PREVENIENT GRACE: AN ARMINIAN ERROR

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throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#1
Strange bedfellows , Arminianism and Calvinism.
“Total Inability” is the belief that all humanity is born incapable of willingly coming to Christ for salvation even in light of the Holy Spirit wrought truth of the Gospel, unless God graciously works to empower the will of lost man (effectually by way of regeneration for the Calvinist, and sufficiently by way of “prevenient grace” for the Arminian).

“Prevenient grace” is simply a term for the grace of God that goes before, prepares the way, enables, assists the sinner’s repentance and faith (conversion). According to classical Calvinism this prevenient grace is always efficacious and given only to the elect through the gospel; it effects conversion. According to classical Arminianism it is an operation of the Holy Spirit that frees the sinner’s will from bondage to sin and convicts, calls, illumines and enables the sinner to respond to the gospel call with repentance and faith (conversion). Calvinists and Arminians agree, against Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism, that the sinner’s will is so depraved and bound to sin that it cannot respond positively to the gospel call without supernatural grace
Roger Olson.

.
However the scriptures say different .
Dr. Olson makes the same fundamental error of our Calvinistic brethren by assuming one’s bondage to sin equals a moral incapacity to humble himself and confess this bondage in light of the truth plainly made known by the gospel. As far as I can tell, this is never taught in scripture but is merely theological baggage presumed upon the text.

In contrast to Olson, I would contend that it is by the means of the Holy Spirit inspired gospel that God directly works within man’s hearts prior to their acceptance and/or rejection of the appeal made by that gospel. In fact, I believe that is what the scripture is contending when it says:

Heb 4
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 tim 3
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16¶All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Rom 10.17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
John 6
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Is another work of divine grace, besides that which the gospel accomplishes, needed to enable the lost to respond?

“…these [scriptures] have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.”

Must we muddy the waters by suggesting that God, at some unknown point in the life of everyone, has to move in some other gracious way to enable all people to respond to the already gracious, powerful, Holy Spirit wrought truth of the gospel? What text necessitates such complex theological explanations? Why create a redundant theological term when the biblical word is more than sufficient? The GOSPEL is God’s enabling grace and the ONLY reason some do not have “ears to hear” is if they have become blinded or calloused against it because they have continually closed their eyes to the truth (John 12:39-41; Acts 28:23-28). There is nothing in scripture, as far as I can tell, which suggests men are born in such condition that would prevent them from responding to “the double edge sword” of the Holy Spirit’s soul piercing gospel truth (Heb. 4:12).

What say you ?

Excerpts taken from soteriology 101 .
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#2
Strange bedfellows , Arminianism and Calvinism.
“Total Inability” is the belief that all humanity is born incapable of willingly coming to Christ for salvation even in light of the Holy Spirit wrought truth of the Gospel, unless God graciously works to empower the will of lost man (effectually by way of regeneration for the Calvinist, and sufficiently by way of “prevenient grace” for the Arminian).

“Prevenient grace” is simply a term for the grace of God that goes before, prepares the way, enables, assists the sinner’s repentance and faith (conversion). According to classical Calvinism this prevenient grace is always efficacious and given only to the elect through the gospel; it effects conversion. According to classical Arminianism it is an operation of the Holy Spirit that frees the sinner’s will from bondage to sin and convicts, calls, illumines and enables the sinner to respond to the gospel call with repentance and faith (conversion). Calvinists and Arminians agree, against Pelagianism and semi-Pelagianism, that the sinner’s will is so depraved and bound to sin that it cannot respond positively to the gospel call without supernatural grace
Roger Olson.

.
However the scriptures say different .
Dr. Olson makes the same fundamental error of our Calvinistic brethren by assuming one’s bondage to sin equals a moral incapacity to humble himself and confess this bondage in light of the truth plainly made known by the gospel. As far as I can tell, this is never taught in scripture but is merely theological baggage presumed upon the text.

In contrast to Olson, I would contend that it is by the means of the Holy Spirit inspired gospel that God directly works within man’s hearts prior to their acceptance and/or rejection of the appeal made by that gospel. In fact, I believe that is what the scripture is contending when it says:

Heb 4
12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 tim 3
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16¶All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Rom 10.17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
John 6
63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Is another work of divine grace, besides that which the gospel accomplishes, needed to enable the lost to respond?

