Rev 11, The (Two Witnesses) Will Rule The Tribulation By Plagues And God's Judgement

[cv5]

Pinocchio's nose is growing again

The 144,000 are preaching the everlasting gospel, in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and they aren't Christian's?

Now that's a big Pinocchio (FairyTale)

Revelation 14:3-7KJV
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

John the Baptist was preaching Christ and he was not a Christian. Correct?

Gotchya....!

 

[Journeyman]

Here is your thinking;

""Your belief that two future prophets will kill their enemies is contrary to the teachings of Jesus, so your interpretation is wrong.""

Your thoughts are in conflict with the word.

You are at a crossroad big time.

For some reason you resist such a no brainer.
Then proceed to Streisand the the dynamic into a staircase of nonsense.

THEY (THE 144K) DESTROY THEIR ENEMIES.
Such a vivid clear declaration of Gods word.

.......but you have some need of reframing a dangerous book.

But when I point out that killing our enemies is contrary to everything Jesus taught while salvation is still available to them, you have no answer. You ignore Christ's teachings by your misunderstanding of symbology.

 

[Truth7t7]

John the Baptist was preaching Christ and he was not a Christian. Correct?

Gotchya....!

Once again, the 144,000 are preaching the everlasting gospel on earth, in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, they are believing Christian's and followers of Jesus Christ that the preach, the (Church) present on earth.

 

[Journeyman]

I suspect you also deny that Moses/Aaron and the plagues of Egypt were literal historical events?

Already answered. Anyone who believes the 2 lampstands standing before the Father are for the purpose of destroying men doesn't know God very well, if at all.

 

[cv5]

By all means, please give your (Deeper) definition of the Greek word (Apostasia) in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 below, that's translated as (Falling Away) in the English KJV below?

Waiting?

2 Thessalonians 2:3KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:3
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: [a]for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that[b]that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

More correctly stated THE departing....

 

[Truth7t7]

2 Thess 2:3
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: [a]for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that[b]that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.

More correctly stated THE departing....

(Departure AKA Rapture)?

Your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture is 100% (False)

The Greek word used is (Apostasia), the root word for the English word (Apostasy) as Strongs below defines this as (Defection From The Truth)

Amazing how far one will go in (Defecting From Truth) Apostasy

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia
Strong's
Red Letter
ἀποστασία
Transliteration

apostasia (Key)
Pronunciation

ä-po-stä-se'-ä (Key)
LISTEN
Part of Speech

feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647)
Greek Inflections of ἀποστασία
Dictionary Aids

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

 

[cv5]

Once again, the 144,000 are preaching the everlasting gospel on earth, in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, they are believing Christian's and followers of Jesus Christ that the preach.

Sorry man you just don't get it. Preaching Christ does not automatically make you a Christian. In fact one could argue that any number of OT prophets including Moses were preaching Christ.

Again I say, Christians are a distinct and specific group started at Pentecost and ending at the Rapture aka the midnight cry when Christ could come at any moment to pick up his Bride for the consummation (huppa), where Jesus brings His Bride to His Fathers heavenly house. Read John chapter 14. This is exactly what Christ is talking about.

Furthermore this is a one and done phenomenon. There are no stragglers trickling in. None before Pentecost none after the Rapture.

 

[cv5]

(Departure AKA Rapture)?

Your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture is 100% (False)

The Greek word used is (Apostasia), the root word for the English word (Apostasy) as Strongs below defines this as (Defection From The Truth)

Amazing how far one will go in (Defecting From Truth) Apostasy

Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia
Strong's
Red Letter
ἀποστασία
Transliteration

apostasia (Key)
Pronunciation

ä-po-stä-se'-ä (Key)
LISTEN
Part of Speech

feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647)
Greek Inflections of ἀποστασία
Dictionary Aids

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

Wrong. Read on buddy. Triple redundancy my friend and all in one chapter.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-pre-trib-rapture.188798/page-15#post-4095977

When will you accept this doctrine for it is surely true......

 

[Absolutely]

My friend, I would urge you to study this series. You have some very common errors in your eschatology. I am guessing this is due to erronious teaching at your Church.

