Back-loading Works into the Gospel:

[notuptome]

Roger, you are changing the subject. We are speaking of what our attitude toward works should be. Your post has down played works. I don't think the Lord wants us to disregard working for Him as a saved person, I am objecting to your statement that works are not important. I don't appreciate your turning that into "my heart is far from God".

1 John 5: 2 By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

As long as your works separate you from the grace of God you remain far from God. When you believe the word of God over works your whole perspective will change. As long as you depend more on works than grace you deny grace.

You need a genuine gospel not a corrupted gospel. Genuine gospel saved by grace apart from works.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Yahshua]

Lol nothing I wrote was included in “The Law”

love your neighbor, who is your neighbor?

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

 

[Blik]

nope he did not, he worked so we could be saved, he is the only one who could.


Christ beyed the law of love, in doing so, as he said he fulfilled the law

christ did not look To the law. he looked to his father, I suggest you do the same

I think all law is based on the law of love, the law of love IS the law.

Christ showed us that to obey the rules (honor the Sabbath) without the law of love is not honoring any law in the story of the Samaritan and the Pharisee, and when the apostles ate when they were hungry. I don't think the posters are right when they indicate that if you follow the law you are not following love. If you aren't following love you aren't following the law. The law does not cancel grace, the law points us to the need for grace.

 

[Blik]

As long as your works separate you from the grace of God you remain far from God. When you believe the word of God over works your whole perspective will change. As long as you depend more on works than grace you deny grace.

You need a genuine gospel not a corrupted gospel. Genuine gospel saved by grace apart from works.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Explain how in the world it is possible for works to separate you from grace? Does working for the Lord as a saved person mean that the Lord will take our salvation from us because we act as persons with Christ within? You don't make sense.

If you are truly against working for the Lord, then you are against Christ. When Christ is within, the holy spirit leads us to acting like Christ is within.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

That’s YOUR neighbor
Jesus show d your neighbor is everyone you come in contact whether it is your next door neighbor or a neighboring country
that law you just stated is not all encompasing

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think all law is based on the law of love, the law of love IS the law.

Christ showed us that to obey the rules (honor the Sabbath) without the law of love is not honoring any law in the story of the Samaritan and the Pharisee, and when the apostles ate when they were hungry. I don't think the posters are right when they indicate that if you follow the law you are not following love. If you aren't following love you aren't following the law. The law does not cancel grace, the law points us to the need for grace.

Nooe
the law is not love. Love fulfills the law
The law
Condemned everyone who does
Not keep it as required it is not grace

 

[Blik]

Nooe
the law is not love. Love fulfills the law
The law
Condemned everyone who does
Not keep it as required it is not grace

Such a play on words. Christ showed us that if we obey the rules without love we are not obeying the law. You say "the law is not love".
Every law the Lord has given us has been based on love.

The law tells us what sin is and points us to the need for Christ, and you change this into "the law is not grace". Quite a play on words. It is using facts to twist facts.

 

[Ogom]

nope he did not, he worked so we could be saved, he is the only one who could.


Christ beyed the law of love, in doing so, as he said he fulfilled the law

christ did not look To the law. he looked to his father, I suggest you do the same

different things may help different people. and all scripture is there at our disposal to use or not.


some may see one way, and other's will say no! i do not see that. i see it this way over here. but God knows everything and sees all the ways of seeing for what they are.

and it could be that He gave us many Scriptures to help many kinds of people. to help build us up in Christ - where we are at.

if we didn't need building up to become more like Christ then there would be no use or need for churches (or scriptures) except to 'save' people.

then there would be no further use for that saved person to ever go to church ( or to read scriptures).

 

[Blik]

different things may help different people. and all scripture is there at our disposal to use or not.


some may see one way, and other's will say no! i do not see that. i see it this way over here. but God knows everything and sees all the ways of seeing for what they are.

and it could be that He gave us many Scriptures to help many kinds of people. to help build us up in Christ - where we are at.

if we didn't need building up to become more like Christ then there would be no use or need for churches (or scriptures) except to 'save' people.

then there would be no further use for that saved person to ever go to church ( or to read scriptures).

