IS SIN A CHOICE?
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"who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will"
YES!!!!!! HE DOES, EVEN PEOPLE THAT HE KNOWS WILL NEVER COME TO A SAVING KNOWLEDGE. HE KNOWS THEY WILL BACKSLIDE (JUST LIKE JUDAS) YET HE DEALS WITH THEM, LOVES THEM, TREATS THEM NO DIFFERENT KNOWING ALL THE WHILE THEY WILL TURN BACK.
BUT THAT DOSNT MEAN HE CREATED THEM TO GO TO HELL!!!!!! JUST BECAUSE HE IS GOD AND KNOWS THE END FROM THE BEGINNING
COME ON MAN!!!! IT'S AS PLAIN AS THE NOSE ON YOUR FACE.
YES!!!!!! HE DOES, EVEN PEOPLE THAT HE KNOWS WILL NEVER COME TO A SAVING KNOWLEDGE. HE KNOWS THEY WILL BACKSLIDE (JUST LIKE JUDAS) YET HE DEALS WITH THEM, LOVES THEM, TREATS THEM NO DIFFERENT KNOWING ALL THE WHILE THEY WILL TURN BACK.
BUT THAT DOSNT MEAN HE CREATED THEM TO GO TO HELL!!!!!! JUST BECAUSE HE IS GOD AND KNOWS THE END FROM THE BEGINNING
COME ON MAN!!!! IT'S AS PLAIN AS THE NOSE ON YOUR FACE.
no, your posts are gubaly gook.....terrible lies.....can't desern your left hand from your right etc....
That's fine but I read in Matthew 8 about some pigs that had more sense than some people. Those pigs wouldn't put up with the devil!!!
Tossing pearls to pigs never works.....they trample the precious truth of God under foot because it does not tickle their ears.
Sometimes you just have to shake the dust.
Sometimes you just have to shake the dust.
here let's read what the bible says about Judas so we can confront your lies:
Matt 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
verse 4 shows Judas was one of the 12 that received..... 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot
Are you saying that Jesus gave the power of the Holy Ghost to a man without saving faith to cast out devils and heal sickness?
notice the further reading in the chapter:
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:—8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.—16 Behold, I send you forth as SHEEP
does this sound like a man without saving faith?
let us read on:
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
ARE YOU TELLING US THAT GOD WILL FILL A MAN WITHOUT SAVING FAITH WITH THE HOLY GHOST AND SPEAK THROUGH HIM.
I AM REALLY CURIOUS TO SEE HOW YOU WILL "WREST THE SCRIPTURES" ON THIS
40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN V40 IF JUDAS DIDNT HAVE SAVING FAITH?
HOW COULD A MAN WITHOUT SAVING FAITH HAVE A PART IN THE MINISTRY AND APOSTLESHIP?
CANT YOU SEE HOW YOUR DOCTRINE DOSNT LINE UP WITH SCRIPTURE?
Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Judas was promised a throne in heaven together with the other apostles, how if he didn't have saving faith?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28
the fact is Judas chose to walk away just like you and I can
JUDAS could not have been a devil from the beginning the bible is plain about this.
I just proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that Judas cast out devils
Mark 3:22-26 (KJV)
22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Jesus just said the devil cant cast out the devil
Matt 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
verse 4 shows Judas was one of the 12 that received..... 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot
Are you saying that Jesus gave the power of the Holy Ghost to a man without saving faith to cast out devils and heal sickness?
notice the further reading in the chapter:
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:—8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.—16 Behold, I send you forth as SHEEP
does this sound like a man without saving faith?
let us read on:
20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
ARE YOU TELLING US THAT GOD WILL FILL A MAN WITHOUT SAVING FAITH WITH THE HOLY GHOST AND SPEAK THROUGH HIM.
I AM REALLY CURIOUS TO SEE HOW YOU WILL "WREST THE SCRIPTURES" ON THIS
40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN V40 IF JUDAS DIDNT HAVE SAVING FAITH?
HOW COULD A MAN WITHOUT SAVING FAITH HAVE A PART IN THE MINISTRY AND APOSTLESHIP?
CANT YOU SEE HOW YOUR DOCTRINE DOSNT LINE UP WITH SCRIPTURE?
Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Judas was promised a throne in heaven together with the other apostles, how if he didn't have saving faith?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28
the fact is Judas chose to walk away just like you and I can
JUDAS could not have been a devil from the beginning the bible is plain about this.
I just proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that Judas cast out devils
Mark 3:22-26 (KJV)
22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Jesus just said the devil cant cast out the devil
Your posts are so good... but
Tossing pearls to pigs never works.....they trample the precious truth of God under foot because it does not tickle their ears.