“…these [scriptures] have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.”

Must we muddy the waters by suggesting that God, at some unknown point in the life of everyone, has to move in some other gracious way to enable all people to respond to the already gracious, powerful, Holy Spirit wrought truth of the gospel? What text necessitates such complex theological explanations? Why create a redundant theological term when the biblical word is more than sufficient? The GOSPEL is God’s enabling grace and the ONLY reason some do not have “ears to hear” is if they have become blinded or calloused against it because they have continually closed their eyes to the truth (John 12:39-41; Acts 28:23-28). There is nothing in scripture, as far as I can tell, which suggests men are born in such condition that would prevent them from responding to “the double edge sword” of the Holy Spirit’s soul piercing gospel truth (Heb. 4:12).

What say you ?

Excerpts taken from soteriology 101 .
I join myself neither to Calvin or Arminius. I understand what they both missed. But that is not the theme of this thread. "Prevenient Grace" is. So after reading the scriptures I find that;
  • The FAITH needed for salvation is a gift (according to the grammar of Eph.2:8)
  • Peter could not recognize Who Christ was unless it was revealed to him by God (Matt.16:17)
  • An evil tree is incapable of producing good fruit. It will ALWAYS tend to evil (Gen.1:11-12; Matt.7:17-18)
These constrain me to think of prevenient grace. But ...
  1. God makes His selection based on foreknowledge (1st Pet.1:2). This implies that should a man be given full freedom of will, he would have chosen God and His way
  2. Men hold the Truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (Rom.1:18-20). This implies having the truth intellectually but willfully setting it aside - a sure sign of an active and functioning free will
But the question is; Does this functioning free will have the power to understand, conceptualize and visualize Christ so that it can function unhindered? It is not gladly heard among men the opinion of God that "... the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). That is, can this wicked Tree ever change its fruit without a change in nature? One noted expositor likened man to a snowball. It can only go downhill, collect more of itself and end at the bottom. It needs not only grace to stop this trend, but an act of POWER. 2nd Peter 1:3 is interesting...

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue"


 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#3
I join myself neither to Calvin or Arminius. I understand what they both missed. But that is not the theme of this thread. "Prevenient Grace" is. So after reading the scriptures I find that;
  • The FAITH needed for salvation is a gift (according to the grammar of Eph.2:8)
  • Peter could not recognize Who Christ was unless it was revealed to him by God (Matt.16:17)
  • An evil tree is incapable of producing good fruit. It will ALWAYS tend to evil (Gen.1:11-12; Matt.7:17-18)
These constrain me to think of prevenient grace. But ...
  1. God makes His selection based on foreknowledge (1st Pet.1:2). This implies that should a man be given full freedom of will, he would have chosen God and His way
  2. Men hold the Truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (Rom.1:18-20). This implies having the truth intellectually but willfully setting it aside - a sure sign of an active and functioning free will
But the question is; Does this functioning free will have the power to understand, conceptualize and visualize Christ so that it can function unhindered? It is not gladly heard among men the opinion of God that "... the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). That is, can this wicked Tree ever change its fruit without a change in nature? One noted expositor likened man to a snowball. It can only go downhill, collect more of itself and end at the bottom. It needs not only grace to stop this trend, but an act of POWER. 2nd Peter 1:3 is interesting...

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue"
holding the truth in unrighteousness is key there . Faith is not THE gift in Eph 2 according to the context of ephesians chapters 1 and chapters 2 And the sentence structure as even explained by John Calvin .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#4
I join myself neither to Calvin or Arminius. I understand what they both missed. But that is not the theme of this thread. "Prevenient Grace" is. So after reading the scriptures I find that;
  • The FAITH needed for salvation is a gift (according to the grammar of Eph.2:8)
  • Peter could not recognize Who Christ was unless it was revealed to him by God (Matt.16:17)
  • An evil tree is incapable of producing good fruit. It will ALWAYS tend to evil (Gen.1:11-12; Matt.7:17-18)
These constrain me to think of prevenient grace. But ...
  1. God makes His selection based on foreknowledge (1st Pet.1:2). This implies that should a man be given full freedom of will, he would have chosen God and His way
  2. Men hold the Truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (Rom.1:18-20). This implies having the truth intellectually but willfully setting it aside - a sure sign of an active and functioning free will
But the question is; Does this functioning free will have the power to understand, conceptualize and visualize Christ so that it can function unhindered? It is not gladly heard among men the opinion of God that "... the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). That is, can this wicked Tree ever change its fruit without a change in nature? One noted expositor likened man to a snowball. It can only go downhill, collect more of itself and end at the bottom. It needs not only grace to stop this trend, but an act of POWER. 2nd Peter 1:3 is interesting...

