Works righteousness.
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To tie this back to the subject; assuming for a moment she's wrong, there are remedies in the law on how to treat one who doesn't take correction.
Hypothetically, do you think following those instructions for this situation would be denying the work of Christ and acting pharisaic?
Also, if Christ does all the work in us, why haven't we - who have confessed Christ - automatically done what was instructed in (i.e. fulfilled) the law, or at the very least acted in love in this very situation?
Shall we remain righteous in our conversations even during such a temptation to act differently or is this a situation that's excluded from how we are to act?
Im asking more so rhetorically to keep the conversation going. This isn't an interrogation
Hypothetically, do you think following those instructions for this situation would be denying the work of Christ and acting pharisaic?
Also, if Christ does all the work in us, why haven't we - who have confessed Christ - automatically done what was instructed in (i.e. fulfilled) the law, or at the very least acted in love in this very situation?
Shall we remain righteous in our conversations even during such a temptation to act differently or is this a situation that's excluded from how we are to act?
Im asking more so rhetorically to keep the conversation going. This isn't an interrogation
E
not sure what she has to do with her failing to understand what others are saying
I think I stated it before
Do we do grow in christ by following rules, the same rules which Paul said caused sin to increase, and caused death, and does not even show us how to obey or what it looks like to disobay
or following Gods example, using the grace mercy and forgiveness he gave to us (LOVE) and taking this love (we love because he first loved us) and learning to serve and love others?
I think I stated it before
Do we do grow in christ by following rules, the same rules which Paul said caused sin to increase, and caused death, and does not even show us how to obey or what it looks like to disobay
or following Gods example, using the grace mercy and forgiveness he gave to us (LOVE) and taking this love (we love because he first loved us) and learning to serve and love others?
I think my point is there's a difference between scholarship and application. It's all well and good to say we take The Messiah's love to love others but then it actually means when given the opportunity to, we choose to love others in deed. Not through personal attacks, mockery, and the like.
In terms of growing in Christ by following the His instructions; yes actually, that is what we're told the instructions are for:
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
That includes the rules. So it stands to reason if one isn't using the rules but consciously staying away from all of it, they aren't training and growing in righteousness, the fruit of which always shows through words and deeds.
Paul was explaining the situation we were in before Christ, when he speaks about sin increasing at the prividing of the Law. It's the result of the law being provided first. But As sin increased, grace increased so that grace can reign through the Messiah.
Roman's 5:20-21
20The law came in so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
...now note exactly what Paul says next. Remove chapter breaks because he was writing a letter...
Romans 6:1-2
1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
This is the state after the work of the Messiah. We are to walk/live righteously and not sin after faith in the Messiah, which brings us back to training in righteousness.
In terms of growing in Christ by following the His instructions; yes actually, that is what we're told the instructions are for:
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
That includes the rules. So it stands to reason if one isn't using the rules but consciously staying away from all of it, they aren't training and growing in righteousness, the fruit of which always shows through words and deeds.
Paul was explaining the situation we were in before Christ, when he speaks about sin increasing at the prividing of the Law. It's the result of the law being provided first. But As sin increased, grace increased so that grace can reign through the Messiah.
Roman's 5:20-21
20The law came in so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
...now note exactly what Paul says next. Remove chapter breaks because he was writing a letter...
Romans 6:1-2
1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
This is the state after the work of the Messiah. We are to walk/live righteously and not sin after faith in the Messiah, which brings us back to training in righteousness.
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E
is not continually mocking and misrepresenting what others are saying a personal attack?
thing is we all love to judge the one calling out people who all things like that out, but everyone seems afraid to call the ones who are doing it out.
maybe if we all,stood up to those who are misrepresenting, they may see the truth about what they are doing and repent?
yet jesus told us how this is done does he not?
did he not say two commands encompass the whole law?
what happens to a child who breaks his fathers rules? when the father does not show love but is demanding. Do this or else,,, The child is afraid, so he hides it, he hopes he does not get caught, eventually, if he continues to get away with it, he is in denial,
what happens when the child fails, yet he knows his father is a father of love? His father will discipline, it his father also will forgive, that child can go to his father, admit or confess his sin, and his father proves his love, next time that child is tempted, he is not so quick to fall, he remembers his fathers love, honors his father, and out of love for his father, (not the command) he has victory
does the father want sinlessness? Yes! It is for our own God,
is he going to stop loving us because we can not achieve this state? No, because he knows we can’t achieve this state, and if we think we can, he inspired the apostle john To let us know we are decieved,
legalism is dangerous. No matter who preaches it or in what context
thing is we all love to judge the one calling out people who all things like that out, but everyone seems afraid to call the ones who are doing it out.
