Works righteousness.

[mailmandan]

Do you actually think that the Lord wants us to not keep His commands? After all, to you, keeping them would only be "in order to keep ourselves cleansed". What a terrible walk with the Lord you prescribe.

Do you realize you are working to haver people keep sin in their lives, not for salvation?

 

[bud62]

Those who peddle salvation by works typically cite all the same passages of scripture that you continue to cite. Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust" with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside. Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

*Notice - Brethren, if anyone "among" you wanders from the truth..turns a "sinner" from the error of his way.. Some would argue that James says this one who turned from the truth was a "sinner," and was "among" but "not of" the Brethren, then he wasn’t previously saved. That fits 1 John 2:19 - They went out "from" us, but they were "not of" us..

IF this person was a genuine believer, yet how do we know for sure this is the second death in the lake of fire? In Matthew 26:38, Jesus said: "My soul [psuche] is deeply grieved, to the point of death." Jesus was not saying that His soul was deeply grieved to the point of spiritual death, Rather, Jesus was talking about physical death, his human life. In Revelation 16:3, "The second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became blood like that of a dead man; and every living soul [psuche] in the sea died".

"Soul" is rendered from the Greek word "psuche" and is also translated as "life". The word "psuche" is never translated as "spirit." In 1 Corinthians 5:5, we read - I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (no second death).

Jesus covered our sins in one way (Romans 4:7) by bringing forgiveness for all believers, yet sins can also be covered in a different way. In Proverbs 10:12, we read: Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins. In 1 Peter 4:8, we read: And above all things have fervent love for one another, for "love will cover a multitude of sins." Where there is strife, there is hatred and unless love prevails, the strife will get worse. Love covers offenses and sins when a believer turns back from error.

So is this wanderer a professing Christian, whose faith is not genuine, or a sinning Christian, who needs to be restored? For the former, the death spoken of in vs. 20 is the "second death" (Revelation 21:8); for the latter, it is physical death (1 Corinthians 11:29-32; 1 John 5:16).

Enduring to the end is descriptive of those who are truly born of God. Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Where does the text say, "fallen brother?" You are reading your own preconceived theology into the text. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved.

The Jews were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved. *Isaiah 43:10 - "You are My witnesses, says the Lord," And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.

*Leviticus 25:55 - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Yet God later destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:5)

*Nehemiah 1:6 - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned.

Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

Ezekiel 18:29 - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die.

Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES.

As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.

SALVATION OBTAINED BY WORKS/SALVATION MAINTAINED BY WORKS WILL CAUSE MANY MANY MANY TO BE LOST.

IT don't Matter, YESUAH tells US IF WE commit sin we are a SERVANT TO SIN,
The BIBLE ALSO says THAT the RIGHTOUS sin not.
Ezekiel 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous [man], that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

 

[Magenta]

Do you actually think that the Lord wants us to not keep His commands? After all, to you, keeping them would only be "in order to keep ourselves cleansed". What a terrible walk with the Lord you prescribe.

How in the world is it a "terrible walk with the Lord" to abstain from sin/desire to stay clean?

 

[bud62]

MEYBE TO you .But I think it is VERY WONDERFUL,
THE commandments is our part of our covenant with GOD, AND GOD SAYS THAT HE WRITES them on our hearts, , think just like he wrote them on the stones. PRAISE GOD, Hallelujah TO YESUAH, SINCERELY William

 

[Blik]

View attachment 223031

Thanks for answering, but I still do not understand why your posts are anything but encouraging us to work for the Lord, suggesting work is something done for salvation only, not a result of salvation. I should think that part of living with Christ within means we devote our life to His ways. Living in sync with the Lord seems to me to be the way to the fruits of the spirit.

 

[Blik]

How in the world is it a "terrible walk with the Lord" to abstain from sin/desire to stay clean?

That is my point, walking with the Lord is a walk of joy, peace, contentment, it is a wonderful good walk. Anything that is not encouraging that walk seems terrible.

