something our family feels led by Yahweh to do, as we're able to.

So, yeah. Everyone has different needs. Not everyone needs the same amount of monthly income.
There are many variables that determine a living wage. I agree that if a person needs more to survive, they should get a second job or a better job.
Often easier said than done, I know. But we have had to do that.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

Considering I can get a gallon jug of water for $3 that will last me a few days easy, up to a week....
And that I can get enough food at McDonald's (yeah I know not healthy but it's still food) for a day for $10 and eat very well? (2 burgers, 2 fries, and 20 pieces of chicken nuggets).
And that's not being frugal with groceries. If you work 8 hours at $10 an hour, even with taxes factored in at 20% an hour and a half should easily pay for your food.
Then again if you are working a $10 an hour job maybe it's better to work at a food joint. At least then you get discounts or free meals. If you don't want to work at a food joint, aim for something that pays $3 or more an hour.

At one of my low points, I limited my grocery budget to $20-$25/week by only buying items on sale or buying meat value packs. I was eating well and healthy. It is doable, about $3/day, and cheaper than McDonalds. I also ate out at a restaurant once a week with my roommate as a treat, probably about $20 there.

 

[Magenta]

Right. Which is why my husband kept working and while working, searched for a job that would better support our family.
He now has a job that takes care of all our needs. We have some debt, but that's our fault and we're budgeting and dealing with it.

As to a car, we went about 15 years with one. Now, thankfully, we have 2. A gas hog that holds our whole family and a little gas efficient car that my husband drives to work. Because he DOES have to drive to get to his job. No buses available. And a taxi is ridiculously expensive. We could move back to one vehicle if we had to.

We get McYuckys once a week as a treat. Buying from the cheap menu, it costs us $40 for ONE meal. To ONLY ever eat from a restaurant it would cost us roughly $120 a DAY.
Instead, we eat healthier options that I cook, for cheaper (oatmeal or waffles for bfast, sandwiches and fruit for lunch, veggies and rice and a little meat for dinner). My menu costs us around $40/day. Sometimes less.

I wasn't saying everyone needs to give. Charity (or tithing) is something our family feels led by Yahweh to do, as we're able to.

So, yeah. Everyone has different needs. Not everyone needs the same amount of monthly income.
There are many variables that determine a living wage. I agree that if a person needs more to survive, they should get a second job or a better job.
Often easier said than done, I know. But we have had to do that.

I was raised in a family of thirteen (eleven brothers and sisters, plus parents).

Family history is something my siblings and I love to discuss My closest sister was telling me recently that when she and at least three other siblings plus our mother lived together (following the passing of my dad), and shopped every week for their grocery needs, they went to the store with forty dollars Forty dollars to feed at least five people (and possibly six) for a week! (That would have been the late 70s ) Now when I grocery shop, one bag of groceries, for one person, is about $30.00 And it certainly does not last a week

PS~~ kudos to you and your husband

 

[Genipher]

I was raised in a family of thirteen (eleven brothers and sisters, plus parents).

Family history is something my siblings and I love to discuss My closest sister was telling me recently that when she and at least three other siblings plus our mother lived together (following the passing of my dad), and shopped every week for their grocery needs, they went to the store with forty dollars Forty dollars to feed at least five people (and possibly six) for a week! (That would have been the late 70s ) Now when I grocery shop, one bag of groceries, for one person, is about $30.00 And it certainly does not last a week

PS~~ kudos to you and your husband

Every time I look at my grocery cart I think, "This can't be more than 'x' amount." And then it ends up 3x that much. Food has gotten expensive.
I would love to eat out all the time (I really don't like to cook; love baking, though) but it's just too expensive for our family. Even our weekly treat has to be cut out sometimes, due to budget.

There's a woman on youtube I like to watch. She has a family of 6 family and her budget is something like $40/week. But she has an Aldis, her husband apparently makes a good wage, and they live in a an area with a veeeeery low cost of living.

Another one I love to watch is "Our Tribe of Many". She has a family of 11 and her budget is closer to mine. Though I'm still a bit envious that she has an Aldis. I used to live near a Costco and that was a blessing on our budget.

