Replacement theology.

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Nov 23, 2013
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Strictly speaking, Jesus first coming was only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8)

We gentiles were without Christ during his first coming (Ephesians 2:11-12)

So when you read verses like the following

Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 1:
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

It is important not to anticipate revelation and insert Paul's revelation of the mystery into such verses. His people always refer to Jews.

After Paul was revealed the mystery, he never said we gentiles murdered Jesus.

Instead, he stated 2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Christ first coming was for Israel only. But God had a plan hidden in him since the start of time, that thru Israel's rejection and crucifying of their Messiah, salvation can also go to the gentiles.
Salvation came to the gentiles because the wicked Jews were in charge of spreading the gospel to the world so God took them out and gave the kingdom to the good Jews and gentiles. The wicked Jews thought gentiles were sub-human and not worthy of salvation. They thought salvation was for the Jews only.
 

tribesman

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Oct 13, 2011
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I agree with this also. It is no different than christians supporting Muslim schools, or really a false christian church. I believe it is Satan distorting the truth, and many Christians fall head strung.
You are very right about that. Some christians are very naive about Hamas and other palestinian radicals. They don't understand that they themselves are the next targets of these people, once they're done with the jews. Those ecumenical clergy people who like to hang out with imams and the local mosques; they don't know what they're doing. Hence, one wrong does not make another wrong right. Both are downhills.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Salvation came to the gentiles because the wicked Jews were in charge of spreading the gospel to the world so God took them out and gave the kingdom to the good Jews and gentiles. The wicked Jews thought gentiles were sub-human and not worthy of salvation. They thought salvation was for the Jews only.
Not exactly, the prophetic timetable was that Israel was to be saved first.

Once the nation repented and accept Jesus as their Messiah, Israel will be a holy nation and all of them will be priests who will then spread the message of salvation to all gentile nations.

You already quoted Exodus 19:3-6 elsewhere in this thread. Zechariah 8 has the perfect illustration of this process.

3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

4 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.

5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

followed by the last verse of the chapter, that showed every Jew being a priest to the gentiles

23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

I think you are probably thinking about Peter's reaction to the vision in Acts 10. Peter was legitimately confused by God there. Israel has just stoned Stephen, the first martyr after the cross. Israel was in rebellion.

Yet, he was told by God to go to the gentiles, which was not what the prophetic timetable had planned.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The lost sheep of the house of Israel are Jews OR Gentiles WITHOUT a shepherd. The house of Israel is the house of spiritual Israel not the God hating Israel.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Not exactly, the prophetic timetable was that Israel was to be saved first.

Once the nation repented and accept Jesus as their Messiah, Israel will be a holy nation and all of them will be priests who will then spread the message of salvation to all gentile nations.

You already quoted Exodus 19:3-6 elsewhere in this thread. Zechariah 8 has the perfect illustration of this process.

3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

4 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.

5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

followed by the last verse of the chapter, that showed every Jew being a priest to the gentiles

23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

I think you are probably thinking about Peter's reaction to the vision in Acts 10. Peter was legitimately confused by God there. Israel has just stoned Stephen, the first martyr after the cross. Israel was in rebellion.

Yet, he was told by God to go to the gentiles, which was not what the prophetic timetable had planned.
There were saved Gentiles throughout the Old Testament times.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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There were saved Gentiles throughout the Old Testament times.
Yes, but they were saved by converting to Judaism, either thru marriage or thru undergoing circumcision. That was the only way gentiles could be saved in time past. (Exodus 12:48)

Esther 8:17 stated

And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

Cornelius was saved without becoming a Jew.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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Yes, but they were saved by converting to Judaism. That was the only way gentiles could be saved in time past. (Exodus 12:48)

Esther 8:17 stated

And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

Cornelius was saved without becoming a Jew.
When was the term "judaism" created? And what kind of "judaism" did gentiles of old convert to? These are interesting questions. By any stretch, I can't think it plausible to speak of a "gentile church", let alone "gentile judaism" in the days of old. No, as one united people, they'd all be seen as (one) Israel. There would be no difference in NT times. This "gentile church" thingy is really prolly an oxymoron.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Yes, but they were saved by converting to Judaism, either thru marriage or thru undergoing circumcision. That was the only way gentiles could be saved in time past. (Exodus 12:48)

Esther 8:17 stated

And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

Cornelius was saved without becoming a Jew.
Where do find Judaism in the Bible? Judaism is a satanic religion that mixes Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism with Christianity. Yes Christianity is what the Old Testament is.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Do you guys who think the Jews are Gods chosen people, do y’all understand that Christianity has been in existence since Adam. The Old Testament saints didn’t practice a different religion than we do, they were Christians just like us.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Where do find Judaism in the Bible? Judaism is a satanic religion that mixes Kabbalah and Jewish mysticism with Christianity. Yes Christianity is what the Old Testament is.
As I already stated, in time past, Israel was God's favored nation.

