Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

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Major said:
Certainly...I did not post them as I have before and I thought everyone knew what the Sign Gifts were. My apologies as they are in Mark 16:17-19........
"And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

As Has been shown by the Greek Grammar, the "THEM" in verse 17 is the "antecedent" of the ELEVEN Apostles in verse #14.

Now when you read the literal words found in verses 17-19 do YOU see the words.....Choices????

Does the literal Word of God say that the ELEVEN apostles will be able to EITHER,
Cast out demons,
or they can choose to heal the sick,
or they can choose to drink stagnant poisioned water
or that can speak in a new tongue or they can
choose to handle venomous snakes???

Is that what it says my friend??? NO IT IS NOT! "It says they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

The Sign Gifts given to the apostles were a package deal, not pick or choose what they wanted to do. They could and did do all of those things.

I was NOT being sarcastic at all. I was being totally REALISTIC. Today, people demand that they have the Sign Gifts and all I did was to show YOU that if you can fake speaking in tongues then you should have the ability to kiss a rattelsnake. That is not sarcastic but instead is being truthfull.

If you can do one you can then do ALL the Sign Gifts.

It is just like believing that men can do faith healings. "I believe that Pastor so and so can heal. "
"I have seen Pastor Billy Bob heal many people."

OK.......Enough talk. Lets see it done. Lets see all the Faith Healers go from hospital room to hospital room and empty them and put an end to this Covid-19 pandemic!!!!!!

Why is that not being done today????
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Sometimes I wonder if God believes in people who say they do not really believe in the 3rd person of the Trinity. Mind you, that is just me wondering. You simply do not believe what scriptures states. You are not alone though, if that is any comfort. ;)

What you say about people 'doing' is wrong, so your premise is wrong which helps to create your faulty understanding. The Holy Spirit is the one doing the 'doing'. You know, that One who resides in Christians and seals them? That One. You have made up a whole lot things I never say nor believe. So you are actually debating with yourself.

The Bible does not present any get two get one free gifts. That is your nonsense and a very bad understanding.
 
Dino246 said:
I'm surprised that anyone claimed this, in light of 1 Corinthians 12:29-30.
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Lets be clear and cut to the chase. The one and only reason why you support the continueing of the Sign Gifts even in the clear light of the Scriptures is that you are a Charismatic Pentecostal and YOU WANT to speak in a gibberish that no one interprets or understands.

We ALL accept and believe in the healings that God produces and most of us have experienced one or some of them.

However.....Who do you know that in the spreading of the gospel message one has has survived a Cobra bite?
Who do you know that has drunk poisioned water and survived it???

You see we can not do those things because that would be TEMPING God and the Bible says that we can not do such a thing.

But......we can speak in a way that sound unintelligible and believe it is a move of God.

So you do it. That is the bottom line so why in the world don't you just admit it???

Secondly........In case you did not know it allow me to tell you that there is NO/NONE/ZERO Bible Scriptures that tell us there is an Apostolic succession!!!! NO NOT ONE!!!

So then, why does anyone claim to have the Apostolic Sign Gifts when there are NO Scriptures that even suggest such a thing?????

Because YOU WANT to speak in a strange unintelligible noise.
 
I would not want to stand in the shoes of an individual that mocks the gifts, as is being done in this thread, and continually posts ad hominem attacks to attempt to shut down people who do not go along with their renderings.
 
Major said:
However.....Who do you know that in the spreading of the gospel message one has has survived a Cobra bite?
Who do you know that has drunk poisioned water and survived it???
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Did you know Paul? Yet you would state you believe the record.

Unless you are everywhere at all times and have been around the last 2000 years, it is impossible for you to state this has never happened. I don't think you would survive in a country where persecution of Christians is active and ongoing. I certainly would not want to be in such a country myself, but I am sure I would know Who my hope was in.

I fully understand that nothing worthwhile is going to come out of this thread. Cessationists will continue to boast about their disbelief and those of us who know better will try to reason with then to no end.
 
SophieT said:
I would say using letters instead of Holy Spirit is a step in that direction. Unless of course you are Jewish and have decided you cannot spell the entire Name. LOL!
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See, this is how low you have gone, you can’t refute anything I have said so you have to resort to this ad hominem or strawman.

and who was it that was just complaining of using ad hominem attack to shut someone down?

again, you need to look inside
 
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SophieT said:
Well that is what you call it. LOL! I call it disbelief and bad comprehension which is earned through dismissing the Holy Spirit.
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You are very welcome to believe that. However.....Your disagreement is not with me at all as when you do you are calling God a liar as what I post is from the Word of God.

