Replacement theology.

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Nov 23, 2013
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This is one of the worst explanations I have ever heard. It makes the prophecy resemble a prophesy from nostridomus than a prophet of God

But at least thanks for trying after all this time

It still does not fit. Not even close to reality.

On the day I remove your sins will take you from the nations

That is the restoration. Not babylon
I expected this reply and that's why I'm hesitant to respond to anything from you that requires time and effort.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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1 who said a new nation would be born? I mean really?
2 the mention of seasons is in reference to his return. Not anything else

Do you make this stuff up as you go?
How about showing the Old Testament scripture that says Jesus returns in the summer.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I expected this reply and that's why I'm hesitant to respond to anything from you that requires time and effort.
Time and effort?

How hard is it to post a verse. And say this is what it means to say I understand it says on the day I take your sin I will do this this and that?

People make things kite
Difficult than it needs to be

Also. We have already been over the Babylon issue and the cross issue. So we did But need to revisit that that was already addressed

You have a timeline issue. Whether you want to see It or nit that’s in you
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
How about showing the Old Testament scripture that says Jesus returns in the summer.
Who said anything about Jesus returning in the summer?

The three questions asked were

When will this happen (the destruction of the temple

What will be the sign if the end of the age

And what will be the sign of your return

Jesus used summer here as an example. When you see these signs. You know summer is near
in the same manner when you see the signs I give you know that time is near
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It could be argue so. But the covenant of Grace came with Abraham.
It could

it could also be argued the covenant if grace came with Adam. Which I would be more Inclined to believe since all men of all ages have been saved based on Grace
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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It could

it could also be argued the covenant if grace came with Adam. Which I would be more Inclined to believe since all men of all ages have been saved based on Grace
Yes.
To this day Judaism believes that their sins must be forgiven through grace, they believe in a Messiah, they just do not believe Christ was the Messiah.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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Absolutely you must be born again....no doubt.....
And the only way is through God.

In 70 a.d. southern Jerusalem was the last to be scattered throughout the nations as God had prophetically spoken.

In 1947-48 as God had promised Israel became a state in one day. Returning to the land known as Palestine now known as Israel.
The media as well as the world expressed this as Israel is reborn again.
Only by the hand of god could this ever had taken place. Today we see Israel being fruitful and blossoming
Economically as the jews are returning from all over the globe. Giving heed to jesus saying "when the fig tree blossoms know that the time is near.
In revelation we see that Israel is sealed by the tribes ....12000 from each. God knows where the tribes are and reestablishes them......why.
They become the most powerful evangelical nation the world has ever seen.
Calling on the name of the Lord once again in the name of Jesus.
Many jews today along with muslims are being saved today through the efforts of the ministry of the church in the middle east.
Embracing the gospel and the words of Yeshua and spreading the good news.
The time will come when the counting of the omer is complete and God will pour his spirit out on all flesh again.
The times of the gentiles will be fulfilled and removed from the earth. First fruits wave offering.
Anti-christ will come against Israel to destroy it once and for all because he has declared he is God.
Jesus come to save Israel...as was his first mission.

Imo the rapture triggers Israel change of heart. As God had said to provoke to jealousy.
I see the scriptures much differently. What prophecy are you referring to where Israel would become a nation in 1948?
 

Journeyman

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Jan 10, 2019
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Church in the Greek speaks of a gathering ekklesia
Yes, a gathering of called out ones, OT and NT believers,

gather together in one all things in Christ, both[fn]which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. Eph.1:10
 
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pottersclay

Guest
I see the scriptures much differently. What prophecy are you referring to where Israel would become a nation in 1948?
I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.
Jeremiah 30:1-31:40 ESV / 73 helpful votes
The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Write in a book all the words that I have spoken to you. For behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will restore the fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah, says the Lord, and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall take possession of it.” These are the words that the Lord spoke concerning Israel and Judah: “Thus says the Lord: We have heard a cry of panic, of terror, and no peace. ...
Isaiah 11:12 ESV / 57 helpful votes
He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 43:5-6 ESV / 50 helpful votes
Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you. I will say to the north, Give up, and to the south, Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth,
Isaiah 66:8 ESV / 42 helpful votes
Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children.
Deuteronomy 30:3 ESV / 39 helpful votes
Then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Paul told us straight up! Need to read his Epistles.