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue"
Peter was revealed something specific to him at that time . Thats as much as we should take from that verse . It would be inductive reasoning to go further with that text .
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#5
holding the truth in unrighteousness is key there . Faith is not THE gift in Eph 2 according to the context of ephesians chapters 1 and chapters 2 And the sentence structure as even explained by John Calvin .
Grammar takes precedent. It is a Law of language. Without it, language cannot accurately transmit ideas. But is the context against FAITH being a GIFT? Ephesians Chapter 1 has;

2 "Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ - GIFTS
3 God... who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 God ... hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, ...
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 ... his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
...
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."


Are these not all the above GIFTS? The context of Ephesians 1 is a God Who supplies His things to His People for His PURPOSES!
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
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#6
Peter was revealed something specific to him at that time . Thats as much as we should take from that verse . It would be inductive reasoning to go further with that text .
I would respectfully disagree. Paul saw a vision at his conversion. But even above this, our Lord said to Peter that what he saw was not given by flesh and blood. This seems to me to be all-encompassing.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#7
I join myself neither to Calvin or Arminius. I understand what they both missed. But that is not the theme of this thread. "Prevenient Grace" is. So after reading the scriptures I find that;
  • The FAITH needed for salvation is a gift (according to the grammar of Eph.2:8)
  • Peter could not recognize Who Christ was unless it was revealed to him by God (Matt.16:17)
  • An evil tree is incapable of producing good fruit. It will ALWAYS tend to evil (Gen.1:11-12; Matt.7:17-18)
These constrain me to think of prevenient grace. But ...
  1. God makes His selection based on foreknowledge (1st Pet.1:2). This implies that should a man be given full freedom of will, he would have chosen God and His way
  2. Men hold the Truth in UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (Rom.1:18-20). This implies having the truth intellectually but willfully setting it aside - a sure sign of an active and functioning free will
But the question is; Does this functioning free will have the power to understand, conceptualize and visualize Christ so that it can function unhindered? It is not gladly heard among men the opinion of God that "... the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). That is, can this wicked Tree ever change its fruit without a change in nature? One noted expositor likened man to a snowball. It can only go downhill, collect more of itself and end at the bottom. It needs not only grace to stop this trend, but an act of POWER. 2nd Peter 1:3 is interesting...

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue"
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#8
Grammar takes precedent. It is a Law of language. Without it, language cannot accurately transmit ideas. But is the context against FAITH being a GIFT? Ephesians Chapter 1 has;

2 "Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ - GIFTS
3 God... who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 God ... hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, ...
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 ... his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
...
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."


Are these not all the above GIFTS? The context of Ephesians 1 is a God Who supplies His things to His People for His PURPOSES!
The ' elect' in 1 Peter are Jews . The same here .
2 Timothy 2:10 (NKJV), “Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they ALSO may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”​
Who were/are “the elect” for whom Paul was willing to suffer with much hardship?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#9
Grammar takes precedent. It is a Law of language. Without it, language cannot accurately transmit ideas. But is the context against FAITH being a GIFT? Ephesians Chapter 1 has;

2 "Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ - GIFTS
3 God... who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 God ... hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, ...
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 ... his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
...
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all."