The Sign Gifts were given to the ELEVEN Apostles and not yu and me today.

Mark 16:14-17.....
"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues".

The Greek Grammar "demands" that the antecedent of the word "THOSE/THEM" in verse 17 refers to the ELEVEN in verse 14. That is NOT MY opinion or what I think or even what I like but it is WHAT IT IS LINGUISTICALLY.

Please do not accept what I say as the truth. YOU do the work. YOU look it up! It is very easy to prove what I just said.

Again, The Word of God says in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 ........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is PERFECT is come, then that
which is in part shall be done away. "

"PERFECT" here is the word "TELEION" and it means COMPLETE or MATURE. Again, Linguistically in the origianl Greek it is a "FEMININE" neuter verb and CAN NOT mean Jesus Christ as He is a MASCULINE NOUN.

IT can not mean heaven or the 2nd Coming of Christ as the same problem exists.

IT can only mean the COMPLETION of the Word of God.

It matters not one iota to me if you accept that or reject but that is what it is!!!!
 
SophieT said:
Did you know Paul? Yet you would state you believe the record.

Unless you are everywhere at all times and have been around the last 2000 years, it is impossible for you to state this has never happened. I don't think you would survive in a country where persecution of Christians is active and ongoing. I certainly would not want to be in such a country myself, but I am sure I would know Who my hope was in.

I fully understand that nothing worthwhile is going to come out of this thread. Cessationists will continue to boast about their disbelief and those of us who know better will try to reason with then to no end.
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What you are doing is called......"Rationalization".

If you think that validate what you want to think then please feel free to do so. IT does not make it so but if it makes you feel better then do so.
 
SophieT said:
I would not want to stand in the shoes of an individual that mocks the gifts, as is being done in this thread, and continually posts ad hominem attacks to attempt to shut down people who do not go along with their renderings.
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Thats rich.

I would certainly not want to be in the shoes of anyone who changes or adds to the Word of God.

Deut. 4:2......
"You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. "
 
SophieT said:
Did you know Paul? Yet you would state you believe the record.

Unless you are everywhere at all times and have been around the last 2000 years, it is impossible for you to state this has never happened. I don't think you would survive in a country where persecution of Christians is active and ongoing. I certainly would not want to be in such a country myself, but I am sure I would know Who my hope was in.

I fully understand that nothing worthwhile is going to come out of this thread. Cessationists will continue to boast about their disbelief and those of us who know better will try to reason with then to no end.
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It has nothing to do with disbelief in any way and actually everything to do with believing.

I for one BELIEVE what The Word of God actually says my dear and not what someone has told me that they think it says.

READ the Scriptures for yourself.

THere are NO Bible commands for Apostolic succession!!!

NO one has the Sign Gifts that were given to the ELEVEN Apostles.

It is simply not Biblically possible. IT is possible if YOU chose to reject the Word of God however.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
See, this is how low you have gone, you can’t refute anything I have said so you have to resort to this ad hominem or strawman.

and who was it that was just complaining of using ad hominem attack to shut someone down?

again, you need to look inside
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The thing that is always apparent in this kinds of discussions is that when anyone rejects the teachings found in the Word of God.....
the next step is to always become personal and attack the messenger.

That is one of the advantages of being able to hide behind a computer screen.
 
SophieT said:
I would not want to stand in the shoes of an individual that mocks the gifts, as is being done in this thread, and continually posts ad hominem attacks to attempt to shut down people who do not go along with their renderings.
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Sad case. The Holy Spirit never acts outside of the word of God.

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

SophieT said:
Did you know Paul? Yet you would state you believe the record.

Unless you are everywhere at all times and have been around the last 2000 years, it is impossible for you to state this has never happened. I don't think you would survive in a country where persecution of Christians is active and ongoing. I certainly would not want to be in such a country myself, but I am sure I would know Who my hope was in.

I fully understand that nothing worthwhile is going to come out of this thread. Cessationists will continue to boast about their disbelief and those of us who know better will try to reason with then to no end.
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Complete nonsense. We do know what Paul wrote. We do know that God has given His word for us to know Him. Learn to know God as He has said we should know Him. Not through gifts but through the witness of His Spirit with our spirit.

Ro 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The more effort placed on demonstrating one's salvation by evidences of powers the more doubt is cast upon the validity of their profession.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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