The Pre-Tribulation Rapture: The Blessed Hope of the Saints
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Why is God shortening the days for the sake of his elect Christians, if according to you some do not survive the great tribulation? Is it to force fit your false teaching of John Darby Nelson Christian Zionist frame of mind, and not God's simple true word found in his simple to understand scripture?
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Then next major event is the great apostasy, before the "Peace and safety" covenant with many by the anti-christ (to deceive many, if possible even God's elect Christians), followed 3.5 years later by the great tribulation and persecution of the remainder of the apostate church, God's elect Christians, during God's wrath that will come only on those that receives the anti-christ's mark of the beast. After all this Christ Yeshua returns in the clouds, and we who are alive, together with the resurrected in Christ, meets him in the clouds at our rapture.
https://www.equip.org/article/a-biblical-response-to-christian-zionism/
Christian Zionism—which predates secular Zionism by more than half a century—is constructed along two major theological fault lines. First, Christian Zionists are convinced that the land promises God made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are as yet unfulfilled. The principal flaw here is a failure to recognize that all the types and shadows of the Old Covenant, including the holy land of Israel, the holy city Jerusalem, and the holy temple, have been fulfilled in the holy Christ. Second, at the heart of Christian Zionism is the dispensational notion that God has two distinct people, one of whom must be raptured before He can continue His plan with the other. Scripture, however, reveals one chosen people who form one covenant community, beautifully symbolized as one cultivated olive tree.
Zionism is a religiopolitical movement committed to the establishment of an autonomous Jewish state, with Jerusalem as its capital, and a rebuilt temple as its center of spiritual and sociological identity. Christian Zionism—which predates secular Zionism by more than half a century—is constructed along two major theological fault lines. First is the misconception that the Holy Land, the Holy City, and the Holy Temple continue to have theological significance. Second is the myth that God has two distinct people. Only one of those peoples—the Jews—will suffer tribulation. The other—the church—will be removed from the world in a secret coming seven years prior to the second coming of Christ. This distinctive twist on Scripture is known as dispensational eschatology.
https://www.equip.org/article/a-biblical-response-to-christian-zionism/
Christian Zionism—which predates secular Zionism by more than half a century—is constructed along two major theological fault lines. First, Christian Zionists are convinced that the land promises God made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are as yet unfulfilled. The principal flaw here is a failure to recognize that all the types and shadows of the Old Covenant, including the holy land of Israel, the holy city Jerusalem, and the holy temple, have been fulfilled in the holy Christ. Second, at the heart of Christian Zionism is the dispensational notion that God has two distinct people, one of whom must be raptured before He can continue His plan with the other. Scripture, however, reveals one chosen people who form one covenant community, beautifully symbolized as one cultivated olive tree.
Zionism is a religiopolitical movement committed to the establishment of an autonomous Jewish state, with Jerusalem as its capital, and a rebuilt temple as its center of spiritual and sociological identity. Christian Zionism—which predates secular Zionism by more than half a century—is constructed along two major theological fault lines. First is the misconception that the Holy Land, the Holy City, and the Holy Temple continue to have theological significance. Second is the myth that God has two distinct people. Only one of those peoples—the Jews—will suffer tribulation. The other—the church—will be removed from the world in a secret coming seven years prior to the second coming of Christ. This distinctive twist on Scripture is known as dispensational eschatology.
You are close.
But they are both saints.
It is the pretrib rapture.
Go back and read it.
"BEFORE THE FLOOD"" ....Jesus frames his Noah example BEFORE THE FLOOD,THEN,HE GOES ON TO EXPLAIN one taken/left.....pretrib rapture big time.
Then you LEAVE OUT;
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Postrib gathering gets traction through massive reframing and omission.
Bring in all the verses
The ones your teachers omit.
Postrib rapture fails big time
But they are both saints.
It is the pretrib rapture.
Go back and read it.
"BEFORE THE FLOOD"" ....Jesus frames his Noah example BEFORE THE FLOOD,THEN,HE GOES ON TO EXPLAIN one taken/left.....pretrib rapture big time.
Then you LEAVE OUT;
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Postrib gathering gets traction through massive reframing and omission.
Bring in all the verses
The ones your teachers omit.
Postrib rapture fails big time
No... it couldn't be... because that is not what Darby believed. Hello.
Grasp that "Abs" has some pretty unique "beliefs" that are not consistent with most "pre-tribbers"
Grasp that "Abs" has some pretty unique "beliefs" that are not consistent with most "pre-tribbers"
The Christian elect is present in the great tribulation, God shortened its duration on their behalf:
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
The Christian elect is present in the great tribulation, God shortened its duration on their behalf:
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
If you think carnal believers are exactly the same as those walking Holy then you need a new set of teachers.
You are gun shy over the word "works"
You can not properly differentiate works and salvation.
Be a bean and know Christian's do works. We do not earn salvation, we EARN crowns.
I mean REALLY????
YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT????
You are gun shy over the word "works"
You can not properly differentiate works and salvation.
Be a bean and know Christian's do works. We do not earn salvation, we EARN crowns.
I mean REALLY????
YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT????
We earn nothing, God receives all glory of his Christian elect's salvation by grace, through faith (which is the gift from God) for good works (prepared beforehand by God).
Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Lol
You leave out rev 14
Wow
All you are doing is cherry picking,omitting ,and reframing.
Here's the deal
Ask yourself why your teachers do that.
The ask yourself why is the greatest event ever,the union of the bride and groom, COMPLETELY OMITTED from any postrib rapture doctrine.
Look for it....it ain't there!!!!
The biggest event ever.
And you guys are oblivious
You leave out rev 14
Wow
All you are doing is cherry picking,omitting ,and reframing.