Are these not all the above GIFTS? The context of Ephesians 1 is a God Who supplies His things to His People for His PURPOSES!
All of those are speaking of the things given AFTER being in him . Eph 2 8 is referring to how all these things were given. THROUGH FAITH BY GRACE NOT THROUGH WORKS .
To say Faith is a gift means that we are not saved by our faith which comes by hearing the word of God. The word of God not being sufficient. That a super natural additional grace is needed . I don't see this in the scriptures.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#10
I would respectfully disagree. Paul saw a vision at his conversion. But even above this, our Lord said to Peter that what he saw was not given by flesh and blood. This seems to me to be all-encompassing.
All you can say is Peter had this occurrence. No where does it say " And like wise everyone else ...." This is Inductive reasoning.
I would respectfully disagree. Paul saw a vision at his conversion. But even above this, our Lord said to Peter that what he saw was not given by flesh and blood. This seems to me to be all-encompassing.
Paul saw a vision , blinding lights ect , Jonas a big fish . John the Baptist leaping in the womb . Does this mean likewise everyone has the same experience?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#11
I would respectfully disagree. Paul saw a vision at his conversion. But even above this, our Lord said to Peter that what he saw was not given by flesh and blood. This seems to me to be all-encompassing.
Paul was not disobedient to the heavenly vision. When people hear God's word it has power ,but people can resist and do resist.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#12
Peter was revealed something specific to him at that time . Thats as much as we should take from that verse . It would be inductive reasoning to go further with that text .
It was not just Peter who needed his eyes opened. Jesus came to give sight to the blind. He said,

The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has
sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,

Luke 4:18

More so than physical sight, is Spiritual sight.

Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Isaiah 35:5

Luke 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#14
It was not just Peter who needed his eyes opened. Jesus came to give sight to the blind. He said,

The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has
sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free,

Luke 4:18

More so than physical sight, is Spiritual sight.

Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Isaiah 35:5

Luke 24:25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

28 As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther. 29 But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”
Why would he call them foolish and slow to believe. Today its faith not by sight but by hearing the word of God . He marvels at their unbelief in other places. This shows an expectation given the signs and them already following the Father. The sheep ( Jews ) The Sheep ( Jews) the ones he only came for during his earthly ministry. He said he would be lifted up attract ( draw ) all men unto him . This through him being the light of the world . His inspired apostles, the Holy Spirit , The Holy Spirit wrought Word of God . The Gospel .
 

throughfaith

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#15
Sheep = Jews . Show me a sheep in that context who's a gentile. A sheep is someone already following the father . A gentile was not Lost let alone a sheep . He was a dog .
Eph 2.11-12
Mat 15.27
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#16
Why would he call them foolish and slow to believe. Today its faith not by sight but by hearing the word of God . He marvels at their unbelief in other places. This shows an expectation given the signs and them already following the Father. The sheep ( Jews ) The Sheep ( Jews) the ones he only came for during his earthly ministry. He said he would be lifted up attract ( draw ) all men unto him . This through him being the light of the world . His inspired apostles, the Holy Spirit , The Holy Spirit wrought Word of God . The Gospel .
It is Spiritual sight which is superior and necessary, and I already mentioned that.

You are not born with it. You are born dead to God. The need is to be born again. You don't do that of yourself, either.

I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed,"
and no one can say, "Jesus is LORD," except by the Holy Spirit."
1 Corinthians 12:3
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#17
It is Spiritual sight which is superior and necessary, and I already mentioned that.

You are not born with it. You are born dead to God. The need is to be born again. You don't do that of yourself, either.

I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed,"
and no one can say, "Jesus is LORD," except by the Holy Spirit."
1 Corinthians 12:3
Has 1 cor 12.3 anything to do with believing the Gospel?
1¶Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#18
Has 1 cor 12.3 anything to do with believing the Gospel?
1¶Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant
Why would, or how could, anyone believe Jesus is Lord apart from believing the gospel?

I have to go out for blood work now. See you later :)
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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#19
Why would, or how could, anyone believe Jesus is Lord apart from believing the gospel?

I have to go out for blood work now. See you later :)
its about spiritual gifts . The abuse of spiritual gifts.
 

throughfaith

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#20
It is Spiritual sight which is superior and necessary, and I already mentioned that.

You are not born with it. You are born dead to God. The need is to be born again. You don't do that of yourself, either.

I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed,"
and no one can say, "Jesus is LORD," except by the Holy Spirit."
1 Corinthians 12:3
Its an assumption without validation that we are born unable to respond to the Holy Spirit wrought word of God .