maybe if we all,stood up to those who are misrepresenting, they may see the truth about what they are doing and repent?
yet jesus told us how this is done does he not?
did he not say two commands encompass the whole law?
what happens to a child who breaks his fathers rules? when the father does not show love but is demanding. Do this or else,,, The child is afraid, so he hides it, he hopes he does not get caught, eventually, if he continues to get away with it, he is in denial,
what happens when the child fails, yet he knows his father is a father of love? His father will discipline, it his father also will forgive, that child can go to his father, admit or confess his sin, and his father proves his love, next time that child is tempted, he is not so quick to fall, he remembers his fathers love, honors his father, and out of love for his father, (not the command) he has victory
does the father want sinlessness? Yes! It is for our own God,
is he going to stop loving us because we can not achieve this state? No, because he knows we can’t achieve this state, and if we think we can, he inspired the apostle john To let us know we are decieved,
legalism is dangerous. No matter who preaches it or in what context
Don’t twist my words pussycat. Be truthful and honest, then I will continue further conversation with you. However if you continue to manipulate my words to fit your false narrative the way you do with the words of so many others, I will no longer have said dialogue with you. The choice is yours; I really couldn’t care either way.
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The Messiah instructs to take the person privately and air out the grievance first. If it's not heeded to take a witness that at the mouth of two witnesses may the matter be established. After that, if it keeps happening ignore them.
Those who openly called others out were what the pharisees did.
It's not about being afraid. It's about operating in the love we claim to have inside. The fact that we can choose against that love inside shows it's not automatic, that we have work to do. Effort to put in to resist operating in our flesh. This is exactly the point proponents of work after salvation have been making.
Respectfully, you are projecting a father from this world onto the heavenly Father. Our father so loved the world to give His Son, but our Father is still a holy God.
Also, a child who is in love with their father would never be afraid of him. Remember, the Father punished His only Son who never sinned against Him, and the Son welcomed it because of His immense love for His Father.
^ This is the very love that's in the believer. The Son's love.
There isn't a war between demanding rules be followed and love. Demanding rules be followed isn't "not showing love". He literally says "if you love me keep my commandments."
I actually agree with this portion...
What does it mean to have the love of the Messiah in one's heart?
Well to me it means, just like the Messiah, I will WANT to please the Father in all the ways and will all the effort and strength I can muster in this body, just like the Messiah did. It also means, I will want to love my neighbor AND my enemies in all the ways I myself would want love from them.
This means when I read an instruction or commandment, though my flesh groans and yawns at it my heart leaps to try my best to do it, because the love in my heart is the Son's love.
It means when I sin I feel personally destroyed and dejected in my heart feeling I've disappointed the Father because the love in my heart is the Son's love.
It means I confess my sin and afterward I am MOTIVATED; supercharged to do better next time; to win and persevere and defeat the temptation, because the love in my heart is the Son's love.
It means when I am angered or offended by another person, I think what I would want from them if the situation were reversed, wanting the Father proud of me, because the love in my heart is the Son's love...not my love.
Does this happen perfectly every day? No. But it's supposed to happen more and more as I sin less and less.
The Son never said, "my Father works so I don't have to work".
The Son said, "my Father works and so too I work".
That's the Son's love inside this flesh motivating me to work.
This portion I don't agree with at all because (a) no one has said such a thing about losing the Father's love at all anywhere here (and such would be the very misrepresenting you've been accusing others of), and (b) because it's incorrectly referencing what John is said about confessing sin.
The subject was about confessing sin. He's saying those who say they have no sin TO CONFESS are liars. When a person believes all their future sins have been forgiven/cleansed, even before they've committed them, they are in fact saying they have no sin to confess.
Confessing our sins are supposed to be part of our daily prayers as instructed by the Messiah.
Those who openly called others out were what the pharisees did.
It's not about being afraid. It's about operating in the love we claim to have inside. The fact that we can choose against that love inside shows it's not automatic, that we have work to do. Effort to put in to resist operating in our flesh. This is exactly the point proponents of work after salvation have been making.
Respectfully, you are projecting a father from this world onto the heavenly Father. Our father so loved the world to give His Son, but our Father is still a holy God.