God did not break His Covenant with the Jews. THEY BROKE IT when they denied the promised Messiah.
.
I wonder what the Lord thinks of that they still believe in a Messiah, they still believe the Lord must forgive their sins because they are human so can not handle their sin without grace? They say Christ was not the Messiah, they are blinded to that by the Lord, but does the Lord recognize that they believe in grace and a Messiah? Scripture tells us God will never forsake them, could this be why? Or will God never forsake them only because they were the caretakers of the word when no nation would do that?
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
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I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.
Jeremiah 30:1-31:40 ESV / 73 helpful votes
The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: Write in a book all the words that I have spoken to you. For behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will restore the fortunes of my people, Israel and Judah, says the Lord, and I will bring them back to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall take possession of it.” These are the words that the Lord spoke concerning Israel and Judah: “Thus says the Lord: We have heard a cry of panic, of terror, and no peace. ...
Isaiah 11:12 ESV / 57 helpful votes
He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 43:5-6 ESV / 50 helpful votes
Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you. I will say to the north, Give up, and to the south, Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth,
Isaiah 66:8 ESV / 42 helpful votes
Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? Shall a nation be brought forth in one moment? For as soon as Zion was in labor she brought forth her children.
Deuteronomy 30:3 ESV / 39 helpful votes
Then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you.
There's too much here to go through all at once, but lets go through the passages you cited one at a time.

Jer.30:3-For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah.

Being released from captivity according to Jesus is freedom from the bondage of sin and death.

The Prophet goes on to speak of "the time of Jacobs trouble and how in that day, God will break the yoke of the oppressor from off the neck of his people.

The time of Jacobs trouble is unparallele, a day that no oth is like. This is not because of the number of people being persecuted, but because of who is being persecuted, which is Jesus, God in flesh, who then rose from the dead, thereby destroying the works of the devil.

Jeremiah is not saying that after this, the Jews will grow grapes in the Middle East. He's saying after this, God's people will become fruitful because they will abide in the Vine, who is Christ.

I didn't cite the NT passages where Jesus and the Apostles taught this, because you already know what the NT says. You're just not applying their knowledge to the OT.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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1 who said a new nation would be born? I mean really?
2 the mention of seasons is in reference to his return. Not anything else

Do you make this stuff up as you go?
There's too much here to go through all at once, but lets go through the passages you cited one at a time.

Jer.30:3-For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah.

Being released from captivity according to Jesus is freedom from the bondage of sin and death.

The Prophet goes on to speak of "the time of Jacobs trouble and how in that day, God will break the yoke of the oppressor from off the neck of his people.

The time of Jacobs trouble is unparallele, a day that no oth is like. This is not because of the number of people being persecuted, but because of who is being persecuted, which is Jesus, God in flesh, who then rose from the dead, thereby destroying the works of the devil.

Jeremiah is not saying that after this, the Jews will grow grapes in the Middle East. He's saying after this, God's people will become fruitful because they will abide in the Vine, who is Christ.

I didn't cite the NT passages where Jesus and the Apostles taught this, because you already know what the NT says. You're just not applying their knowledge to the OT.
Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
Jer 30:8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
Jer 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

All of the things in Jeremiah 30 happened during the time of Jacob's trouble. At that time, the yoke between Jacob and Esau was broken off. Esau represents the first born, flesh descendants and Jacob represents the 2nd born, spiritual descendants.

The spiritual Jews have always been under the yoke of bondage of the unsaved Jews UNTIL that yoke was broken at the cross and the flesh descendants were utterly destroyed in AD 70. Jacob will never be under Esau's yoke of bondage ever again.