 

[bud62]

Thanks for answering, but I still do not understand why your posts are anything but encouraging us to work for the Lord, suggesting work is something done for salvation only, not a result of salvation. I should think that part of living with Christ within means we devote our life to His ways. Living in sync with the Lord seems to me to be the way to the fruits of the spirit.

We can not work to be saved or to have our sin covered, If I was lost, And I said I'm go to keep the commandments, the best that I can, And I kept them, without braking for the rest of MY life, and die, I would be lost still, because I had sin when I started keeping the commandments, and keeping the commandments, can not clean me of the sins that I had before I stared keeping the COMMANDMENTS, But when I GO to YESUAH, And repent AND CONFUS MY SIN TO YESUAH, THEN YESUAH COVERS MY SINS WITH HIS BLOOD, WHICH MAKES ME CLEAN, NOW IF I KEEP the COMMANDMENTS I will stay CLEAN, AND READY FOR YESUAH TO COME, BUT if I commit sin again after I have got clean. THEN I haft to GO BACK TO YESUAH AGAIN TO GET CLEAN AGAIN, BECAUSE KEEPING TO COMMANDMENTS, CAN NOT CLEAN ME AT ALL, YESUAH DIED to pay for the sins that I have committed, HE didn't die so I can keep on sinning, HE WILL NOT SAVE ME IN MY SINS, He wants to save me from MY sins

 

[bud62]

That is my point, walking with the Lord is a walk of joy, peace, contentment, it is a wonderful good walk. Anything that is not encouraging that walk seems terrible.

SO YOU WANT YOUR SINS AND BE SAVED TO, THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN, THAT IS IN A WORSE PLACE, THEN SOMEONE THAT IS LOST, AND DON'T EVEN TO KNOW THE LORD YESUAH, I am SORRY, BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH, AND THE BIBLE TELLS us that IT IS.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

SO YOU WANT YOUR SINS AND BE SAVED TO, THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN, THAT IS IN A WORSE PLACE, THEN SOMEONE THAT IS LOST, AND DON'T EVEN TO KNOW THE LORD YESUAH, I am SORRY, BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH, AND THE BIBLE TELLS us that IT IS.

If you want to think your perfect and be saved, that will not happen, God will not accept self righteousness of people who refuse to repent, and accuse their sins and not being sins at all, those people do not need God and reject him as the one true God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is my point, walking with the Lord is a walk of joy, peace, contentment, it is a wonderful good walk. Anything that is not encouraging that walk seems terrible.

What’s worse

walking in self righteousness thinking your good

or walking with the lord and taking his mercy and forgiveness based on his love and taking it to love others

i will take the second thank you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks for answering, but I still do not understand why your posts are anything but encouraging us to work for the Lord, suggesting work is something done for salvation only, not a result of salvation. I should think that part of living with Christ within means we devote our life to His ways. Living in sync with the Lord seems to me to be the way to the fruits of the spirit.

He as much as told you you have no idea what he thinks.

yet you keep pushing

 

[Jackson123]

Roman 7

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do

1 john 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Roman 7 seem not agree with 1 john 3.

Paul hate what he do.
Paul hate sin but do sin?

John say whosoever born of God not commit sin.

Is that mean Paul not born of God? I don't know, but I notice Paul hate sin though do sin.
Non believer do sin and not hate sin.

Start with hate sin make us less and less sin, and more and more holy.

When Holy Jesus in our heart, we start hate sin, but not free from sin, take time to grow.

People that say, I will rob the bank, anyway jesus die for my sin not hate sin and not save.

 

[Blik]

What’s worse

walking in self righteousness thinking your good

or walking with the lord and taking his mercy and forgiveness based on his love and taking it to love others

i will take the second thank you

Why would anyone slam someone for wanting to live a sinless life by saying if you want that you are being self righteous? Do you advocate, then, wanting to live in sin? You can have it either way but not both at once.