Sometimes you just have to shake the dust.
Tossing pearls to pigs never works.....they trample the precious truth of God under foot because it does not tickle their ears.
Sometimes you just have to shake the dust.
why will people be judged if God created some to go to heaven?
how could he judge sinners fairly when he created them to go to hell?
looney tunes gospel
Hebrews 9:27 (KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Going off the deep end does not help your viewpoint. All this yelling makes my teeth itch.
Guess you missed this part about Judas.......born to destruction, like Esau.......probably don't have these pages in your bible.....
16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. Acts 1: 16
Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" John 6:70
12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled John 17:12
Guess you missed this part about Judas.......born to destruction, like Esau.......probably don't have these pages in your bible.....
16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit foretold by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. Acts 1: 16
Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" John 6:70
12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled John 17:12
Toothbrush and tooth paste would go a long way
I noticed you never answered any of the questions about Judas.......lol.....because you can't
Even the texts you are quoting says Judas became.....
Judas didn't start off a devil
Please stop side stepping my questions......how could Judas have been a devil from the beginning and still cast out demons when Jesus said that is impossible to do?
Read this real slow
Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
John 13:26-27 KJV
AFTER THE SOP SATAN ENTERED JUDAS
I noticed you never answered any of the questions about Judas.......lol.....because you can't
Even the texts you are quoting says Judas became.....
Judas didn't start off a devil
Please stop side stepping my questions......how could Judas have been a devil from the beginning and still cast out demons when Jesus said that is impossible to do?
Read this real slow
Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
John 13:26-27 KJV
AFTER THE SOP SATAN ENTERED JUDAS
This is off the subject at hand, but sense you think you have all of this tied neatly with a bow, let me give you something else to chew on; Save = deliver. The unregenerate natural man's faith cannot deliver him eternally, nor can it deliver him as he sojourns here on earth. The regenerated man's faith cannot deliver him eternally, but it can deliver him as he sojourns here on earth. Let me give you a point to start from; Eph 2:8, The "faith" in this scripture, is not man's faith, but is Jesus's faith. Reference Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST. Saving faith is not man.s faith.
The first death is when we die to sin, and are quickened to spiritual life. The regenerated man/woman will not taste of the second death, which is everlasting punishment for the wicked at the last day. The regenerated child of God is judged as he sojourns here on earth by God's chastening. and at the last day is told to enter in ye good and faithful servant. God does not chasten (divine punishment) the wicked while they live their lives here on earth. but they are judged at the last day.
Psalms 73:5, They (the wicked) are not in trouble as other men; neither are they "plagued=divinely punished" like other men.
Psalms 73:5, They (the wicked) are not in trouble as other men; neither are they "plagued=divinely punished" like other men.
While I agree with your statements on our sin, the following must be dealt with, you said:
- "Even Christ faced temptation but he never gave in to it."
This is serious, serious error.
This goes directly to our proper understanding of whom Christ was in His Human Nature. Whether He was "Peccable" or "Impeccable" in that nature. While it is possible that one could be blindsided with the incorrect view of His "Impeccability", to persist in it, could have grave consequences.
Jesus Christ's humane nature was "Impeccable". It was proclaimed as "Holy" in Holy Scripture:
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus Christ therefore, in His human nature was perfect in everyway. He did not possess a "temptable nature". If He did, then He would not be that "Holy thing" and His sacrifice would be invalidated because He would not be the Lamb of God without "spot" or "blemish":
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
A temptable nature is found in man because of the fall. We as believers can be tempted because we possess a temptable nature. Christ did not. Therefore, no sin was found in Him because He was born separated from Adam and the fall. Since He possessed no "temptable nature", there was no entrance for sin, unlike us who are born in sin and can be tempted.
To see the Truth, of the heinous lie of "Peccability", we must understand two things:
First, since Christ possessed both a Divine nature and a human nature; these two natures could not coexist if the human nature was less than perfect, less than Holy. The Divine nature could have no company with a temptable nature. If Christ could be tempted, then His Human nature would be at war with His Divine nature. This is a Ludacris concept and sadly is being proclaimed in many so called churches today and has caused many to split over this Doctrine.
Secondly, the error persists due too the unfortunate translation of verses referring to our Lord. The translators did a poor job when the rendered the Greek word and it's derivations into the English word "Tempted or Temptation" While this Greek word can mean "tempted", the one doing the translation must take into account who the subject is.
The Greek word: πειράζω (pronounced: pi-rad'-zo), can mean: "Tested, Tried, Scrutinized, Proved and Tempted". (see: Strong and Thayer's work on the Greek). Let's now take a look at a couple of verses and see how they should have read:
Luke 4:2 during forty days, being tempted (tried) of the devil. And he did eat nothing in those days: and when they were completed, he hungered.