Thank you for this, reminding me. Every post should be to build, never to tear down. We are to turn the other cheek, not hit back.

 

[Ogom]

Thank you for this, reminding me. Every post should be to build, never to tear down. We are to turn the other cheek, not hit back.

you're welcome. a tough goal to always bring about it can be.

though i did not mean in that way i guess. i think we are all on kinda different pages, and that there are reasons for it.


Hebrews 6:1

1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

(when we believed/believe in Christ we repented/repent from doing whatever we feel like - dead works. works not of God or of Spirit)

8
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

(those not repenting though the believed in Christ)

10
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

(work/works can be good, God sees and remembers good that we do)

14
Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

15
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

(work out your own salvation with fear and trembling)


AMPC
Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ).

 

[Blik]

you're welcome. a tough goal to always bring about it can be.

though i did not mean in that way i guess. i think we are all on kinda different pages, and that there are reasons for it.


Hebrews 6:1

1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

(when we believed/believe in Christ we repented/repent from doing whatever we feel like - dead works. works not of God or of Spirit)

8
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

(those not repenting though the believed in Christ)

10
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

(work/works can be good, God sees and remembers good that we do)

14
Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.

15
And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.

(work out your own salvation with fear and trembling)


AMPC
Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ).

, In other words, be humble before the Lord, always striving for the Lord who lives within when we give ourselves to Him. The Lord loves us all equally, warts and all, and if we have the Lord within we love others.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The bible clearly teaches that salvation is through grace not works.

As long as Christians are also mindful that those who are saved by grace must be diligent to maintain good works, for which they were ordained (Eph 2:8-10). This is the FULL GOSPEL.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Such a play on words. Christ showed us that if we obey the rules without love we are not obeying the law. You say "the law is not love".
Every law the Lord has given us has been based on love.

The law tells us what sin is and points us to the need for Christ, and you change this into "the law is not grace". Quite a play on words. It is using facts to twist facts.

You confused,

jesus Said two commands fulfill the law, we Call it the law of love, if we are obeying those two commands, by practice you will not break the law,

your trying to follow a law that condemns you Where you are, it can not do what you want it to do because it was not made for that purpose

 

[eternally-gratefull]

different things may help different people. and all scripture is there at our disposal to use or not.


some may see one way, and other's will say no! i do not see that. i see it this way over here. but God knows everything and sees all the ways of seeing for what they are.

and it could be that He gave us many Scriptures to help many kinds of people. to help build us up in Christ - where we are at.

if we didn't need building up to become more like Christ then there would be no use or need for churches (or scriptures) except to 'save' people.

then there would be no further use for that saved person to ever go to church ( or to read scriptures).

The law was given to be a schoolmaster a tool to lead us to Christ,

once we have arrived, we have no further need of a schoolmaster (the apostle Paul)

if people are still trying to learn about Christ by trying to follow the law. Then

1. if they are saved, they will never grow,
2. most likely, they have not found christ yet, in which case, why not? (Most likely is because they think thenlaw is what makes them worthy of Christs love)

neither prospect is good

i have studied it to see things, and to know wan remind me where I was.. but I do not try to follow it I can
t no one can, as Jesus said, no one is good but God,, I will follow it one day, when I am in heaven, when I can give perfect agape love Like Christ did

until then, I would be foolish to follow a law that only purpose is to condemn me where i stand

 

[eternally-gratefull]

, In other words, be humble before the Lord, always striving for the Lord who lives within when we give ourselves to Him. The Lord loves us all equally, warts and all, and if we have the Lord within we love others.

The lord also chastens

one aspect of love we find in 1 corinthians is that love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, the church of Corinth had joy and were proud because a member slept with his fathers wife, in lack of love, they did not discipline that man.

jesus when a man asked him him what he had to do to receive eternal life, asked gave him parts of thenlaw. And the main claimed he had obeyed the law all his life. Jesus reply was that he had one thing against him, he needed him to sell all he had, which made the man sad, because he was rich.