 

[Blik]

or walking with the lord and taking his mercy and forgiveness based on his love and taking it to love others

i will take the second thank you

The Lord can not live with sin, if you want sin instead of the forgiveness that Christ offers, you cannot walk with the sinless Christ who wants to give you freedom from sin.

How can you both love others and accuse them of self righteousness because they want to walk with Christ and accept His mercy and forgiveness?

 

[mailmandan]

Do you actually think that the Lord wants us to not keep His commands?

Sure He does, yet "keep" His commandments for believers does not mean sinless perfection/flawlessly obey the 10 commandments under the law of Moses. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

After all, to you, keeping them would only be "in order to keep ourselves cleansed". What a terrible walk with the Lord you prescribe.

Don't confuse me with bud62.

YES IT is the BLOOD of YESUAH that cleanses US, BUT keeping GOD's COMMANDMENTS, KEEP US CLEAN, after YESUAH CLEANS US,

Do you realize you are working to have people keep sin in their lives, not for salvation?

Your straw man arguments are getting really old.

 

[mailmandan]

IT don't Matter, YESUAH tells US IF WE commit sin we are a SERVANT TO SIN,
The BIBLE ALSO says THAT the RIGHTOUS sin not.

So if we sin at all/fall short of sinless perfection then we are servants to sin? Also, those who are righteous never sin at all? Is that how you interpret Scripture? In a previous post, you said: "And if I do mess up and sin, I have advocate that I can go to, that he may stand in my place AGAIN." So according to your own standard, you are a servant to sin and are not righteous when you mess up and sin. I see that you made no effort to answer my questions from post #233.

You just continue to promote sinless perfection and salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works. A former member of CC who is SDA continues to terrorize a different Christian Forum with his perverted gospel of salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works and his most recent thread is - "Why the Law is a part of the Gospel." I can see that the SDA church does a good job of brain washing it's members!

Ezekiel 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous [man], that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

More sinless perfection nonsense. Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin. Try again. Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

I already covered Ezekiel 18 in post #246.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would anyone slam someone for wanting to live a sinless life by saying if you want that you are being self righteous? Do you advocate, then, wanting to live in sin? You can have it either way but not both at once.

For once in your stay here in CC can you actually read what I am saying? I am sick of you misrepresenting me and not understanding a word I say then coming off with this strawman.
I am about to put you on ignore, unless you can repent and change

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Lord can not live with sin, if you want sin instead of the forgiveness that Christ offers, you cannot walk with the sinless Christ who wants to give you freedom from sin.

How can you both love others and accuse them of self righteousness because they want to walk with Christ and accept His mercy and forgiveness?

Who said I wanted sin?

the post your responding to showed you HOW I LIVE MY LIFE WALKiNG IN GODS LOVE which empowers me to love others (the law of Love)

remember, it was Jesus himself who stated that the commands love God and your neighbor encompassed the whole law.

I am trying to show you HOW to overcome sin, not how it live in it,

its sad you can not comprehend this basic christian fact

 

[Duskey]

Why would anyone slam someone for wanting to live a sinless life by saying if you want that you are being self righteous? Do you advocate, then, wanting to live in sin? You can have it either way but not both at once.

No one lives a sinless life therefore no one is being slammed for wanting to do so.

 

[Duskey]

Roman 7

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do

1 john 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Roman 7 seem not agree with 1 john 3.

Paul hate what he do.
Paul hate sin but do sin?

John say whosoever born of God not commit sin.

Is that mean Paul not born of God? I don't know, but I notice Paul hate sin though do sin.
Non believer do sin and not hate sin.

Start with hate sin make us less and less sin, and more and more holy.

When Holy Jesus in our heart, we start hate sin, but not free from sin, take time to grow.

People that say, I will rob the bank, anyway jesus die for my sin not hate sin and not save.

You seem to be associated with a multitude of bank robbers and murderers.