The Pre-Tribulation Rapture: The Blessed Hope of the Saints

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Pilgrimshope Everything in Matthew 24 (through chpt 25) takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture".

The "you/ye" of Matthew 24 (in the first half of your post ^ ) is a "consistent 'you'"... and a "proleptic 'you'" meaning (basically) "all those in the future, OF THE SAME CATEGORY," and here the context is "those to whom the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom was promised". [that is, ISRAEL (involving the believing remnant of Israel who come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture")... and which will also involve those whom they will "invite" to same (i.e. Gentiles/the nations--some of whom will respond favorably)]

At the time that Jesus had spoken His Olivet Discourse (and even throughout it [esp in His response to their Q of Him in Matt24:3--so everything that follows, throughout both chpts]), He had not yet mentioned anything about the Subject of "our Rapture," but instead all about the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth. (i.e. the CONTEXT of the Olivet Discourse is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture," at all)

 

[KJV1611]

^ @Pilgrimshope Everything in Matthew 24 (through chpt 25) takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture".

The "you/ye" of Matthew 24 (in the first half of your post ^ ) is a "consistent 'you'"... and a "proleptic 'you'" meaning (basically) "all those in the future, OF THE SAME CATEGORY," and here the context is "those to whom the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom was promised". [that is, ISRAEL (the believing remnant of Israel who come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture")... and which will also involve those whom they will "invite" to same]

At the time that Jesus had spoken His Olivet Discourse (and even throughout it [esp in His response to their Q of Him in Matt24:3--so everything that follows, throughout both chpts]), He had not yet mentioned anything about the Subject of "our Rapture," but instead all about the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth. (i.e. the CONTEXT of the Olivet Discourse is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture," at all)

Not the proleptic you argument again.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Please, every Believer must watch this video!!!!!!!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

^ @Pilgrimshope Everything in Matthew 24 (through chpt 25) takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture".

The "you/ye" of Matthew 24 (in the first half of your post ^ ) is a "consistent 'you'"... and a "proleptic 'you'" meaning (basically) "all those in the future, OF THE SAME CATEGORY," and here the context is "those to whom the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom was promised". [that is, ISRAEL (involving the believing remnant of Israel who come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture")... and which will also involve those whom they will "invite" to same (i.e. Gentiles/the nations--some of whom will respond favorably)]

At the time that Jesus had spoken His Olivet Discourse (and even throughout it [esp in His response to their Q of Him in Matt24:3--so everything that follows, throughout both chpts]), He had not yet mentioned anything about the Subject of "our Rapture," but instead all about the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth. (i.e. the CONTEXT of the Olivet Discourse is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture," at all)

Oh alright well
I appreciate your thoughts thanks

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not the proleptic you argument again.

ever notice the difference in those who believe what scripture says and those who use their own thoughts to explain something different ? And totally disregard the same scripture ?

what do you think causes that ?

 

[KJV1611]

ever notice the difference in those who believe what scripture says and those who use their own thoughts to explain something different ? And totally disregard the same scripture ?

what do you think causes that ?

The love of doctrine over the love of truth.

 

[Ahwatukee]

yes the point is it takes place after the tribulation not before the church goes through the tribulation they aren’t raptured out of it , but after they are gathered

“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:24-27‬ ‭

that’s the end of this world . it’s the only thing that is left to take place . Jesus will return at the end there’s just one day that is going to come suddenly just like in Noah’s day it comes at the end .

this day when Jesus returns that’s it .

the church exists on earth in this world we live in from this time

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


until this time

“For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.



“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That is the same day for believers there as this day for non believers


“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”

‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul is giving revelation into what Jesus has already taught beforehand

“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:40-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Revelation is a vision John saw as he was taken into heaven by the spirit . No ones going to see those things of course , but those visuals are meant to convey revelation of how things would be going forward so you see changes such as

what happens when you die changed I think I understand our conflict in thinking I don’t look at revelation as a predictor of the future and correspond it to forgives on earth . That’s not what I believe it is meant for .