Tragically I am calling it quits at the Church I was attending. Pastor admitted he was amillenialist. That is a heresy IMO. He swallowed the reformer errors hook line and sinker. IMO he thinks a lot of the OT are Jewish myths. He does NOT believe the fallen angels flood scenario. He emailed me a paper he wrote. Basically he opines that fallen angels were an intertestamental period myth. I am guessing he believes in the higher criticism garbage too.

BTW... his latest sermons betrayed his total failure in understanding the Scriptures. I instantly recognized this because...I do understand them.

Kicking Israel to the curb (willfuly) has its ramifications......BLINDNESS.

Yes,ones eschatology will effect many dynamics of ones walk,definition,victory, and circumspection.

Like missler,I am blessed to have been exposed to solid teachers.
(Not so much to unlearn lol)

 

[Truth7t7]

Sorry man you just don't get it. Preaching Christ does not automatically make you a Christian. In fact one could argue that any number of OT prophets including Moses were preaching Christ.

Again I say, Christians are a distinct and specific group started at Pentecost and ending at the Rapture aka the midnight cry when Christ could come at any moment to pick up his Bride for the consummation (huppa), where Jesus brings His Bride to His Fathers heavenly house. Read John chapter 14. This is exactly what Christ is talking about.

Furthermore this is a one and done phenomenon. There are no stragglers trickling in. None before Pentecost none after the Rapture.

Sorry Man, there is only one people in Gods eyes the (Church) dual covenant theology Jew/Gentile is a false teaching

No Old testament believer preached the Gospel in the death, burial, and resurrection to salvation in Jesus Christ.

The future 144,000 believing, saved Christian's will preach the everlasting gospel.

Sorry Man

 

[Truth7t7]

Wrong. Read on buddy. Triple redundancy my friend and all in one chapter.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-pre-trib-rapture.188798/page-15#post-4095977

When will you accept this doctrine for it is surely true......

Your claim is (False) read it from Strongs in bold red below.

Your claim 2 Thess 2:3 (Falling Away) represents a future pre-trib rapture is pinocchio's nose>>>>>>>>> is growing again>>>>>>>>>>

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

 

[cv5]

Your claim is (False) read it from Strongs in bold red below.

Your claim 2 Thess 2:3 (Falling Away) represents a future pre-trib rapture is pinocchio's nose>>>>>>>>> is growing again>>>>>>>>>>

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

Truly you have not convinced me in the least of one single solitary point of your doctrine. Total fail man. Don't be afraid come into the light.

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy– literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

Departure is a perfectly acceptable translation depending upon the context. And in this case it fits perfectly because we have triple redundancy saying the same thing!

 

[Truth7t7]

Truly you have not convinced me in the least of one single solitary point of your doctrine. Total fail man. Don't be afraid come into the light.

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy– literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

Departure is a perfectly acceptable translation depending upon the context. And in this case it fits perfectly because we have triple redundancy saying the same thing!

(Departure AKA Rapture)

No departure dosent translate into a pre-trib rapture that you tried to push earlier, are you going to deny your claim in bold red above?

Departure or Falling Away is from the truth, apostasy, not a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven, as you falsely claimed.

2 Thess 2:3 silences your claim of a pre-trib rapture, as the church will be present on earth to see the antichrist revealed.

 

[Blain]

No false accusations, its opinion

Blain you push the exact same playbook as dispensationalism, and only a minority push the teaching that (Apostasia) falling away suggest a pre-trib rapture.

I have shown you clearly, that in 2 Thess 2:1-4 these verses destroy the teaching of a pre-trib rapture, (Gone)

The Church will be present on earth to witness the Man Of Sin revealed

You have went so far as stating, the passage seen below wasnt directed to the Church

How can you have a simple debate, if a person cant acknowledge that the scripture was written to the Church of the Thessalonians.

It States clearly, the Church isnt going anywhere, until the 1.) (Apostasy) takes place, and 2.) the Man Of Sin/Antichrist is revealed

(Pre-Trib Rapture Is Gone)

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4KJV
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

No I don't play by the same rules as yolu, What I was talking about had nothing to do with the rapture the reason I refused to answer you is because you refused to answer cv5's question and refused to answer my requestion on proving that rightly dividing the word is false and deception. And also I already told you that if you read the entire book of Thesselonions you see he is speaking to these people in particular because at that they were also waiting and watching for these things because even then they hoped for his return

So like I said to you before if you cherry pick a verse or two to make it fit into whatever you want i9nstead of looking at the whole picture and understanding the context then yes it would appear to destroy it but appearances can be deceiving
So again instead of claiming my understanding is false on rightly dividing the word dispensensationalism or whatever you want to call as false and deception prove it and I will do as you ask but if you aren't willing to prove your stance when I was the first one to request it to you then why would I do that for you?