Luke_10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted (tested) him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
1Co 10:9 Neither let us make trial of the Lord, as some of them made trial, and perished by the serpents. (ASV - in the KJV both places where the ASV has "trial", the KJV has "tempted".
Heb_4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted (tested) like as we are, yet without sin.
This illustrates only a few examples from Scripture. Pray and meditate upon these things and may the Holy Spirit lead you into the Truth thereof. To continue in this lie of "Peccability", may mean you have no Savior. You are worshipping another Christ.
This is serious stuff folks, do not go along with the lie. If you belong to a church that teaches "Peccability", you should separate yourself from it, that's just how serious this is. You must have the right understanding of who your Savior is. Come out and be separate. (2 Cor. 6:17 & Rev. 18:4).
I make no apologizes for my firm stand on this issue. You either embrace the "Impeccable" Savior, Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture or you may find you have no Savior at all.
- "Even Christ faced temptation but he never gave in to it."
This is serious, serious error.
This goes directly to our proper understanding of whom Christ was in His Human Nature. Whether He was "Peccable" or "Impeccable" in that nature. While it is possible that one could be blindsided with the incorrect view of His "Impeccability", to persist in it, could have grave consequences.
Jesus Christ's humane nature was "Impeccable". It was proclaimed as "Holy" in Holy Scripture:
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus Christ therefore, in His human nature was perfect in everyway. He did not possess a "temptable nature". If He did, then He would not be that "Holy thing" and His sacrifice would be invalidated because He would not be the Lamb of God without "spot" or "blemish":
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
A temptable nature is found in man because of the fall. We as believers can be tempted because we possess a temptable nature. Christ did not. Therefore, no sin was found in Him because He was born separated from Adam and the fall. Since He possessed no "temptable nature", there was no entrance for sin, unlike us who are born in sin and can be tempted.
To see the Truth, of the heinous lie of "Peccability", we must understand two things:
First, since Christ possessed both a Divine nature and a human nature; these two natures could not coexist if the human nature was less than perfect, less than Holy. The Divine nature could have no company with a temptable nature. If Christ could be tempted, then His Human nature would be at war with His Divine nature. This is a Ludacris concept and sadly is being proclaimed in many so called churches today and has caused many to split over this Doctrine.
Secondly, the error persists due too the unfortunate translation of verses referring to our Lord. The translators did a poor job when the rendered the Greek word and it's derivations into the English word "Tempted or Temptation" While this Greek word can mean "tempted", the one doing the translation must take into account who the subject is.
The Greek word: πειράζω (pronounced: pi-rad'-zo), can mean: "Tested, Tried, Scrutinized, Proved and Tempted". (see: Strong and Thayer's work on the Greek). Let's now take a look at a couple of verses and see how they should have read:
Luke 4:2 during forty days, being tempted (tried) of the devil. And he did eat nothing in those days: and when they were completed, he hungered.
Luke_10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted (tested) him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
1Co 10:9 Neither let us make trial of the Lord, as some of them made trial, and perished by the serpents. (ASV - in the KJV both places where the ASV has "trial", the KJV has "tempted".
Heb_4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted (tested) like as we are, yet without sin.
This illustrates only a few examples from Scripture. Pray and meditate upon these things and may the Holy Spirit lead you into the Truth thereof. To continue in this lie of "Peccability", may mean you have no Savior. You are worshipping another Christ.
This is serious stuff folks, do not go along with the lie. If you belong to a church that teaches "Peccability", you should separate yourself from it, that's just how serious this is. You must have the right understanding of who your Savior is. Come out and be separate. (2 Cor. 6:17 & Rev. 18:4).
I make no apologizes for my firm stand on this issue. You either embrace the "Impeccable" Savior, Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture or you may find you have no Savior at all.
It is the same root word. You have chosen to alter its meaning when it refers to Christ, that is up to you. The translators were consistent at least.
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_3986.htm
Either we are never "tempted, only tested instead" or Christ was tempted as we. Or we can pick and choose what the root words mean to suit our understanding regardless of it being inconsistent. Also we should change "tempter" to tester if we continue down this path.
Youngs also agrees with strongs. The difinition is applied in one set way to the 20 verses it applies to in the New Testament.
It has it as one set definition, temptation, and is translated 19 times as such, and once as the plural. So either we and Christ were tempted or Christ and we were only tried.
Lead us not into temptation, or lead us not into testing?
With ever temptation God will provide us with a means of escape, or is it with every trial?
If I said Christ HAD sinned whilst in a moral body, indeed you would be right to rebuke me.