I believe it’s meant to offer revelation of Jesus Christ and the kingdom of God until the very end when all the perpetually unfolding spiritual judgements shown in revelation have ran thier course then Christ will come and gather the church that’s after all the tribulation

but brother I mean this sincerely I disagree on some points but that doesn’t make me right and you wrong , I don’t care about that part I’m no teacher like you or anything , I just see scripture differently on some points

so no offense meant or anything just a discussion

what happens when you die changed I think I understand our conflict in thinking I don’t look at revelation as a predictor of the future and correspond it to forgives on earth . That’s not what I believe it is meant for.

No problem! No offense taken. But it is a predictor of the future. For these events must come to pass. They must be fulfilled. The purpose of Revelation is stated right in the first verse:

"This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must come to pass in quickness."

The events which must come to pass is the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. This is the fulfillment of the long prophesied "Day of the Lord."

In Daniel 2, Jesus is that Rock that is cut out of the mountain and who falls on the feet of the statue, smashing it to pieces, like chaff on a threshing floor and blow away by the wind without leaving a trace. The end of human government. It is through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments that represent Jesus doing the smashing.

 

[Absolutely]

not my scenario brother Jesus “ scenario “ let’s just look at what he said when he was asked

Jesus Christ the lord is asked by those he loves this question and let’s examine his answer with a good spirit between us and then ask ourselves if he’s promising to keep the church out of tribulation or if he’s preparing them to go through it until the end so let’s him me both our selves for one post and see if it changes or helps us out in this discussion

“And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?



And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:3-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬



does anyone interpret that as if Jesus is promising the church won’t have to go through this tribulation ? Or is he answering then to prepare them to go through what’s to come upon the world in the future ? Not one event but these perpetually unfolding tribulations he’s explaining here he continues

“But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:20-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬



he is not promising to take them out and spare them from this time he is preparing them to go through it then he promises to come back after that and gather his people

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Brother I’m a believer in that guy speaking , and I believe his doctrines are right and nothing will change then after. So it’s not so much my scenario as what Jesus was saying and then his apostles added further insight into through thier writings .

The church has to overcome the world full of tribulations , injustice , a world where the righteous do not prosper but the wicked do , where a good man is killed for a few dollars , while Secular wicked men make up the governments of the earth and rule the people

a world where in a year ten twenty thirty thousand Christian missionaries are martyred across the globe , a world where children aren’t safe , elderly are victimized a world where if you are rich you are a king but if you are poor every day is a struggle

this isn’t the life God intends for us , to get to the home he has prepared we have to go through tribulation while we are on earth and overcome the trials of temptation in Christ .

the church will still be enduring that day he returns to further them who remain until that day all together With those who went before

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is no rapture unless your talking about the last day when Jesus returns. As I was saying the first resurrection is a different subject . When Christ returns it’s the end of this world after the Witness of the gospel reaches its fullness in the earth it’s the end .

but I realize when using text in discussions our wording can be seen in a “ tone “ not intended so just to be clear with you brother . I’m not an expert , or a teacher , I don’t claim to be a prophet or even a smart guy I’m just a person seeking answers for questions I have in the depths of my soul about God so I look for the answers in his word

I could just be not bright enough to understand like you do I mean that , I just really want to know the right things to believe so I’m seeking discussion with other believers you don’t need to agree with what I think and I totally respect your thoughts I just see it differently whether I’m right or wrong I don’t know

QUOTE;
""Brother I’m a believer in that guy speaking , and I believe his doctrines are right and nothing will change then after. So it’s not so much my scenario as what Jesus was saying and then his apostles added further insight into through thier writings .""


It was/is Jesus words that you are missing.
"Before the flood"
(Not after)
"In my fathers house" (not earth)
"Lot/Noah" (neither are "after judgement" scenarios)

"I will drink wine with you in heaven" (not earth)
"While the wise are getting their act together the wise went into the marriage chamber (heaven) and the door was shut."
Half gone/Half left

"One shall be taken/one left"
(mat 24)

ALL JESUS WORDS.
Do you agree with the words of Jesus?