 

[cv5]

(Departure AKA Rapture)

No departure dosent translate into a pre-trib rapture that you tried to push earlier, are you going to deny your claim in bold red above?

Departure or Falling Away is from the truth, apostasy, not a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven, as you falsely claimed.

2 Thess 2:3 silences your claim of a pre-trib rapture, as the church will be present on earth to see the antichrist revealed.

Deny my claim? No I'm here to reaffirm my claim that "THE departure" aka Rapture precedes the man of sin being revealed. Which Christ clearly indicates in John chapter 14.

 

[cv5]

(Departure AKA Rapture)

No departure dosent translate into a pre-trib rapture that you tried to push earlier, are you going to deny your claim in bold red above?

Departure or Falling Away is from the truth, apostasy, not a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven, as you falsely claimed.

2 Thess 2:3 silences your claim of a pre-trib rapture, as the church will be present on earth to see the antichrist revealed.

Still waiting on your reply to my post # 104.

 

[Truth7t7]

No I don't play by the same rules as yolu, What I was talking about had nothing to do with the rapture the reason I refused to answer you is because you refused to answer cv5's question and refused to answer my requestion on proving that rightly dividing the word is false and deception. And also I already told you that if you read the entire book of Thesselonions you see he is speaking to these people in particular because at that they were also waiting and watching for these things because even then they hoped for his return

So like I said to you before if you cherry pick a verse or two to make it fit into whatever you want i9nstead of looking at the whole picture and understanding the context then yes it would appear to destroy it but appearances can be deceiving
So again instead of claiming my understanding is false on rightly dividing the word dispensensationalism or whatever you want to call as false and deception prove it and I will do as you ask but if you aren't willing to prove your stance when I was the first one to request it to you then why would I do that for you?

When your ready to put (Emotions) in your pocket, and ready to debate, just let me know, the horse is dead.

 

[Truth7t7]

Deny my claim? No I'm here to reaffirm my claim that "THE departure" aka Rapture precedes the man of sin being revealed. Which Christ clearly indicates in John chapter 14.

We Will Strongly Disagree, The Horse Is Dead.

Your claim is (False) read it from Strongs in bold red below.

Strongs (Apostasia): Defection From Truth, Apostasy, Falling Away, Forsake

Your claim 2 Thess 2:3 (Falling Away) represents a future pre-trib rapture is pinocchio's nose>>>>>>>>> is growing again>>>>>>>>>>

Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.

 

[Truth7t7]

Still waiting on your reply to my post # 104.

Your post has been answered, to claim otherwise means pinocchio's nose is gonna grow again.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647)

"Strong's [under G647 ^ - apostasion ]
ἀποστάσιον apostásion, ap-os-tas'-ee-on; neuter of a (presumed) adjective from a derivative of G868; properly, something separative [...]"

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G647&t=KJV [scroll down to see Strong's]



___________________________________

[and that is just a RELATED word to the one we find in 2Th2:3, which word Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon (1871) says, "later form for apostasis" ... from apo [G575] stasis [*G4714]--and which "apostasis" means "a standing away from [away from a previous STANDING], or 2. DEPARTURE or removal from"]

[ *G4714 - stasis/stasin - "a standing" -- see this word in Hebrews 8:9, its 9th occurrence of 9x total - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/9-8.htm (compare its 9th occurrence here in Heb8:9 to its other 8 occurrences, and see how distinctly it is used in THIS ONE VERSE, grasping its context)]



"THE DEPARTURE" is a perfectly legit translation in 2Th2:3... but one must understand what is meant by [in the bold--->; a reference to the IMMEDIATELY PRECEDING verse (speaking of a TIME PERIOD of much duration, not 24-hr day), NOT v.1! (a singular EVENT)]
"3 that day will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* and [distinctly, the second item...]..." .
It was the TIME PERIOD that Paul was telling them not to believe "IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]" [FROM VERSE 2!] (not the EVENT of v. 1, which would make NO SENSE for Paul to write them a letter concerning, and is not v.2's Subject).