Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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OIC1965

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19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

22¶Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Context .
You jumped down 17 verses and didn’t answer the question.
 

OIC1965

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Yes God foreknew that through these means they who get in him will be glorified.
So GOD Knew that you and I were going to be saved, but didn’t predestine us to be adopted until we believed.

So we are not predestined according to the foreknowledge of God, according to you. According to you we are predestined according to our faith.

Sounds nice. Not what Peter said, though.
 

throughfaith

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What does verse 2 say?
noun, plural eis·e·ge·ses [ahy-si-jee-seez].
an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.
 

throughfaith

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So GOD Knew that you and I were going to be saved, but didn’t predestine us to be adopted until we believed.

So we are not predestined according to the foreknowledge of God, according to you. According to you we are predestined according to our faith.

Sounds nice. Not what Peter said, though.
22¶Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit
 

throughfaith

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You jumped down 17 verses and didn’t answer the question.
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Calvinistic reading of the same verse :
Elect , who were chosen before the foundation of the world to be converted in time later through sanctification of the spirit ,unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.

Notice the assumption your engaging in also . It doesn't say ' to be saved ' ..SANCTIFICATION.
 

throughfaith

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So he only foreknew Means, he did not foreknow individuals? So he had no idea that he was going to adopt you and me until we believed? That is limited knowledge friend. And if he did knowThat he was going to adopt you and me, then were we chosen and predestinated. God is not an illogical being, that he should know something as infallible fact yet not choose it
I think The father , the Son and the Holy Spirit were in perfect union and fellowship without you in their minds . I now this is upsetting but they were ok without you. Then Adam and Eve was created ,now here we are .
 

OIC1965

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2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Calvinistic reading of the same verse :
Elect , who were chosen before the foundation of the world to be converted in time later through sanctification of the spirit ,unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.

Notice the assumption your engaging in also . It doesn't say ' to be saved ' ..SANCTIFICATION.
We were elect according to what?
 

OIC1965

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noun, plural eis·e·ge·ses [ahy-si-jee-seez].
an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.
Good description of what you’re doing.

You keep talking about Ephesians 2:11 and following. Let’s put a finer point on this.

These verses are talking about not only individuals, but also a group. The Gentiles were aliens and seperated from God’s commonwealth. But pray tell, did God predestine from eternity past that the Gospel would go to them. Yes.

Your eisegesis and prooftexting failed to even consider one of the main points of Ephesians. The mystery of God that was hidden in times past and now revealed, that Jews and Gentiles might be brought together through the removal of the dividing wall of hostility, making the two one and thus making peace.

That’s what Paul is talking about in that passage.
 

throughfaith

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Where is the word foreknowledge in Galatians 4?
“Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)
 

throughfaith

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Good description of what you’re doing.

You keep talking about Ephesians 2:11 and following. Let’s put a finer point on this.

These verses are talking about not only individuals, but also a group. The Gentiles were aliens and seperated from God’s commonwealth. But pray tell, did God predestine from eternity past that the Gospel would go to them. Yes.

Your eisegesis and prooftexting failed to even consider one of the main points of Ephesians. The mystery of God that was hidden in times past and now revealed, that Jews and Gentiles might be brought together through the removal of the dividing wall of hostility, making the two one and thus making peace.

That’s what Paul is talking about in that passage.
Its almost like you judge every verse through the lense of this 'in the mind of God ' philosophy you have ?
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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Good description of what you’re doing.

You keep talking about Ephesians 2:11 and following. Let’s put a finer point on this.

These verses are talking about not only individuals, but also a group. The Gentiles were aliens and seperated from God’s commonwealth. But pray tell, did God predestine from eternity past that the Gospel would go to them. Yes.

Your eisegesis and prooftexting failed to even consider one of the main points of Ephesians. The mystery of God that was hidden in times past and now revealed, that Jews and Gentiles might be brought together through the removal of the dividing wall of hostility, making the two one and thus making peace.

That’s what Paul is talking about in that passage.
ok, but why does it say ' without hope ' and strangers ' ' without God ' ?
 

throughfaith

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We were elect according to what?
To do what you mean ? Its God that chooses to do or for a purpose or service ect . No verse says ' chosen to salvation ' . So we can keep going round the houses on this ,but the bible never says individuals were hard picked to salvation through foreknowledge or otherwise ..The Arminian position is simply a ' tweak ' on the Calvinist position . They both place ' election ' to salvation, in eternity past . You have no verses but " if God knows, then this must mean, and God being this and by logic this and this word means...blah blah blah. And i don't equate predestination synonymous with ' election ' . They are separate meanings .
 

Budman

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Throughfaith, it seems you and OIC1965 have really made this thread your own! 🤣