Do you read where "one taken/left" is framed "BEFORE THE FLOOD"

did you see "after the tribulation" that gathering is from heaven, not earth?

Those are Jesus depictions.
I can not discard the words of Jesus

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Not the proleptic you argument again.

...says the one who believes that ALL occurrences of the word "ekklesia [/'church' - G1577]" refers to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [note: Eph1:20-23 WHEN]... INCLUDING its usages in:

--Acts 19:32 "ekklesia [G1577]"
--Acts 19:39 "ekklesia [G1577]"
--Acts 19:41 "ekklesia [G1577]"

[may the readers notice that this ^ CONTEXT in Acts 19 is NOT speaking of the "believers/saints" ]





[quoting from BibleHub]

1. among the Greeks from Thucydides (cf. Herodotus 3, 142) down, an assembly of the people convened at the public place of council for the purpose of deliberating: Acts 19:39.

[...]

3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance or tumultuously: Acts 19:32, 41.

 

[KJV1611]

...says the one who believes that ALL occurrences of the word "ekklesia [/'church' - G1577]" refers to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [note: Eph1:20-23 WHEN]... INCLUDING its usages in:

--Acts 19:32 "ekklesia [G1577]"
--Acts 19:39 "ekklesia [G1577]"
--Acts 19:41 "ekklesia [G1577]"

[may the readers notice that this ^ CONTEXT in Acts 19 is NOT speaking of the "believers/saints" ]





[quoting from BibleHub]

1. among the Greeks from Thucydides (cf. Herodotus 3, 142) down, an assembly of the people convened at the public place of council for the purpose of deliberating: Acts 19:39.

[...]

3. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance or tumultuously: Acts 19:32, 41.

I was just having a little fun with ya TDW, I didn't mean it in a mean way.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The love of doctrine over the love of truth.

a lot of mans thinking injected into already clear words from God then labeled the real truth maybe also

“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

seems to be the root of seminaries across the globe and it’s strange because their all so very different in that they teach it’s hard to know the truth in the world because there’s so many different ideas that claim truth

if only God had sent just one man to teach the truth and sent that one truth the same forever into the world for all who believed

 

[Pilgrimshope]

QUOTE;
""Brother I’m a believer in that guy speaking , and I believe his doctrines are right and nothing will change then after. So it’s not so much my scenario as what Jesus was saying and then his apostles added further insight into through thier writings .""


It was/is Jesus words that you are missing.
"Before the flood"
(Not after)
"In my fathers house" (not earth)
"Lot/Noah" (neither are "after judgement" scenarios)

"I will drink wine with you in heaven" (not earth)
"While the wise are getting their act together the wise went into the marriage chamber (heaven) and the door was shut."
Half gone/Half left

"One shall be taken/one left"
(mat 24)

ALL JESUS WORDS.
Do you agree with the words of Jesus?

Do you read where "one taken/left" is framed "BEFORE THE FLOOD"

did you see "after the tribulation" that gathering is from heaven, not earth?

Those are Jesus depictions.
I can not discard the words of Jesus

yes but do you have any biblical information to discuss and can you address what Jesus Christ said or are we just gonna pretend that he didn’t explain all that to his disciples ?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

ever notice the difference in those who believe what scripture says and those who use their own thoughts to explain something different ? And totally disregard the same scripture ?

what do you think causes that ?

I'm not just making it up out of my own head.

Both Jesus and Paul speak of the "birth PANG" issue:

--Jesus: "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" in Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11

--Paul: the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time-period at the INTIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman in labor/with child... but he's referring to the INTIAL ONE [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / -Jesus spoke of as the FIRST ONE OF THOSE: "Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]"]--and note, it is NOT as though it is just "ONE and DONE"... no... It is the INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR] (at the START of said 'time-period') of MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that will FOLLOW ON from that INTIAL ONE (this is how "birth PANGS" WORK! )



"The beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are the EQUIVALENT of "the SEALS" of Rev6!


And Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1 says (of the FUTURE aspects of the Book) that the things being referred to (in that context/those verses) are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (NOT things which would unfold over the course of some 2000 years as the Historicist has it; and NOT things which would unfold "immediateLY [adverb]" "soon [adverb]" as the Preterist has it; and which are NOT "the things WHICH ARE" [chpts 2-3] which things are NOT said to be "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]," BY CONTRAST!)



Paul then, is supplying the SEQUENCE... that is, WHAT happens WHEN in relation [time-wise] to what OTHER THING (in 2Th2:3-8a,9a), which is the SAME SEQUENCE he showed in 1Th4 thru 5, as well as 1Th1:10, "the One delivering us out-from [ek] THE WRATH COMING". And lest you think "wrath" only occurs at the END of the trib yrs, or at least TOWARD the end, then I would encourage you to read again my post re: COMPARING the wording in 2Th2:7b-8a ('the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN [kai tote] shall that Wicked be revealed..." [<--THIS is at the START of the time-period!! NOT its MIDDLE, nor toward its END!!]) with the wording in Lam2:3-4 ("he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy..." effectively saying [to the enemy] "have at 'em!" ... as well as the Hab1:6,12 passage informing us that God uses "the Chaldeans/Babylonians" FOR JUDGMENT and FOR CORRECTION )


[...and which ^ , by the way, is the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that which we see taking place in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 when the angels will REAP (at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH--NOT "our Rapture" point in the chronology )]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ [EDIT to add]... and recall, their Q of Him in Matt24:3 was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50... (and His response follows in both chpts, Matt24 and 25) [i.e. not a "rapture" context, which is revealed and explained elsewhere]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No problem! No offense taken. But it is a predictor of the future. For these events must come to pass. They must be fulfilled. The purpose of Revelation is stated right in the first verse:

"This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must come to pass in quickness."

The events which must come to pass is the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. This is the fulfillment of the long prophesied "Day of the Lord."

In Daniel 2, Jesus is that Rock that is cut out of the mountain and who falls on the feet of the statue, smashing it to pieces, like chaff on a threshing floor and blow away by the wind without leaving a trace. The end of human government. It is through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments that represent Jesus doing the smashing.

yes from then forward things would change in the heavens and on the earth until the end and bring this soon to pass

“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12-13‬ ‭

it doesn’t mean that every word is a literal Predictor of the future of the earth events at all most of it takes place in heaven and the we see how those events in heaven affect the earth and those living on earth

you have to account for the fact that it’s a heavenly vision and the vision bounces back and forth from heaven and earth , also you have to take into account that it involves things from the past , present and future being depicted a totality of the story .

here’s one simple example of that and a good way to look at revelation

“Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so here is my one example my only point to you as I agree with a lot of your thoughts in different posts is everything John writes down is not a future event , but a message that leads to the revelation of our future restoration . So the beast for instance is made of past present and future Kings all of revelation is not a future event and we also should remember it began a long time ago when John wrote the vision down

“The beast that thou sawest was, and is not;

and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:8, 10-12‬ ‭

My only point again is not to debate the beast but to make the point the whole vision of John has that aspect to it

we’re seeing things from before , during and also things in the future represented ina vision or really several small visions overlapping one another

so I see your point and agree it’s purpose is to show what must soon come to pass , but everything in there is. It going to happen in the future much of it already has happened , was happening and would continue to happen until the end

also things change in heaven in the book of revelation before they change on earth it’s the two aspects of one creation being shown existing simultaneously people in heaven while others on earth events in heaven spilling into the earth leading to a future soon to come whether it’s yet a thousand years or a day

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm not just making it up out of my own head.