Practically the entire bible, from Genesis 12 to Acts, followed by Hebrews to Revelation, is about the Israel.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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When was the term "judaism" created? And what kind of "judaism" did gentiles of old convert to? These are interesting questions. By any stretch, I can't think it plausible to speak of a "gentile church", let alone "gentile judaism" in the days of old. No, as one united people, they'd all be seen as (one) Israel. There would be no difference in NT times. This "gentile church" thingy is really prolly an oxymoron.
You don't agree that gentiles needed to convert to become Jews in the OT, to be saved? (Exodus 12:48)
 

tribesman

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Oct 13, 2011
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You don't agree that gentiles needed to convert to become Jews in the OT, to be saved? (Exodus 12:48)
I never said that I don't agree that gentiles had to convert. It's the term "judaism" and what you put in it that I was asking about. Exodus 12:48 does not use either the word "jew" or "judaism". Now, let's see if you have an answer to my question.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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As I already stated, in time past, Israel was God's favored nation.

Practically the entire bible, from Genesis 12 to Acts, followed by Hebrews to Revelation, is about the Israel.
Nothing could further from the truth. There are two Israel’s in the Bible, the God hating flesh descendants and God loving spiritual descendants and the biggest majority of the Bible is written about the spiritual descendants.

A good rule of thumb to decipher which Israel a passage in the Bible is talking about is if it’s talking about stiff necked rebellious Israel or cursings, then its flesh Israel. If it’s talking God loving obedient Israel or blessings, then it’s talking about spiritual Israel.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I never said that I don't agree that gentiles had to convert. It's the term "judaism" and what you put in it that I was asking about. Exodus 12:48 does not use either the word "jew" or "judaism". Now, let's see if you have an answer to my question.
Okay, if you don't like the term Judaism, gentiles had to become Jews in order to be included in the covenant that God had with Israel during the OT. (Esther 8:17)

Would that be more acceptable to you?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Nothing could further from the truth. There are two Israel’s in the Bible, the God hating flesh descendants and God loving spiritual descendants and the biggest majority of the Bible is written about the spiritual descendants.

A good rule of thumb to decipher which Israel a passage in the Bible is talking about is if it’s talking about stiff necked rebellious Israel or cursings, then its flesh Israel. If it’s talking God loving obedient Israel or blessings, then it’s talking about spiritual Israel.
Which part of the OT would describe the 2 Israels that you are believing in?
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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Okay, if you don't like the term Judaism, gentiles had to become Jews in order to be included in the covenant that God had with Israel during the OT. (Esther 8:17)

Would that be more acceptable to you?
A bit better. And what did that mean in practice, as you see it, other than circumcision and keeping in with all commandments that applied?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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A bit better. And what did that mean in practice, as you see it, other than circumcision and keeping in with all commandments that applied?
Well, let's just say that I believe if an adult male gentile, during the OT, was actually willing to undergo physical circumcision, which was very likely only done by Jews during that time, he would have little reason not to desire to follow the rest of the Law of Moses. ;)
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Which part of the OT would describe the 2 Israels that you are believing in?
Spiritual Israel:
Zec 2:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Flesh Israel:
Exo 33:5 (KJV) For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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Well, let's just say that I believe if an adult male gentile, during the OT, was actually willing to undergo physical circumcision, which was very likely only done by Jews during that time, he would have little reason not to desire to follow the rest of the Law of Moses. ;)
Sort of painstakingly, yes. :) Anyway, these fellas were counted as jews and was one Israel with their fellow israelites. And that same principle of one Israel, one people of God, follows on into the NT. There was/is no "gentile Israel" or a "gentile church".

Interesting reference to Exodus 12:48 by the way. This mentioning of sojourners being circumcised brings to mind the Peshitta, which I think have the word "proselytes" instead of strangers, sojourners. In that perspective, israelites were told not to oppress the proselyte.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Spiritual Israel:
Zec 2:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Flesh Israel:
Exo 33:5 (KJV) For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.
So basically, anything from the OT that talk about good things to Israel, you regard that as spiritual, while anything from the OT that criticized Israel, you regard that as flesh Israel?