I said no such thing however. I have offered scripture that backed up my understanding, and you yours. Clearly we interprate them differently.
I am not debating you further. You have clearly stated your understanding, and I have stated mine.
We are saved by faith in the SINLESS son of God. I think we both have that covered.
I wish you well and say God bless you. Catch you on another thread, another time maybe.
Hi just saw your post and I get the essence if what you mean definitely..coz jesus was tempted but never sinned.
So being tempted just means one is presented with the opportunity to sin...that isnt a sin in itself many situations...but actually yielding to the temptation is the sin.
The other situation is when we can have deceitful/evil desires within us that can generate the desires to want something that we shouldn't be wanting...yet one can be enjoying the experience of those desires within without acting it out..like sexual lusts,vengeful fantasies ect...
Well that's my little 2 pennies worth😊😊[/QUOTE]
So being tempted just means one is presented with the opportunity to sin...that isnt a sin in itself many situations...but actually yielding to the temptation is the sin.
The other situation is when we can have deceitful/evil desires within us that can generate the desires to want something that we shouldn't be wanting...yet one can be enjoying the experience of those desires within without acting it out..like sexual lusts,vengeful fantasies ect...
Well that's my little 2 pennies worth😊😊[/QUOTE]
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Yes, totally, Jesus was tempted in the wilderness because he was hungry. it is no sin to want to eat bread!!!
But if he had given in he would have sinned because Gods will was that Christ not use His power unless it was directly as God commanded and not to satisfy his flesh.
In the garden His flesh and mind wanted anything but the cross, He was tempted to seek a way out of Gods will but He did not give in. It is no sin to be tempted not to want to experience pain!!!!
But every time He chose not to give in to temptation when it was a temptation that went against Gods will. He learned obedience by the things He suffered. He had never had anything weak like a human body which could want things when it was not in the timing or will of God. A desire to rest when God says go on, a desire to eat when God says fast. It wasn’t that he desired sinful things but that He learned His flesh was naturally weak though His spirit was always willing - and thankfully overcame - resisting to the point of shedding blood even.
So he didn’t sin. He wasn’t tempted by evil things like murder and adultery. But he was tempted in every way like we are none the less. We can be tempted by good things as well as evil things. Christ could not be tempted by evil things. But He was tempted in normal ways and refused to give in when it meant going against the will of God. In the case of the bread, he was tempted because His human body would have wanted food As he had fasted 40 days. Common sense!
But in this instance He knew it would be sin to act against his conscience knowing God dos not want power used in that way so he resisted.
The devil offered Him all the kingdoms of the earth... it wasn’t wrong for Jesus to want them. They were His and He was here to set them free from Satans rule and reign. Satan offered an easy way and I am sure Jesus flesh was tempted not to have to go to the cross. not a sin not to want to be tortured and murdered. But the condition of worshipping Satan did not tempt Him. That was the evil.
anyway I am waffling on. You said it really well already. Thanks 🙏
Yes, totally, Jesus was tempted in the wilderness because he was hungry. it is no sin to want to eat bread!!!
But if he had given in he would have sinned because Gods will was that Christ not use His power unless it was directly as God commanded and not to satisfy his flesh.
In the garden His flesh and mind wanted anything but the cross, He was tempted to seek a way out of Gods will but He did not give in. It is no sin to be tempted not to want to experience pain!!!!
But every time He chose not to give in to temptation when it was a temptation that went against Gods will. He learned obedience by the things He suffered. He had never had anything weak like a human body which could want things when it was not in the timing or will of God. A desire to rest when God says go on, a desire to eat when God says fast. It wasn’t that he desired sinful things but that He learned His flesh was naturally weak though His spirit was always willing - and thankfully overcame - resisting to the point of shedding blood even.
So he didn’t sin. He wasn’t tempted by evil things like murder and adultery. But he was tempted in every way like we are none the less. We can be tempted by good things as well as evil things. Christ could not be tempted by evil things. But He was tempted in normal ways and refused to give in when it meant going against the will of God. In the case of the bread, he was tempted because His human body would have wanted food As he had fasted 40 days. Common sense!
But in this instance He knew it would be sin to act against his conscience knowing God dos not want power used in that way so he resisted.
The devil offered Him all the kingdoms of the earth... it wasn’t wrong for Jesus to want them. They were His and He was here to set them free from Satans rule and reign. Satan offered an easy way and I am sure Jesus flesh was tempted not to have to go to the cross. not a sin not to want to be tortured and murdered. But the condition of worshipping Satan did not tempt Him. That was the evil.
anyway I am waffling on. You said it really well already. Thanks 🙏
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