 

[Magenta]

Every time I look at my grocery cart I think, "This can't be more than 'x' amount." And then it ends up 3x that much. Food has gotten expensive.
I would love to eat out all the time (I really don't like to cook; love baking, though) but it's just too expensive for our family. Even our weekly treat has to be cut out sometimes, due to budget.

There's a woman on youtube I like to watch. She has a family of 6 family and her budget is something like $40/week. But she has an Aldis, her husband apparently makes a good wage, and they live in a an area with a veeeeery low cost of living.

Another one I love to watch is "Our Tribe of Many". She has a family of 11 and her budget is closer to mine. Though I'm still a bit envious that she has an Aldis. I used to live near a Costco and that was a blessing on our budget.

When I was growing up, things like milk and bread were home delivered regularly. We would go through maybe 20 loaves of bread a week, mostly white, because only the adults would eat the whole wheat. My mother never learned to drive, but she always did the grocery shopping because she was the one who knew what was needed, and the driver, whoever it was, would be the helper. My dad, aside from working full time factory swing shifts, was also an entrepreneur: we would go to weekend farmer's markets and sell produce, mostly apples and potatoes and other seasonal produce as well, especially peaches in the summer, so we always had produce for the table from that. One of my sisters would complain that we always got the seconds, but she was almost on a mission always to discover whether we were eating real butter, or margarine, real orange juice, or Tang, and/or real milk, or powdered skim milk. My mother also pickled and jammed and canned all sorts of things (we had a real earthen-floored fruit cellar in the basement), and we loved helping out with the grinding of the fruit and boiling/sterilization of jars etc. We baked almost all our own goodies: pies, cakes, and cookies, and coming home to large bowls of cinnamon bun dough rising on the heating vents was always a treat. I was an expert fudge maker As a teen, I would come home from working at the farmer's market after school and make fudge every Friday night. None of us eleven kids know how our mother did it. LOL. Only one of my siblings who had children had more than two (she had four) and her house was a mad house all the time while they were growing up, ha.

 

[Genipher]

When I was growing up, things like milk and bread were home delivered regularly. We would go through maybe 20 loaves of bread a week, mostly white, because only the adults would eat the whole wheat. My mother never learned to drive, but she always did the grocery shopping because she was the one who knew what was needed, and the driver, whoever it was, would be the helper. My dad, aside from working full time factory swing shifts, was also an entrepreneur: we would go to weekend farmer's markets and sell produce, mostly apples and potatoes and other seasonal produce as well, especially peaches in the summer, so we always had produce for the table from that. One of my sisters would complain that we always got the seconds, but she was almost on a mission always to discover whether we were eating real butter, or margarine, real orange juice, or Tang, and/or real milk, or powdered skim milk. My mother also pickled and jammed and canned all sorts of things (we had a real earthen-floored fruit cellar in the basement), and we loved helping out with the grinding of the fruit and boiling/sterilization of jars etc. We baked almost all our own goodies: pies, cakes, and cookies, and coming home to large bowls of cinnamon bun dough rising on the heating vents was always a treat. I was an expert fudge maker As a teen, I would come home from working at the farmer's market after school and make fudge every Friday night. None of us eleven kids know how our mother did it. LOL. Only one of my siblings who had children had more than two (she had four) and her house was a mad house all the time while they were growing up, ha.

I love hearing stories like these.

I love to can and I want to be more self-sufficient. Even with all these modern conveniences I just can't seem to get much done. I'm amazed by people like your mom. ❤️

 

[Magenta]

I love hearing stories like these.

I love to can and I want to be more self-sufficient. Even with all these modern conveniences I just can't seem to get much done. I'm amazed by people like your mom. ❤️

It was a different time, wasn't it? Honey and maple syrup were market staples also; my dad would travel a fair distance to get the best price for resale, driving from Ontario into Quebec for syrup, and to the Niagara escarpment for peaches, and even compete at the markets with the farmers he bought from I escaped the major weekly household women's work on Saturdays by volunteering (when I was eight) to work with my dad and three brothers without even knowing what it was they did once they departed the house Saturday morning It was an authentic farmer's market, that one, with an old time yodeling auctioneer auctioning livestock off the barn and restaurant. One of the barns was a flea market, and it was very exciting for me as a youngster to see the changes happening in the public sphere in the mid to late late sixties. Our Friday market was in a shopping mall parking lot. My dad also made barrels and barrels of apple cider in the fall to sell at the fall fairs we would go to; the fairs were a lot of fun and quite an adventure for the child I was He would collect and sterilize old liquor bottles, and sell cider by the 40 ounce bottle. It was 35 cents; a cup of apple cider was five cents, same price as a single apple in those days. I do not know what a barrel of cider sold for The cider would ferment after a few days also

