Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[OIC1965]

I said that was the OT prophetic program.

But after Israel stoned Stephen, God interrupted that with the mystery revealed to the Apostle Paul, that gentiles can now be saved thru the fall of Israel (Romans 11:11).

John was sticking to the OT prophetic program, as stated in Galatians 2:7-9.

John outlived Paul, and certainly understood the meaning and intent of Jesus’ words, when He said “Go and make disciples OF ALL NATIONS. He said this to the eleven.

 

[throughfaith]

Does God elect people to ministry whose future salvation is not foreknown by Him? No.

Any questions we have about Paul are about Paul . Your not Paul .

 

[OIC1965]

Any questions we have about Paul are about Paul . Your not Paul .

So you think you were elected by God to some service before God foreknew you as a son? Don’t know how that would work.

And if you claim that God didn’t foreknow you before you were saved, you are arguing for God having imperfect knowledge.

 

[throughfaith]

So you think you were elected by God to some service before God foreknew you as a son? Don’t know how that would work.

And if you claim that God didn’t foreknow you before you were saved, you are arguing for God having imperfect knowledge.

I haven't talked about myself on this matter ? Were talking about Paul and his experience. Are you Paul?

 

[throughfaith]

So you think you were elected by God to some service before God foreknew you as a son? Don’t know how that would work.

And if you claim that God didn’t foreknow you before you were saved, you are arguing for God having imperfect knowledge.

You like your philosophy. I'm trying to stick to what we can know from the scriptures.

 

[OIC1965]

I haven't talked about myself on this matter ? Were talking about Paul and his experience. Are you Paul?

There are some things that are true of everyone. One is that God knows everything about us before we are born. That includes what He will call us to.

To deny this is to argue for imperfections in God’s knowledge.

You have to deny Omnipresence to consistently hold your view.

 

[OIC1965]

You like your philosophy. I'm trying to stick to what we can know from the scriptures.

Does

The

Scripture

Teach

A

God

That

Has

Limited

Foreknowledge?

 

[OIC1965]

I haven't talked about myself on this matter ? Were talking about Paul and his experience. Are you Paul?

It’s not about the nature and attributes of Paul or who he is. It’s about the nature and attributes of God and who HE is.

You’re too focused on man’s side.

Does God have foreknowledge of super Christians before they are born, but a lesser degree of foreknowledge for us not so super Christians?

 

[throughfaith]

There are some things that are true of everyone. One is that God knows everything about us before we are born. That includes what He will call us to.

To deny this is to argue for imperfections in God’s knowledge.

You have to deny Omnipresence to consistently hold your view.

It sounds like your denying Gods sovereign choice to allow man to have free choice and freedoms ?

 

[throughfaith]

It’s not about the nature and attributes of Paul or who he is. It’s about the nature and attributes of God and who HE is.

You’re too focused on man’s side.

Does God have foreknowledge of super Christians before they are born, but a lesser degree of foreknowledge for us not so super Christians?

God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.​

A.W. Tozer

 

[Magenta]

You or someone else said that Paul never said anything about Jesus being a shepherd,
which I showed to be false. He did call Gentile believers part of the flock of God.

So did Peter 1 Peter 5

As a fellow elder, a witness of Christ’s sufferings, and a partaker of the glory to be revealed, I appeal to the elders among you: Be shepherds of God’s flock that is among you, watching over them not out of compulsion, but because it is God’s will; not out of greed, but out of eagerness; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.

 

[throughfaith]

It’s not about the nature and attributes of Paul or who he is. It’s about the nature and attributes of God and who HE is.

You’re too focused on man’s side.

Does God have foreknowledge of super Christians before they are born, but a lesser degree of foreknowledge for us not so super Christians?

Your too focused on verses about experiences that happened exclusively to individuals. This is inductive reasoning . Where you take one incident and extrapolate from that to mean this happens to all people at all times in the same way . Aka poor bible reading .

 

[OIC1965]

Your too focused on verses about experiences that happened exclusively to individuals. This is inductive reasoning . Where you take one incident and extrapolate from that to mean this happens to all people at all times in the same way . Aka poor bible reading .