Both Jesus and Paul speak of the "birth PANG" issue:

--Jesus: "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" in Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11

--Paul: the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time-period at the INTIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman in labor/with child... but he's referring to the INTIAL ONE [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / -Jesus spoke of as the FIRST ONE OF THOSE: "Matt24:4/Mk13:5 - G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]"]--and note, it is NOT as though it is just "ONE and DONE"... no... It is the INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR] (at the START of said 'time-period') of MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that will FOLLOW ON from that INTIAL ONE (this is how "birth PANGS" WORK! )



"The beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are the EQUIVALENT of "the SEALS" of Rev6!


And Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1 says (of the FUTURE aspects of the Book) that the things being referred to (in that context/those verses) are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (NOT things which would unfold over the course of some 2000 years as the Historicist has it; and NOT things which would unfold "immediateLY [adverb]" "soon [adverb]" as the Preterist has it; and which are NOT "the things WHICH ARE" [chpts 2-3] which things are NOT said to be "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]," BY CONTRAST!)



Paul then, is supplying the SEQUENCE... that is, WHAT happens WHEN in relation [time-wise] to what OTHER THING (in 2Th2:3-8a,9a), which is the SAME SEQUENCE he showed in 1Th4 thru 5, as well as 1Th1:10, "the One delivering us out-from [ek] THE WRATH COMING". And lest you think "wrath" only occurs at the END of the trib yrs, or at least TOWARD the end, then I would encourage you to read again my post re: COMPARING the wording in 2Th2:7b-8a ('the one restraining at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be], AND THEN [kai tote] shall that Wicked be revealed..." [<--THIS is at the START of the time-period!! NOT its MIDDLE, nor toward its END!!]) with the wording in Lam2:3-4 ("he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy..." effectively saying [to the enemy] "have at 'em!" ... as well as the Hab1:6,12 passage informing us that God uses "the Chaldeans/Babylonians" FOR JUDGMENT and FOR CORRECTION )


[...and which ^ , by the way, is the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that which we see taking place in Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 when the angels will REAP (at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH--NOT "our Rapture" point in the chronology )]

yea again pretty interesting thoughts , I’ll stick with the things taught in the gospel though . but no hard feelings it’s alright to have different thoughts God bless

 

[Pilgrimshope]

QUOTE;
""Brother I’m a believer in that guy speaking , and I believe his doctrines are right and nothing will change then after. So it’s not so much my scenario as what Jesus was saying and then his apostles added further insight into through thier writings .""


It was/is Jesus words that you are missing.
"Before the flood"
(Not after)
"In my fathers house" (not earth)
"Lot/Noah" (neither are "after judgement" scenarios)

"I will drink wine with you in heaven" (not earth)
"While the wise are getting their act together the wise went into the marriage chamber (heaven) and the door was shut."
Half gone/Half left

"One shall be taken/one left"
(mat 24)

ALL JESUS WORDS.
Do you agree with the words of Jesus?

Do you read where "one taken/left" is framed "BEFORE THE FLOOD"

did you see "after the tribulation" that gathering is from heaven, not earth?

Those are Jesus depictions.
I can not discard the words of Jesus

Honestly I can’t understand this post what your even saying , so o don’t know how to respond

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Edit to correct spelling (3x, lol)

INTIAL

...should read "INITIAL"

(fat fingers??... ... when trying to type fast, it's easy to drop that letter... it happened THREE TIMES, LOL!)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

yea again pretty interesting thoughts , I’ll stick with the things taught in the gospel though . but no hard feelings it’s alright to have different thoughts God bless

Paul IS speaking (here) of things Jesus said in the Gospels... I just POINTED THAT OUT, hello!






[it's almost as though you didn't actually READ what I'd put... nor endeavor to comprehend it at all (even if you ultimately DECIDE to disagree with it--which, if you do, I'd appreciate knowing "which part I put" is unbiblical, or at the very least, not [at all] biblically "reasonable [having 'REASON']")]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Paul IS speaking (here) of things Jesus said in the Gospels... I just POINTED THAT OUT, hello!

well thank you