We always ate all our meals together. When my dad was working nights, our noon meal was a full-on dinner, and the evening meal a lighter supper. If he was home for the evening meal, our noon meal was a light lunch, and the evening meal a full-on dinner. We went to a near-by school and would walk home at noon, and then back to school for the rest of the afternoon, from kindergarten through high school. We would often visit relatives on a Sunday afternoon after church, and stay for dinner. Can you imagine having a dozen people showing up for dinner? It was not always pre-planned/announced, either, and people would likewise drop in on us on a Sunday afternoon and stay for dinner. My mother would just pull an extra roast out of the deep freeze and cook more veggies and potatoes And there were always extra pies in the freezer, also. Apple pie is still my fave

My parents both grew up on farms, and my dad especially was what is known as a subsistence farmer, which means they grew food to feed themselves, plus they fished and hunted game to supplement their diet, or they would have starved. My father plowed the fields walking behind an animal (equine or bovine I do not know for sure), because they were too poor to afford a tractor, even though my dad worked a tractor in a neighbor's fields. I posted some of this before in other threads...

I have been talking quite a bit of late to my twin brother, who has done extensive research into our family tree, giving him lots of stories to share aside from what he remembers. According to him, one time we had over twenty people drop in for Sunday dinner. That would have been multiple families, since none of our relatives' families rivaled ours' in size LOL. We yearly hosted about thirty or so people for Christmas dinner, so more than forty people for a sit-down meal, and possibly also at Thanksgiving and Easter. Huge turkey with all the fixings, mashed, gravy, cranberry sauce, multiple veggie dishes, and the to-die-for dressing, plus multiple home made pie choices and cakes for dessert. For a time we regularly drove about an hour every Sunday afternoon to visit my mother's only sister and her family, who lived on a rural farm north of us. My mother had three brothers as well, and my dad was from a family of twelve children, so we had lots of aunts and uncles and cousins I cannot imagine what feeding such numbers would cost these days.

I watched a bit of the first video you posted You do have to be very organized to pull off that kind of meal planning, and also any canning or jamming and pickling and such, since there is a small window of time to can and jam for most fruits. With eight children you could have a grand time doing something like that as a group project. My siblings and I agree that my mother ruled the roost with an iron fist LOL. She gave up working as a teacher in a one room school house when she married, and devoted her life to raising her family. Once all the kids were grown and out of the house, she volunteered at schools, tutoring students, and libraries. And always had someone to drive her to go shopping

 

[GaryA]

There is a lot of talk about a livable wage.
What is your definition of a livable wage?

"Just enough to keep you alive and working - so that the rich get richer while you stay poor."

 

[UCA4J]

There is a lot of talk about a livable wage.
What is your definition of a livable wage?
If some one makes enough for food , shelter, and clothing, is that a livable wage?
What would you add to that list as being necessary and not what some one might want?
Minimum wage in my state goes to $11 per hour on January first. That will easily pay for necessary food, shelter, and clothing, with some left for wants.

the minimum wage here is at least $18 per hour. any amount below that is illegal, as is cash in hand. The minimum weekly wage is about $500 per week, depending on the industry.

 

[DWR]

Have you noticed what many people buy and do not buy when shopping for food?
I see shopping carts full of sodas, chips, cookies, lunch meat (who really knows what it is made of), and stuff that can be heated in a micro wave.
Very few fresh fruits and vegetables or food that takes a little preparation.
Money for cellphones, internet, TV's, microwaves, beer, wine, tobacco, sodas, chips, big macs and the like are not necessary for a livable wage.

What I have noticed is that a very large portion of most people's wages is totally wasted.

I know there are exceptions, and we should help those who can not help themselves, but many are in need because of their own foolishness.