1. Jesus showed him he did not obey the law, he loved money more than God and money was his idol Like all of us, he has broken the first command, hence by law he was cursed, because cursed is anyone who does not confirm and obey every word,

2. Jesus in love chastened him, he put truth right up to him, and the guy should have repented, we can only hope he repented later and came to Christ, but the point is, Jesus showed him love, imagin If Jesus did not rebuke him, imagine if he told him good, keep following the law, it will get you there? The man would have continued the wrong path, he would have continued to believe the law could make him righteous and fail to see, he has not kept the law. And as such is cursed, and would never have been led to Christ, in this case, the law would have failed to do its jobs

sometimes we need someone to love us and point out to us something that is dangerous to us, because if they just turn away and walk away, claiming that is the loving thing to do, they have I. Reality hurt the one who is needs chastened

 

[notuptome]

As long as Christians are also mindful that those who are saved by grace must be diligent to maintain good works, for which they were ordained (Eph 2:8-10). This is the FULL GOSPEL.

It is Christ working through us not us working for Him. Eph 2:10 we are His workmanship created IN Christ to good works. As branches we hold or display the fruit that the vine produces.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Explain how in the world it is possible for works to separate you from grace? Does working for the Lord as a saved person mean that the Lord will take our salvation from us because we act as persons with Christ within? You don't make sense.

If you are truly against working for the Lord, then you are against Christ. When Christ is within, the holy spirit leads us to acting like Christ is within.

Why do you insist in adorning the grace of God with the filthy rags of your righteousness? By grace apart from works so there will be no boasting. Paul counted all his righteousness all his good deeds as dung for Christ. What does it mean to pour contempt on all our pride?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ogom]

The law was given to be a schoolmaster a tool to lead us to Christ,

in each way that we have obeyed the law/laws of God and Christ, or walked in them and continue in that way or ways (until the Spirit leads us otherwise) we have come to Christ and God in that way/ways or are already in Christ and God.

once we have arrived, we have no further need of a schoolmaster (the apostle Paul)

have we come to Christ completely already in this life (such a short time) so that we have no further need of growth into Christ-likeness so having rested (completely) from our (own) works (no longer missing the marks - in any way) we now stand and walk completely in The Ways of God and Christ each moment as led (completely) by the Spirit?.

if so, we have no need to grow up into Christ, no need of Church or Scriptures, no need of other Christians, no need that Any teach us anything. for we have Put on Christ, we have entered the Rest of God. we have ceased from our Own works (have ceased from sin). we do indeed Stand in Christ and walk with Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

in each way that we have obeyed the law/laws of God and Christ, or walked in them and continue in that way or ways (until the Spirit leads us otherwise) we have come to Christ and God in that way/ways or are already in Christ and God.




have we come to Christ completely already in this life (such a short time) so that we have no further need of growth into Christ-likeness so having rested (completely) from our (own) works (no longer missing the marks - in any way) we now stand and walk completely in The Ways of God and Christ each moment as led (completely) by the Spirit?.

if so, we have no need to grow up into Christ, no need of Church or Scriptures, no need of other Christians, no need that Any teach us anything. for we have Put on Christ, we have entered the Rest of God. we have ceased from our Own works (have ceased from sin). we do indeed Stand in Christ and walk with Him.

Have we come to Christ? If you have not been born again no, if you were born again and annointed sealed by the spirit yes

if your born again, you need to look at what you need to do to mature in Christ, the law can not help you there, it was not designed for that purpose

if you have not come to Christ, you better heed the law. because if you do not come to Christ before you die, you will suffer the curse of the law. Which is eternal death

the choice is yours

 

[Yahshua]

(the laws) are not made to show one how to live

Indeed they were, but they can't MAKE a person live rightly by them or make them become right when found guilty by them. They have no power to save.

That’s YOUR neighbor
Jesus show d your neighbor is everyone you come in contact whether it is your next door neighbor or a neighboring country
that law you just stated is not all encompasing

The Messiah didn't come to destroy the law or prophets but to fulfill: to fill up to full. He explained the full meaning of the laws. He taught the full intention of what was articulated through Moses so that others stopped looking for loopholes and started loving.


Matthew 22:36-40 [brackets mine]
Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second [greatest in the law] is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18
Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

I don't even know what we're discussing anymore because we see that the Messiah taught the two greatest commandments of love and they're found in the law, as testified by Matthew 22:36-40.

Shouldn't that be the end of the matter?