Not at all. I’m focused on what we know about God. It is rather elementary to know and understand that God knows who is going to be saved beforehand and how He is going to use them.

A God that is not omniscient is a silly concept.

 

[OIC1965]

Your too focused on verses about experiences that happened exclusively to individuals. This is inductive reasoning . Where you take one incident and extrapolate from that to mean this happens to all people at all times in the same way . Aka poor bible reading .

My argument is that God knows who will be saved before they are saved, and also that He knows from all eternity what He will call us to.

If He didn’t, He would be imperfect in knowledge, and if He is imperfect in knowledge, that means He is learning as time progresses. If that’s what you think God is like, go ahead. I don’t accept such nonsense.

If God knows what He’s going to do with us before He calls us to a ministry, it’s self evident that He’s already made a choice. As soon as He knows what He’s going to do with us, the choice is made

So my questions to you are...

When did God find out that we will be saved?

When did God decide what He was going to do with us?

When did God choose the purpose He has for us?

Did God do all this before He knew we would believe?

If so, why do you say that He didn’t foreknow or predestine us until AFTER we believed?

Massive holes in your argument.

So your paradigm has God not knowing anything about His plan and purpose for us until we are saved. It’s basically open theism when you carry It to it’s logical conclusion.

 

[throughfaith]

My argument is that God knows who will be saved before they are saved, and also that He knows from all eternity what He will call us to.

If He didn’t, He would be imperfect in knowledge, and if He is imperfect in knowledge, that means He is learning as time progresses. If that’s what you think God is like, go ahead. I don’t accept such nonsense.

If God knows what He’s going to do with us before He calls us to a ministry, it’s self evident that He’s already made a choice. As soon as He knows what He’s going to do with us, the choice is made

So your paradigm has God not knowing anything about His plan and purpose for us until we are saved. It’s basically open theism when you carry Otto it’s logical conclusion.

I realise your constraint by rigid confessions , creeds , theologians, isms, ect but I prefer to go with what the bible says . Throwing boogeyman labels and scare tactics around is not good bible study .

 

[throughfaith]

My argument is that God knows who will be saved before they are saved, and also that He knows from all eternity what He will call us to.

If He didn’t, He would be imperfect in knowledge, and if He is imperfect in knowledge, that means He is learning as time progresses. If that’s what you think God is like, go ahead. I don’t accept such nonsense.

If God knows what He’s going to do with us before He calls us to a ministry, it’s self evident that He’s already made a choice. As soon as He knows what He’s going to do with us, the choice is made

So my questions to you are...

When did God find out that we will be saved?

When did God decide what He was going to do with us?

When did God choose the purpose He has for us?

Did God do all this before He knew we would believe?

If so, why do you say that He didn’t foreknow or predestine us until AFTER we believed?

Massive holes in your argument.

So your paradigm has God not knowing anything about His plan and purpose for us until we are saved. It’s basically open theism when you carry Otto it’s logical conclusion.

Where is this discussion about God knowing this and that and how this affects our choices and freedom? How does Gods knowledge affect our choice , which verse ?let's discuss verses that are about God and salvation ect . Your stuck on all this philosophy.

 

[OIC1965]

I realise your constraint by rigid confessions , creeds , theologians, isms, ect but I prefer to go with what the bible says . Throwing boogeyman labels and scare tactics around is not good bible study .

So then you’re an open theist by confession, because God does not know what He’s going to do with us until after we believe. Ok. You can believe that. I don’t.

 

[OIC1965]

Where is this discussion about God knowing this and that and how this affects our choices and freedom? let's discuss verses that are about God and salvation ect . Your stuck on all this philosophy.

Does God have unlimited foreknowledge? Yes or no?

 

[throughfaith]

Does God have unlimited foreknowledge? Yes or no?

Which verse please? . I start with bible verses not philosophy

 

[OIC1965]

Where is this discussion about God knowing this and that and how this affects our choices and freedom? How does Gods knowledge affect our choice , which verse ?let's discuss verses that are about God and salvation ect . Your stuck on all this philosophy.

The Bible teaches that God has perfect foreknowledge and also that we have a degree of freedom by His Grace. These concepts do not exclude each other. We just can’t connect them, because we are not God.