Is it OK to question church doctrine?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#81
You mentioned the importance of eternity and unity of the whole of Salvation history. When Jesus was conceived eternity entered time and history. In Him we enter a world that is eternal. For Him the world never ends.
No more seven day creation it will in an instant, when the elements of this world burn up in the light of the New Day, give way to the eternal day. Because when Our Saviour came, eternity entered time and history. Jesus changed the world by His Presence.
John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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#82
His Instructor was Rabbi Gamaliel
Actually like Calibob said, Paul was the Lords disciple to the Gentiles.

that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
(Rom 15:16)

 
Aug 14, 2019
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#83
Actually like Calibob said, Paul was the Lords disciple to the Gentiles.

that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
(Rom 15:16)

They are just two facts that are both true about Paul. I find it interesting that Saul didn't share his instructors view about how to handle the Judeo-Christian movement.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#84
His Instructor was Rabbi Gamaliel who advised the Jewish council concerning the Christian sect; If it's false it will die on it's own. If it's from God there is nothing that will stop it. Definitely a voice of reason and was famous for his wisdom.
So what? His true ministry and calling didn't occur until he went to Ananias in Damascus. Christianity trumps Judaism ever since Jesus rose from the dead!

Here's what happened after Saul was blinded and led to Damascus
Ananias Baptizes Saul; Acts 9:

10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord spoke to him in a vision, “Ananias!

“Here I am, Lord, he answered.

11“Get up! the Lord told him. “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.

13But Ananias answered, “Lord, many people have told me about this man and all the harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14And now he is here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on Your name.

15Go!" said the Lord. "This man is My chosen instrument to carry My name before the Gentiles and their kings, and before the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for My name."


Pauls' most important Rabbi was Jesus (of Nazareth) Christ himself. What he (Saul) was before, he was no longer, after he was saved!
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
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#85
So what? His true ministry and calling didn't occur until he went to Ananias in Damascus. Christianity trumps Judaism ever since Jesus rose from the dead!

Here's what happened after Saul was blinded and led to Damascus
Ananias Baptizes Saul; Acts 9:

10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord spoke to him in a vision, “Ananias!

“Here I am, Lord, he answered.

11“Get up! the Lord told him. “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.

13But Ananias answered, “Lord, many people have told me about this man and all the harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14And now he is here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on Your name.

15Go!" said the Lord. "This man is My chosen instrument to carry My name before the Gentiles and their kings, and before the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he mustsuffer for My name."


Pauls' most important Rabbi was Jesus (of Nazareth) Christ himself. What he (Saul) was before, he was no longer, after he was saved!
You brought up his education before his conversion. I offered a tid-bit in support. For some reason it is treated as a rebuttal of some sort.:unsure:
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
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#87

Pauls' most important Rabbi was Jesus (of Nazareth) Christ himself. What he (Saul) was before, he was no longer, after he was saved!
There was something that Paul was as he was as Saul. Paul retained Saul's thorough knowledge of the old testament. Paul knew all that Christ fulfilled, thoroughtly. As Paul, it is something of Saul that the Lord used.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#88
There was something that Paul was as he was as Saul. Paul retained Saul's thorough knowledge of the old testament. Paul knew all that Christ fulfilled, thoroughtly. As Paul, it is something of Saul that the Lord used.
Yes, definitely so. @Magenta and I once shared about the time the Apostilles decided to vote for a replacement for Judas the traitor although, Jesus said that another would come. We think that the Lord was preparing Saul, in a way. However he wasn't ready yet. IMO; It was only after he witnessed the drama that occurred in Acts 7:57-59 and heard as well as wittnessed the faith of Stephen. That must have had an effect on Saul.

Berean Study Bible
The Stoning of Stephen
57At this they covered their ears, cried out in a loud voice, and rushed together at him. 58 They dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile the witnesses laid their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59While they were stoning him, Stephen appealed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”…

So in Acts 9 when the Lord came to Saul Saul repented of the horrible things he had been a part of and done.

1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord. He approached the high priest 2and requested letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any men or women belonging to the Way, he could bring them as prisoners to Jerusalem.

3 As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?

5“Who are You, Lord? Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting, He replied. 6“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.

7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless. They heard the voice but did not see anyone.

So that's probay why he later wrote in 1 Timothy 1: 15This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst. 16But for this very reason I was shown mercy, so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display His perfect patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.…
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#89
this would of course entail your own definition of just what The True Church IS,
and where you have placed yourself in IT...

we advise; READ and LEARN who and what the True Church IS...
if you can commit yourself to this endeavor, then you will for sure FIND
many answers that you are seeking and many answers that you have not yet asked...
as it is written:
1THESS. 5:21.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
11TIM. 2:15.
Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing The Word of Truth.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#90
this would of course entail your own definition of just what The True Church IS,
and where you have placed yourself in IT...
To whom were you asking? The true church is the living Christ shared amoung us.;

Matthew 16:“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades c will not overcome it.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#92
MATT. 24:5.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I Am Christ; and shall deceive many.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#93
oh yes Cal,
for there are so many on the 'false-side' as opposed to the 'true-side'...
how grievous is this?
oh how we thank/praise Jesus for the giving of His Grace to help us to
to discern...
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
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Anaheim, Cali.
#94
oh yes Cal,
for there are so many on the 'false-side' as opposed to the 'true-side'...
how grievous is this?
oh how we thank/praise Jesus for the giving of His Grace to help us to
to discern...
The RCC gives Simon/Peter the credit for starting the first Christian church of Rome. However Saul/Paul was was the first Disciple to the Gentiles and wrote the letter to the Romans in Greek, not Latin. :geek:
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,665
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Tennessee
#97
Oh, I thought that; In the big inning, was about the first baseball game. :unsure::LOL:
I first heard that in an episode of Little House On The Prairie years ago, Charles Ingalls told that joke to his little daughter Laura.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
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Anaheim, Cali.
#98
I first heard that in an episode of Little House On The Prairie years ago, Charles Ingalls told that joke to his little daughter Laura.
I heard it from a Deacon who was trying to make a point that God has a sense of humor.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
3,679
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#99
They are just two facts that are both true about Paul. I find it interesting that Saul didn't share his instructors view about how to handle the Judeo-Christian movement.
Paul shared all that his Instructor showed him...

But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. "And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more. Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.
(Act 20:24-27)