Here's the deal
Ask yourself why your teachers do that.
The ask yourself why is the greatest event ever,the union of the bride and groom, COMPLETELY OMITTED from any postrib rapture doctrine.
Look for it....it ain't there!!!!
The biggest event ever.
And you guys are oblivious
No, what I am stating is that your conclusion made no sense, because [the idea of/believing that] "NO saints survive the trib yrs" is NOT a "pre-trib" stance, thus also not Darby's stance (since he was also "pre-trib" ). He did not believe "ALL trib saints are martyred by the end of it"... that is not what "pre-tribbers" believe (on the whole... "Abs'" take on that point [and several other points] is not the common one amongst those holding the "pre-trib" viewpoint).
So, it makes no sense for you to conclude that his statement draws from "pre-tribbers [like Darby]" as you suggest. It simply does not (and is not the "pre-trib" position on that point).
What I think you were saying is that "saints" DO survive to the end of the trib (whereas "Abs" is saying NONE do). Pre-trib viewpoint is NOT that ALL "saints" are martyred/killed/dead by the end of the trib... those who survive to the end will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children (as this is NOT the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot, but His Second Coming to the earth time-slot). Darby did not agree with the point "Abs" is making there (though both of those men are "pre-trib").
"Abs" just has some unique viewpoints that are not common to most "pre-tribbers" (and many of "Abs'" points are ones I personally disagree with, though we are both "pre-trib"--He is "partial rapture theory," I am NOT... nor, I would say, are most "pre-tribbers" [etc...]).
). He did not believe "ALL trib saints are martyred by the end of it"... that is not what "pre-tribbers" believe (on the whole... "Abs'" take on that point [and several other points] is not the common one amongst those holding the "pre-trib" viewpoint).So, it makes no sense for you to conclude that his statement draws from "pre-tribbers [like Darby]" as you suggest. It simply does not (and is not the "pre-trib" position on that point).
What I think you were saying is that "saints" DO survive to the end of the trib (whereas "Abs" is saying NONE do). Pre-trib viewpoint is NOT that ALL "saints" are martyred/killed/dead by the end of the trib... those who survive to the end will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children (as this is NOT the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" time-slot, but His Second Coming to the earth time-slot). Darby did not agree with the point "Abs" is making there (though both of those men are "pre-trib").
"Abs" just has some unique viewpoints that are not common to most "pre-tribbers" (and many of "Abs'" points are ones I personally disagree with, though we are both "pre-trib"--He is "partial rapture theory," I am NOT... nor, I would say, are most "pre-tribbers" [etc...]).
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God's elect is the Christians, those of the last generation present in the great tribulation, but God shortened the days for their sake.
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Again your Scofield Bible commentary, John Nelson Darby, Christian Zionism false teaching frame of mind is failing you to grasp scripture comprehensively:
https://www.equip.org/article/a-biblical-response-to-christian-zionism/
Christian Zionism is the dispensational notion that God has two distinct people, one of whom must be raptured before He can continue His plan with the other. Scripture, however, reveals one chosen people who form one covenant community, beautifully symbolized as one cultivated olive tree.
Zionism is a religiopolitical movement committed to the establishment of an autonomous Jewish state, with Jerusalem as its capital, and a rebuilt temple as its center of spiritual and sociological identity. Christian Zionism—which predates secular Zionism by more than half a century—is constructed along two major theological fault lines. First is the misconception that the Holy Land, the Holy City, and the Holy Temple continue to have theological significance. Second is the myth that God has two distinct people. Only one of those peoples—the Jews—will suffer tribulation. The other—the church—will be removed from the world in a secret coming seven years prior to the second coming of Christ. This distinctive twist on Scripture is known as dispensational eschatology.
Anti-Semitism is a horrific evil—especially when justified in the name of religion. Hitler, however, needed no such pretext.
As the smoke from the crematoriums wafted over steeples in the German countryside, another evil reared its ugly head. German pastors and parishioners remained strangely silent. For some, it was simply a matter of self-preservation. Others sought to justify their apathy by blaming Jews for the Great War. Still others believed that Jews were fatalistically destined to face the wrath of Antichrist— and thus did nothing.
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Again your Scofield Bible commentary, John Nelson Darby, Christian Zionism false teaching frame of mind is failing you to grasp scripture comprehensively:
https://www.equip.org/article/a-biblical-response-to-christian-zionism/
Christian Zionism is the dispensational notion that God has two distinct people, one of whom must be raptured before He can continue His plan with the other. Scripture, however, reveals one chosen people who form one covenant community, beautifully symbolized as one cultivated olive tree.
Zionism is a religiopolitical movement committed to the establishment of an autonomous Jewish state, with Jerusalem as its capital, and a rebuilt temple as its center of spiritual and sociological identity. Christian Zionism—which predates secular Zionism by more than half a century—is constructed along two major theological fault lines. First is the misconception that the Holy Land, the Holy City, and the Holy Temple continue to have theological significance. Second is the myth that God has two distinct people. Only one of those peoples—the Jews—will suffer tribulation. The other—the church—will be removed from the world in a secret coming seven years prior to the second coming of Christ. This distinctive twist on Scripture is known as dispensational eschatology.
Anti-Semitism is a horrific evil—especially when justified in the name of religion. Hitler, however, needed no such pretext.
As the smoke from the crematoriums wafted over steeples in the German countryside, another evil reared its ugly head. German pastors and parishioners remained strangely silent. For some, it was simply a matter of self-preservation. Others sought to justify their apathy by blaming Jews for the Great War. Still others believed that Jews were fatalistically destined to face the wrath of Antichrist— and thus did nothing.