 

[PC123]

Minimum wage in my state goes to $11 per hour on January first

$11 p/h... I can't believe how amazingly low that is...
Here in Australia the minimum wage for a full time employee working a 38 hour week is $19.84 p/h.
And even at that rate i cannot see how it is at all possible for somebody to one day own a home.
Even at $1,000 a week it is still impossible to one day own a home on your own.

 

[Ruby123]

$11 p/h... I can't believe how amazingly low that is...
Here in Australia the minimum wage for a full time employee working a 38 hour week is $19.84 p/h.
And even at that rate i cannot see how it is at all possible for somebody to one day own a home.
Even at $1,000 a week it is still impossible to one day own a home on your own.

PC do you live in the east or west of Aus. I live in the west.

 

[tourist]

When I was growing up, things like milk and bread were home delivered regularly. We would go through maybe 20 loaves of bread a week, mostly white, because only the adults would eat the whole wheat. My mother never learned to drive, but she always did the grocery shopping because she was the one who knew what was needed, and the driver, whoever it was, would be the helper. My dad, aside from working full time factory swing shifts, was also an entrepreneur: we would go to weekend farmer's markets and sell produce, mostly apples and potatoes and other seasonal produce as well, especially peaches in the summer, so we always had produce for the table from that. One of my sisters would complain that we always got the seconds, but she was almost on a mission always to discover whether we were eating real butter, or margarine, real orange juice, or Tang, and/or real milk, or powdered skim milk. My mother also pickled and jammed and canned all sorts of things (we had a real earthen-floored fruit cellar in the basement), and we loved helping out with the grinding of the fruit and boiling/sterilization of jars etc. We baked almost all our own goodies: pies, cakes, and cookies, and coming home to large bowls of cinnamon bun dough rising on the heating vents was always a treat. I was an expert fudge maker As a teen, I would come home from working at the farmer's market after school and make fudge every Friday night. None of us eleven kids know how our mother did it. LOL. Only one of my siblings who had children had more than two (she had four) and her house was a mad house all the time while they were growing up, ha.

While living in Maine I made various fudges for a hobby. My next hobby that I will start at the beginning of the new year is to learn how to bake various types of bread from scratch. Might get back into the fudge thing too.

For me a fudge has to have a very firm texture and not mushy. Gonna get a copper kettle and a marble slab and start doing it right. Oh, must get a premium candy thermometer too although at one point I was relying on the cold water test. So, my New Year resolution will be to learn to bake bread and hone my confectionary skills. Yeah, another resolution would be to quit smoking too. Maybe I can make nicotine laced brownies. Years ago I developed a chewy cocoa brownie recipe that got rave reviews but can't quite remember it now. It had something to do with the addition of marshmallows.

I'm still on target with my French Toast recipe though. Darlene loves it. I used to make it every Saturday morning for my daughter Jackie as she was growing up. She now makes it the same way that I did for her 5 children and husband.

Since we are still staying at the motel our Christmas dinner will be KFC. We will be moving into our new home early next week. Darlene is planning on either baking a turkey or a ham. She is really into the holidays, so much more that I obviously am.

Merry Christmas to you and your daughter and pray that the New Year brings God's joy and contentment to your life. Looking outside it looks like its going to be a white hard candy Christmas here where we are.

 

[iamsoandso]

There is a lot of talk about a livable wage.
What is your definition of a livable wage?
If some one makes enough for food , shelter, and clothing, is that a livable wage?
What would you add to that list as being necessary and not what some one might want?
Minimum wage in my state goes to $11 per hour on January first. That will easily pay for necessary food, shelter, and clothing, with some left for wants.

It's strange how money works because most think if they could somewhere in life make a million dollars then they would be okay,,but. If you take a million dollars and divide it by twenty years then if you make 50,000.00 a year then you did make a million dollars? But that's not the median average income in the US it's between 65-70 thousand a year so most make over a million dollars across their lives in the US https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-average-income-in-usa-family-household-history-3306189

So it's not how much you make that gives anyone a "livable wage" it's what you can buy with a million dollars after you make it. Since we(most/median) do make a million dollars in our careers then what it buys is how to measure a "livable wage". That's the problem if you think about it(I think) it's that a million dollars in the US only buys us a used mobile home or a used car. Their trying to get us all to live in "tiny homes" that are made by a portable building manufacturer instead of having a real house on land we paid for like in the old days.