Also, a child who is in love with their father would never be afraid of him. Remember, the Father punished His only Son who never sinned against Him, and the Son welcomed it because of His immense love for His Father.
^ This is the very love that's in the believer. The Son's love.
There isn't a war between demanding rules be followed and love. Demanding rules be followed isn't "not showing love". He literally says "if you love me keep my commandments."
I actually agree with this portion...
What does it mean to have the love of the Messiah in one's heart?
Well to me it means, just like the Messiah, I will WANT to please the Father in all the ways and will all the effort and strength I can muster in this body, just like the Messiah did. It also means, I will want to love my neighbor AND my enemies in all the ways I myself would want love from them.
This means when I read an instruction or commandment, though my flesh groans and yawns at it my heart leaps to try my best to do it, because the love in my heart is the Son's love.
It means when I sin I feel personally destroyed and dejected in my heart feeling I've disappointed the Father because the love in my heart is the Son's love.
It means I confess my sin and afterward I am MOTIVATED; supercharged to do better next time; to win and persevere and defeat the temptation, because the love in my heart is the Son's love.
It means when I am angered or offended by another person, I think what I would want from them if the situation were reversed, wanting the Father proud of me, because the love in my heart is the Son's love...not my love.
Does this happen perfectly every day? No. But it's supposed to happen more and more as I sin less and less.
The Son never said, "my Father works so I don't have to work".
The Son said, "my Father works and so too I work".
That's the Son's love inside this flesh motivating me to work.
This portion I don't agree with at all because (a) no one has said such a thing about losing the Father's love at all anywhere here (and such would be the very misrepresenting you've been accusing others of), and (b) because it's incorrectly referencing what John is said about confessing sin.
The subject was about confessing sin. He's saying those who say they have no sin TO CONFESS are liars. When a person believes all their future sins have been forgiven/cleansed, even before they've committed them, they are in fact saying they have no sin to confess.
Confessing our sins are supposed to be part of our daily prayers as instructed by the Messiah.
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I wonder, if I were to say like EG "then you haven't been reading or paying attention", would he side with me to stand on his words, or would he side with your take on my post?
I suppose I could literally say salvation is by grace through faith in the Messiah's work...so that we can do good works...but that would still mean to you that I'm not focused on the Messiah because I added the last part, right?
...Even though every apostle says the very same thing in their writings, as well as the Messiah in the Revelation, right?
I suppose I could literally say salvation is by grace through faith in the Messiah's work...so that we can do good works...but that would still mean to you that I'm not focused on the Messiah because I added the last part, right?
...Even though every apostle says the very same thing in their writings, as well as the Messiah in the Revelation, right?
E
paul called out peter public ally when he public ally sinned. Sorry not buying your cop out
we have not been given a spirit of fear but of a sound mind, we have not been given a spirit of fear but an Abba father.
sorry, but Kids who love their parents do follow them, but they also sin
we can not agree at all
john was not talking about confessing sink he said if we say we have no sin we are decieved
and when we do sin (and we will). We have an advocate
if your teaching sinless perfection. Your no different than the Pharisees
we have not been given a spirit of fear but of a sound mind, we have not been given a spirit of fear but an Abba father.
sorry, but Kids who love their parents do follow them, but they also sin
we can not agree at all
john was not talking about confessing sink he said if we say we have no sin we are decieved
and when we do sin (and we will). We have an advocate
if your teaching sinless perfection. Your no different than the Pharisees
You keep railing that you and others are SO misnderstood, so abused, but never any attempt to clear up this misunderstanding. You don't seem to consider the scripture being discussed, but only how abused you are. You abuse others so extremely that you state you want rid of her, want her eliminated, and your abuse of her is based on she misunderstands. No attempt is made to clear your point. Just get the person you accuse of misunderstanding away from this life.
You want rid of, another person eliminated, based on that you have been so abused. Then you speak of love? ????
You want rid of, another person eliminated, based on that you have been so abused. Then you speak of love? ????
E
The misunderstanding is clear. You have been shown numerous times what they are point blank. Yet you keep ignoring and denying you do anything wrong
how can I discuss scripture with you? Discussion has to come when 2 people understand what the other is saying, until you show you can do this, there can be no discussion
how can I discuss scripture with you? Discussion has to come when 2 people understand what the other is saying, until you show you can do this, there can be no discussion
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