All of that happened when David their king, Jesus Christ, came and set up his eternal kingdom.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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I wonder what the Lord thinks of that they still believe in a Messiah, they still believe the Lord must forgive their sins because they are human so can not handle their sin without grace? They say Christ was not the Messiah, they are blinded to that by the Lord, but does the Lord recognize that they believe in grace and a Messiah? Scripture tells us God will never forsake them, could this be why? Or will God never forsake them only because they were the caretakers of the word when no nation would do that?
God has promised never to forsake believing Jews. There are viable reasons why some believe in grace and the coming Messiah, without the knowledge that he came already.

The Jewish guy who taught me was such a person, simply because talk about Jesus was forbidden in his house when he was growing up and anything having to do with Jesus outside the house was also forbidden. He never went to any Christian church, but did one day read the NT. It was then that he believed Jesus is the Messiah, because he saw in the teachings of Christ the teachings of his Torah and amazing insight of the NT because he knew the OT very wrll.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
There's too much here to go through all at once, but lets go through the passages you cited one at a time.

Jer.30:3-For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah.

Being released from captivity according to Jesus is freedom from the bondage of sin and death.

The Prophet goes on to speak of "the time of Jacobs trouble and how in that day, God will break the yoke of the oppressor from off the neck of his people.

The time of Jacobs trouble is unparallele, a day that no oth is like. This is not because of the number of people being persecuted, but because of who is being persecuted, which is Jesus, God in flesh, who then rose from the dead, thereby destroying the works of the devil.

Jeremiah is not saying that after this, the Jews will grow grapes in the Middle East. He's saying after this, God's people will become fruitful because they will abide in the Vine, who is Christ.

I didn't cite the NT passages where Jesus and the Apostles taught this, because you already know what the NT says. You're just not applying their knowledge to the OT.
What your missing here is the final destruction of 70 ad which jesus prophied.
As God gives out his prophecy he is very specific about the event or events.
He said in one day Israel will become a nation again.
In 1948 in one day Israel once again becomes a reconised nation after almost 2thousand yrs.
What other nation has done this after 2 thousand yrs of no land and terrible persecution.
Let alone the fact that they are economically fruitful right now.... independent.

Jacobs trouble is found in the book of revelation. In fact that's what revelation is about.
Mor than 2 thirds of revelation is about the jews not about the saints because our time is fulfilled.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
Jer 30:8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
Jer 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

All of the things in Jeremiah 30 happened during the time of Jacob's trouble. At that time, the yoke between Jacob and Esau was broken off. Esau represents the first born, flesh descendants and Jacob represents the 2nd born, spiritual descendants.

The spiritual Jews have always been under the yoke of bondage of the unsaved Jews UNTIL that yoke was broken at the cross and the flesh descendants were utterly destroyed in AD 70. Jacob will never be under Esau's yoke of bondage ever again.

All of that happened when David their king, Jesus Christ, came and set up his eternal kingdom.
Your symbolic interpretation of prophetic scripture makes God a nobody he can’t tell Us things that will happen, they are all must parables, which anyone can make say whatever they want
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Your symbolic interpretation of prophetic scripture makes God a nobody he can’t tell Us things that will happen, they are all must parables, which anyone can make say whatever they want
There's no parable about it. Easu have I HATED but Jacob have I loved. It doesn't take a college degree to figure who represents who.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
There's no parable about it. Easu have I HATED but Jacob have I loved. It doesn't take a college degree to figure who represents who.
you are not Jacob. And you never will be. I am. It either. I am part of one of the nations that through Abraham was promised to be blessed
 
Nov 23, 2013
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you are not Jacob. And you never will be. I am. It either. I am part of one of the nations that through Abraham was promised to be blessed
I don’t you have any understanding of the yoke between Jacob and Esau.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I don’t you have any understanding of the yoke between Jacob and Esau.
I don’t have your skewed view no

Esau is dead, and so is hi nation, it does not exist anymore

Jacob lives, as long as their is a remnant he will always live